Head voice trouble (with clips)

[LuiC345]

Continuing from my previous post, I'm having trouble trying to get closure to my vocal cords, because this is one weakness I have, and I know if I don't finish this, I'm in trouble.

Now, I have clips for you to examine and give advice.

(Head Voice 2)

http://snd.sc/OeppyE

(Head Voice 1)

http://snd.sc/Oepu5s

Thank you, and I look forward to getting some great advice from the guys here. :)

[Keith]

I am not a big proponent of SLS.. However, it seems like you are suffering from a HUGE lack of support.

[MDEW]

I am not a teacher but what I have noticed in most of these posts it sounds like most people are trying to do these exorcises too soft. Like they do not want anyone to here them. I know that for me if I am trying to sing at night ,not wanting to wake anyone up, I cannot access G4 even in falsetto without a lot of strain. Because I am not loud enough.

[LuiC345]

I am not a big proponent of SLS.. However, it seems like you are suffering from a HUGE lack of support.

I'm sorry, but I'm not a big fan of the technique: support. I have to agree more with MDEW.

But I really need advice to find out how I can close my cords. I did promise I'd do this, and hoping to get advice, so I can clear this up.

[Keith]

Technique and support are what are going to get you to where you want to be. Good luck man!

[MDEW]

Support is a big part in being loud enough. Like I say I am not a teacher I am just getting to where I understand my weeknesses. We sing to be heard. At least sing as loud as you speak. Weather you know it or not when you are talking to someone across the room and you are speaking loud enough for them to hear you, you are using support.

If it is important enough for you to sing it. It is important enough to be heard. This will help in building the voice.

[Danielformica]

hey Lui I studied sls for yrs with Seth and a couple of his associates. The one thing they dont teach or tell you, only Seth seemed to with me was once you get that release you have to lean into it more and more in fullvoice. I had the same problem during my exercises I could sing crazy high but it was not that connected it was seamless but weak. What helped me was every night i was gigging 3-4 hrs and i had to sing loud rock R&b metal etc. so i think that counter balanced the light singing without me knowing it. Once i figured out i should practice like I sing Bingo i was more consistent. So do your mums googs nuhs noohs gees but dont be afraid to stay strong just try not to get to loud as you go up. Do the scale twice once in the light sound letting it bridge easily and follow it nice and strong so you feel that bridge on the first one and the second follows

[LuiC345]

hey Lui I studied sls for yrs with Seth and a couple of his associates. The one thing they dont teach or tell you, only Seth seemed to with me was once you get that release you have to lean into it more and more in fullvoice. I had the same problem during my exercises I could sing crazy high but it was not that connected it was seamless but weak. What helped me was every night i was gigging 3-4 hrs and i had to sing loud rock R&b metal etc. so i think that counter balanced the light singing without me knowing it. Once i figured out i should practice like I sing Bingo i was more consistent. So do your mums googs nuhs noohs gees but dont be afraid to stay strong just try not to get to loud as you go up. Do the scale twice once in the light sound letting it bridge easily and follow it nice and strong so you feel that bridge on the first one and the second follows

I don't know what you mean by strong... but then again don't do it loud. I'm a little confused. I mean, this is really good advice, but I'm not getting my head around it.

A guy told me that if I keep getting this airy sound, it'll be very hard to remove because of muscle memory.

Please, apart from the scales and the vocal fry into head, what could I do?

But thank you, though.

I have Singing Success, Mastering Mix and Jesse Nemitz Top 7. The tips about the high mix is now more clearer than ever... it's just the head voice and cord closure. It's really annoying me... It just won't do what I want it to do.

[Keith]

Have you thought about a skype lesson with one of those guys that wrote the SLS programs you purchased? You are most likely going to get some tips about your issue the contradicts some of the teachings of SLS. There is a vast variety of people here.

[Danielformica]

I don't know what you mean by strong... but then again don't do it loud. I'm a little confused. I mean, this is really good advice, but I'm not getting my head around it.

A guy told me that if I keep getting this airy sound, it'll be very hard to remove because of muscle memory.

Please, apart from the scales and the vocal fry into head, what could I do?

But thank you, though.

I have Singing Success, Mastering Mix and Jesse Nemitz Top 7. The tips about the high mix is now more clearer than ever... it's just the head voice and cord closure. It's really annoying me... It just won't do what I want it to do.

what I mean is do the scale in your full voice don't think about head voice just sing in one voice as you go up the scale don't get to loud in other words whatever you start with end with. Don't start breathy start with a nice onset and continue up the scale without blasting the last note. You may only get so high but as you continue it will get stronger and higher. Build your voice note by note dont just sing an F# and then try and sing a Bb above.

[chamcham]

You can't figure out how to get cord closure, yet you're

in a band and have been studying SLