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Seth Riggs, Brett manning , Melissa Cross.

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harsh13
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Guys i've been working with these trainers for few months now. I suppose i would want to know if anyone of u is following them? if yes then how did ur experience go. Also if their is anybody else u found better than them???

I've been blindly following them n i think it really works for me but still i wanted to confirm the facts here.

Thanks

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brett manning gets a fair share of criiticsm around here. I think noone really dares criticize seth riggs because of michael jackson, even though his methods might not be very popular around here ;)

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well seth riggs and brett manning both teach speech level singing, which is quite a safe neutral vocal style. It could be argued some of the principals are a bit outdated.. but then melissa cross is on the other end of the spectrum! extreme screaming and such. I know people who've had results from all of the above so if it's working for you, keep going! it's all about decideing how you want to sound

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i think all of these programs have merit one way or another..... but if you're a d.i.y., you have to get to a point where you start to figure all of this out for yourself.

after a few years it becomes a matter of refining things and experimentation. figure out for your own body and voice what works and what doesn't.

my workout borrows from so many different programs....

and i have to say dan has one the greatest bits of advice ....sing...sing.....sing

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There's nothing that can replace having a vocal coach

to shape your voice and prevent injury. So when doing

one of the commercial CD/DVD programs, I'd suggest

doing them as a supplement(NOT as a replacement) to your voice lessons.

A lot of people don't like Brett Manning, but if he's got

so many famous singers as clientele, he must be doing

something right.

He was even vocal coach and judge on a CMT show called "Can You Duet?".

Other vocal coaches include:

Eric Arceneaux

Dena Murray

Ken Tamplin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZGaxscWLbc

Robert Lunte

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbkI_NS9erQ

Cari Cole

Cari Cole's tutorial (34 videos) is here:

If you're supplementing your voice lessons with a CD/DVD program,

I would suggest only doing one system at a time. Do them one at a

time until you are finished and move on to the next one. Keep what

you found useful. Throw out everything else.

Over time, vocal coaches custom make their own system to deal

with any issues that their clients have. Don't necessarily except

advice from one coach to be compatible in a system taught by

another coach.

At the end of the day, your vocal coach needs to be

able to fix problems and shape your voice in a way that helps you

accomplish whatever goals you have set for yourself.

A good book for learning the technical aspects of the singing and speaking voice

is "The Voice Book" by Kate Devore. Many practical exercises for the

topics covered in most chapters.

In addition, you can also try a vocal workout CD. I use "The Contemporary Singer: Elements of Vocal Technique" by Anne Peckham 6 days a week (1 day for rest). There's also "Vocal Warm-Ups" by Hal Leonard. Lastly, Amazon.com has some vocal workouts available for digital download.

Lastly, don't necessarily equate vocal lesson quality with money.

Just because someone is expensive doesn't mean they're the best.

Don't think that you can buy your way into a good voice.

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There's nothing that can replace having a vocal coach

to shape your voice and prevent injury. So when doing

one of the commercial CD/DVD programs, I'd suggest

doing them as a supplement(NOT as a replacement) to your voice lessons.

A lot of people don't like Brett Manning, but if he's got

so many famous singers as clientele, he must be doing

something right.

He was even vocal coach and judge on a CMT show called "Can You Duet?".

Other vocal coaches include:

Eric Arceneaux

Dena Murray

Ken Tamplin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZGaxscWLbc

Robert Lunte

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbkI_NS9erQ

Cari Cole

Cari Cole's tutorial (34 videos) is here:

If you're supplementing your voice lessons with a CD/DVD program,

I would suggest only doing only system at a time. Do them one at a

time until you are finished and move on to the next one. Keep what

you found useful. Throw out everything else.

Over time, vocal coaches custom make their own system to deal

with any issues that their clients have. Don't necessarily except

advice from one coach to be compatible in a system taught by

another coach.

At the end of the day, your vocal coach needs to be

able to fix problems and shape your voice in a way that helps you

accomplish whatever goals you have set for yourself.

A good book for learning the technical aspects of the singing and speaking voice

is "The Voice Book" by Kate Devore. Many practical exercises for the

topics covered in most chapters.

In addition, you can also try a vocal workout CD. I use "The Contemporary Singer: Elements of Vocal Technique" by Anne Peckham 6 days a week (1 day for rest). There's also "Vocal Warm-Ups" by Hal Leonard. Lastly, Amazon.com has some vocal workouts available for digital download.

Lastly, don't necessarily equate vocal lesson quality with money.

Just because someone is expensive doesn't mean they're the best.

Don't think that you can buy your way into a good voice.

Don't vest too much credibility into what 'celebrity' clients teachers claim to have taught. It might count for something in certain situations, but as an insider, let me tell you... its mostly hype. Sure, these people may have taken a lesson or 2 with these teachers, but some voice teachers over blow the significance purely for marketing reasons. The response they want you to have is exactly the response stated here... A lot of this stuff only means that someone came in for 1 or 2 lessons, or had a phone call with someone, or they helped someone warm up back stage on one night... it usually is exaggerated.

Having had 'celebrity' clients like this myself, I can tell you, they make up the vast minority of your clients and they usually come in for 1 or 3 lessons and you never see them again because they are touring and frankly, most are not as disciplined as real students of singing technique.

Fudged lists of 'celebrity' clients is so low on the list on what really gives a teacher credibility. What really counts is:

1. does the teacher lead by example and can they actually sing and demonstrate the techniques they are teaching?

2. Is the teacher published, regularly writes blogs and is a contributor to the greater educational lexicon of singing technique, or is all their energy going into marketing? (that is the problem that SS has got themselves into).

3. Does the teacher teach bridging & connecting skills... the ability to bridge registers and sing convincing in the head voice... if not, your totally wasting your time.

4. Does the teacher have a viable methodology, or training content that enables you to train... not just read a book, but really train and get results quickly.

5. Is the coach available to answer questions within reason for a busy voice coach ... or is customer service just a complete joke after you have made your purchase?

6. Is the coach always innovating, coming up with new ideas and is open to new ideas... in an effort to push their pedagogy forward, or are they stuck in their ways and too arrogant to evolve and improve what they are doing?

7. Can your teacher give you amazing results in about 4-6 weeks. Most people, with a good teacher and training content, should be able to get big results in about 4-6 weeks... if not, something isn't right.

The video above is me singing. This is me teaching...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGcZr3l3Bw0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BPz97iT_KQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBlsTvHAwQ

The top coaches in the business that meet this criteria in the business right now are myself & other TVS teachers, CVI, Tamplin, Vendera and Kevin Richards. And God knows, there are a lot of other great coaches that are friends of mine, but I feel like these teachers above are all teaching with the same spirit and goals in mind for students. Melissa is an innovator, but her training is all about 'screamo', distortion sounds... its not really about learning to sing, its more about vocal distortion effects that you can learn at TVS or CVI as well. SS & SLS is ok for beginners I guess? Thats all I can say about it and that is just my very honest and I believe, qualified opinion on the matter.

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A lot of this stuff only means that someone came in for 1 or 2 lessons, or had a phone call with someone, or they helped someone warm up back stage on one night... it usually is exaggerated.

Having had 'celebrity' clients like this myself, I can tell you, they make up the vast minority of your clients and they usually come in for 1 or 3 lessons and you never see them again because they are touring and frankly, most are not as disciplined as real students of singing technique.

LOL....I never thought of it that way.

Somehow I'm not surprised that one night of warming up a singer can possibly turn into a marketing ploy.

But if a singer is touring, why would they not be disciplined about singing technique?

Aren't they worried about their vocal health throughout the tour?

Why even bother taking vocal lessons if you're not serious enough to take the teacher's advice?

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I am generalizing here, but you have to consider it from this perspective for sure. Voice coaches are not only for learning how to sing, but often times for people with more experience, voice coaches are for staying in shape. So meeting with a voice coach for 1-2 days and/or warming up, I think is very common, to just get a tune up.

But you better believe it, some teachers will milk that and it can become a bit of an exaggeration. Someone's success in the music business is due to many, many factors... the possible voice coach they have trained with is only one factor.

Someone like Miley Cyrus, who Brett Manning claims to have trained, is not likely training every Saturday with Brett. More likely, Brett worked with her when she was a little girl for a handful of lessons, or helped her warm up when she was in Nashville one evening and that's about it. I do not know, it is only my educated guess in the case of Miley Cyrus and Brett. I could be dead wrong about this and if I am, Im happy to have someone from the SS camp correct me, but my educated guess is that something like this, is more likely.

This does not take away from Brett as a voice coach. I think Brett is a good voice coach and knows what he knows and is no dumby about how to teach people to sing ... whether it be Miley Cyrus or Milly across the street.

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1. does the teacher lead by example and can they actually sing and demonstrate the techniques they are teaching?

This, right here, was the stand-out phrase, to me, and means a lot. Singing well and teaching well are two different skills. And not always translate well to other endeavors. Bear with me a moment. I've known some good electricians who can't teach it. Their personality is all wrong and they seem intent on ticking everyone off. Some macho thing, I guess. Others teach it for a living, from a book and have no idea how to apply it, doing well only on single concepts. I am both a good electrician and a good teacher of electrical work, two separate skills. Whatever I would teach a beginner is something I can do and, just as importantly, I know they can do. They just need some guidance and little support at the right time. It's more about leading to the good things than constantly trying to stop what is wrong.

Just because I am a success at both electrical work and teaching electrical work does not mean that I could carry that into singing teaching, though knowing the separateness of the skills is a good place to start. There are a number of good singers that would probably stink at teaching. Because they have an image in their mind that others may not relate to. Or they can't describe the idea or feelings. They may have even had instruction and training but that still does not mean that they could teach it to others well enough to be a success or a benefit to student singers.

A coach make some sounds. A number of the coaches mentioned can make sounds and effects on open or semi-occluded vocalises. It's another thing to put that into singing a song. A song is in motion. Changing articulation and breath management. Your live video of "Child in Time" is a good example. It's not just the attention to phonation or the ability to do that souful rasp you have, things that can and often are practiced, singly. It's the marriage of all of those, guided by the heart that wants to sing the song. While moving and presenting. Not just talking the talk but walking the walk.

And to adapt that teaching to the needs of the student, depending on the sound that they want. Some students may do well with the laryngeal dampening instruction, others might do better simply thinking "go down to go high."

You and Ken are about the only ones who can sing whole songs that not only show what it is you teach, but sing whole songs as a matter of art. And you, Robert, are not just a teacher and/or singer, you are also a songwriter. A triple threat.

And, also, the proof is in the pudding. What do the students sound like. While others may bring in clients that are already known and accomplished, basically getting some fine polis put on their voices, you take absolute unknowns and they sound spectacular. Maybe that's what is important but I can't help but value that you are also a singer (a really good one) that can teach and also writes his own originals.

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After practising a lot with other techiques (classical, SS, Estill) attending various workshops and private tuition and doing research by myself for a couple of years I finally found TVS Four Pillars Of Singing.

For now my search is over.

It is a thoroughly thought through singing system which guides you step by step and contains all what is necessary to strengthen and build your voice.

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I just saw that video of Robert singing Souls of Silence for the first time thanks to this thread. Very cool! Also I noticed the Jack Black comment haha, allow me to shed some light on that. It's not about appearance, it's that you seem to have a lot of personality, you're fun (you have a lot of expression/hand movements in that video) and to my ear you have a similar singing style as Jack Black (correct me if I'm wrong, to my untrained ear you guys sound reminiscent of each other, but of course you each have unique voices).

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Don't vest too much credibility into what 'celebrity' clients teachers claim to have taught. It might count for something in certain situations, but as an insider, let me tell you... its mostly hype. Sure, these people may have taken a lesson or 2 with these teachers, but some voice teachers over blow the significance purely for marketing reasons. The response they want you to have is exactly the response stated here... A lot of this stuff only means that someone came in for 1 or 2 lessons, or had a phone call with someone, or they helped someone warm up back stage on one night... it usually is exaggerated.

Having had 'celebrity' clients like this myself, I can tell you, they make up the vast minority of your clients and they usually come in for 1 or 3 lessons and you never see them again because they are touring and frankly, most are not as disciplined as real students of singing technique.

Very true. One of the things I really like and respect about you Rob is that you HAVE worked with some top celebs, but you so rarely mention it. Every so often I read one of your posts and there's a throwaway comment of 'when I worked with this guy' and it's a total 'woah! you worked with them?' moment... but you don't try and ride on the coattails of someone else, which would be so easy to do.

Fudged lists of 'celebrity' clients is so low on the list on what really gives a teacher credibility. What really counts is:

1. does the teacher lead by example and can they actually sing and demonstrate the techniques they are teaching?

2. Is the teacher published, regularly writes blogs and is a contributor to the greater educational lexicon of singing technique, or is all their energy going into marketing? (that is the problem that SS has got themselves into).

3. Does the teacher teach bridging & connecting skills... the ability to bridge registers and sing convincing in the head voice... if not, your totally wasting your time.

4. Does the teacher have a viable methodology, or training content that enables you to train... not just read a book, but really train and get results quickly.

5. Is the coach available to answer questions within reason for a busy voice coach ... or is customer service just a complete joke after you have made your purchase?

6. Is the coach always innovating, coming up with new ideas and is open to new ideas... in an effort to push their pedagogy forward, or are they stuck in their ways and too arrogant to evolve and improve what they are doing?

7. Can your teacher give you amazing results in about 4-6 weeks. Most people, with a good teacher and training content, should be able to get big results in about 4-6 weeks... if not, something isn't right.

Absolutely. I agree with every one of these. In particular the 'get results quickly'. Effective pedagogy should get recognisable results in the first lesson, results that the student can feel and get a positive experience from. Sure, some students progress quicker than others, but solid reliable teaching methodology tailored to each student coupled with an open progressive mind is essential from teachers.

I did Singing Success and Mastering Mix for 2 years prior to that. Personally I think a home singing course is a great idea in principle, but a hit-and-miss disaster in reality. I think you just have to have a face-to-face (even over skype) teacher to verify these things. I followed the SS/MM course to the letter, and it wrecked my voice. I then decided 'stuff this, I'm getting some real lessons'. I got lessons for a few years in SLS and it quickly revamped my voice, and gave me great facility I never thought I could achieve.

Now, after having joined the teacher training programme and as an in-training SLS teacher, I love SLS. It's utterly logical and, when applied correctly by the teacher, gets results quickly and in a healthy manner. I think Seth Riggs was immensely clever to compile this methodology in a way that is 100% objective, and (therefore, if applied correctly) is consistently effective. He has taught some fantastic singers, how many were fantastic before starting I couldn't say, but I do know that many singers like Stevie Wonder would not have achieved the range and tone they have today without Seth's tutelage. The fact he's distilled this into a teaching pedagogy that several hundred teachers across the world use with similar effects (albeit without that 40-50 years of experience, but many have decades) is further testament to this.

But, at the end of the day, he is just a man. A great man (IMO), but a man nonetheless :)

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I did Singing Success and Mastering Mix for 2 years prior to that. Personally I think a home singing course is a great idea in principle, but a hit-and-miss disaster in reality. I think you just have to have a face-to-face (even over skype) teacher to verify these things. I followed the SS/MM course to the letter, and it wrecked my voice. I then decided 'stuff this, I'm getting some real lessons'. I got lessons for a few years in SLS and it quickly revamped my voice, and gave me great facility I never thought I could achieve.

I don't understand. You say that Singing Success "wrecked" your voice? How so? Also you are aware that Brett was a student of SLS and therefore borrowed a lot of the ideas and put them in Singing Success?

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To me, the biggest proof of teaching expertise, even moreso than having famous clients, or being able to demonstrate your own techniques, is in your ability to take any typical student and improve their voice over a reasonably period of time. If a vocal teacher can take a practically tone deaf, low voiced, mentally negative student and transform them into someone singing Gethsemane flawlessly and passionately in front of a huge audience,

Funny you should say that, for that is exactly what Robert does. And though the student wasn't a total wreck to start with, he is phenomenal. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

One of Robert's students, Will Scott, just amazing. You may never have heard of Will Scott but after this, you will not forget him. I certainly can't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KFjgc8BJWI

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Thanks a lot Ron, I appreciate your continued support. It is tiring, I must say... to try keep teaching daily, keep the pedagogy moving forward and developing, keep the product updated and on the cutting-edge, always making new videos and updating that book and then on top of that, try to find time to sing some songs for my clients, my teachers, this forum and myself. I work 7 days a week to keep it all going, its nice to see that people notice.

I really like Owen's point about results and I think he is correct in making a big deal about that. It isn't the occasional celebrity client that passes through your studio or the sickly gifted guy that comes in on occasion and everything kind of falls into place more easily, its the other 90% of students that come to me often as beginners and in very short order... they are bridging, they are singing in their head voices and it sounding amazing.

Honestly, It never ceases to amaze me at what some of my students are capable of doing in such a short period of time. I look back to my development years and I never made the kind of progress my student consistently make. Its what the average guy is able to do, day in and day out that really is the meat and potatoes in this business of voice coach credibility. The sizzle is helpful, but above all that noise about celebrities and even my own ability to make the sounds I'm teaching... it is the results that I'm getting with my clients day in and day out.

Having Training Work Flows and a methodology that makes sense for students of singing is proving to be a winner.

Thanks Nick! Nick is a very accomplished musician from Germany. He is also training to become a TVS Certified Instructor on Koln, Germany and will soon be in Seattle to wrap up his training for that. I welcome you to Seattle Nick, we are going to have a blast... then Ill go on my vacation and then we will do our Master Class in Cologne... love that city... very cool.

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I just saw that video of Robert singing Souls of Silence for the first time thanks to this thread. Very cool! Also I noticed the Jack Black comment haha, allow me to shed some light on that. It's not about appearance, it's that you seem to have a lot of personality, you're fun (you have a lot of expression/hand movements in that video) and to my ear you have a similar singing style as Jack Black (correct me if I'm wrong, to my untrained ear you guys sound reminiscent of each other, but of course you each have unique voices).

Thanks overdrive, I appreciate your input. I don't want to sound like sour grapes, but I can perform "Souls of Silence" better now... after this video, I kept working on it. It has pushed me in my growth as a singer, it has challenged me and it has kicked my ass over and over again... its a strange feeling to write your own song and have it beat you, over and over again... but lately... I'm starting to feel better about it because I have been working on strengthening my Interarytenoids to get more beef on the head tones (something that passes through to my students of course... as I experiment on myself, I apply to my students), and I am getting the rhythmic cues tighter... lastly... I feel like a complete idiot about this... I discovered the fully produced bed track for this tune in a lost folder about a week ago and it is the version I was suppose to use for this video... this bed track is ok, but it is actually a demo... the more produced track sounds better and is slightly slower, so its a bit easier.. so I may just buck up and redo it... who knows... but I have plans to do some other tunes as well soon.

Anyways, regarding the Jack Black phenomenon? That has been out there for a long time... I honestly just don't get it, but I guess its there. I love Jack Black and think he is just great. I totally get his humor about the heavy metal scene... I would like to do a comedy skit with Jack Black where he comes in for a voice lesson and he does something funny... that would be cool.

I don't mind, just as long as people dont think Im as chubby as he is...

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Very true. One of the things I really like and respect about you Rob is that you HAVE worked with some top celebs, but you so rarely mention it. Every so often I read one of your posts and there's a throwaway comment of 'when I worked with this guy' and it's a total 'woah! you worked with them?' moment... but you don't try and ride on the coattails of someone else, which would be so easy to do.

Absolutely. I agree with every one of these. In particular the 'get results quickly'. Effective pedagogy should get recognisable results in the first lesson, results that the student can feel and get a positive experience from. Sure, some students progress quicker than others, but solid reliable teaching methodology tailored to each student coupled with an open progressive mind is essential from teachers.

I did Singing Success and Mastering Mix for 2 years prior to that. Personally I think a home singing course is a great idea in principle, but a hit-and-miss disaster in reality. I think you just have to have a face-to-face (even over skype) teacher to verify these things. I followed the SS/MM course to the letter, and it wrecked my voice. I then decided 'stuff this, I'm getting some real lessons'. I got lessons for a few years in SLS and it quickly revamped my voice, and gave me great facility I never thought I could achieve.

Now, after having joined the teacher training programme and as an in-training SLS teacher, I love SLS. It's utterly logical and, when applied correctly by the teacher, gets results quickly and in a healthy manner. I think Seth Riggs was immensely clever to compile this methodology in a way that is 100% objective, and (therefore, if applied correctly) is consistently effective. He has taught some fantastic singers, how many were fantastic before starting I couldn't say, but I do know that many singers like Stevie Wonder would not have achieved the range and tone they have today without Seth's tutelage. The fact he's distilled this into a teaching pedagogy that several hundred teachers across the world use with similar effects (albeit without that 40-50 years of experience, but many have decades) is further testament to this.

But, at the end of the day, he is just a man. A great man (IMO), but a man nonetheless :)

You know Mark, its because... I don't care?! Im not a very good fan, I never have been. I don't "fan-up" about other artists. I respect them and love what they do, but they are just people like you and me and I just don't give a flying rip to stand in line for two hours to see most of these people sing. I know its strange and not the norm. Maybe since I've been doing this for so long, its just not as interesting to me.

I have had many friends and even my teachers nag me about, "Robert, you need to put some celebrity clients on your web site" and "Robert, you need to go out and try to get more celebrity clients on your web site because that will bring more people in and ... blah, blah, blah"... I know they may be right... it actually may bring in more clients that think that is the most impressive thing... but I just LOATHE name dropping. I hate belittling myself and my own studio by saying, "Look, this is what gives me credibility, a suspect list of people that I aledgedly trained... buy my products". It is one of the lamest things that I see in this business...

Look, a client is a client and I don't give a crap if its Geoff Tate or Joe Average... I just don't care! Everyone is an equal in my studio and nobody gets super special treatment above others. I don't need to name drop and exaggerate my involvement with celebrities to have credibility! I experience success stories every day, I wrote a book, I produce videos, I am a singer myself, I manage and try to mentor an International team of teachers like Nick that are all very talented, I do master classes, ... I just don't need , nor would I EVER put Miley Cyrus on my web site to get more sales. How embarrasing for those that do. Seriously? You are not confident enough in your own techniques and achievements, that you have to put Miley Cyrus all huge and animated on your home page? Its just so lame.

My apologies, I'm getting all worked up...

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Hey Keith,,, I still owe you a "Take Hold of the Flame"... I'm working on it. I worked on it again this morning about 1:30 am in my studio... but is sounded like crap, I was exhausted. But will not puss out and will get it to you.

lol, no rush man.

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Hey Overdrive, yes, I was aware of that. Just because it contains borrowed exercises doesn't make it the same. Without a teacher to guide the student to appropriate exercises at different stages in their progression, it wrecks voices. It's like sending a complete novice to the gym and being told 'use every machine', they could seriously damage themselves. But with a personal trainer, in time and with appropriate skilled guidance, the novice can become experienced, use every machine, and develop.

I hope that makes sense. In short, I feel it's SS/MM attempt to try and provide a home singing course that caused the wrecking of my voice at that time. Taken holistically I think it is radically different to SLS, because SLS advocates regular ongoing contact with a teacher in order to progress and monitor voice development.

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You know Mark, its because... I don't care?! Im not a very good fan, I never have been. I don't "fan-up" about other artists. I respect them and love what they do, but they are just people like you and me and I just don't give a flying rip to stand in line for two hours to see most of these people sing. I know its strange and not the norm. Maybe since I've been doing this for so long, its just not as interesting to me.

I have had many friends and even my teachers nag me about, "Robert, you need to put some celebrity clients on your web site" and "Robert, you need to go out and try to get more celebrity clients on your web site because that will bring more people in and ... blah, blah, blah"... I know they may be right... it actually may bring in more clients that think that is the most impressive thing... but I just LOATHE name dropping. I hate belittling myself and my own studio by saying, "Look, this is what gives me credibility, a suspect list of people that I aledgedly trained... buy my products". It is one of the lamest things that I see in this business...

Look, a client is a client and I don't give a crap if its Geoff Tate or Joe Average... I just don't care! Everyone is an equal in my studio and nobody gets super special treatment above others. I don't need to name drop and exaggerate my involvement with celebrities to have credibility! I experience success stories every day, I wrote a book, I produce videos, I am a singer myself, I manage and try to mentor an International team of teachers like Nick that are all very talented, I do master classes, ... I just don't need , nor would I EVER put Miley Cyrus on my web site to get more sales. How embarrasing for those that do. Seriously? You are not confident enough in your own techniques and achievements, that you have to put Miley Cyrus all huge and animated on your home page? Its just so lame.

My apologies, I'm getting all worked up...

No worries, you didn't come across as getting worked up. I agree wholeheartedly.

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can i go back a bit to the voice lessons "who had them, who didn't" topic for a minute folks?

i don't know why you folks don't see it the way i do.

if you were a star singer would you really think it wise to tell the public everyone you trained with, for how long, what you trained on, etc.? or to even divulge this at all?

if i was famous for vocal skill and ability i would never want to tell anyone about it...hell no! that's for me to know.

imagine for a moment an interview with robert plant (an example).....

"so robert tell us about your voice...."have you had any voice training?"

are you going to say.....

"oh yes mate over 39 years and i trained with such and such..then i went to such and such." i train every day, for 2 hours a day doing scales and such and i work my mix"....lol!

that would be a bad career move.

so the moral of the story is in bob's opinion, if you sing for a living i'll go out on a limb and say virtually everyone of the pros have had some experience with a teacher(s) or coach(es), and some even have them on the payroll.

there's is virtually no pro singer out there who can sustain a career without one at one time or another.

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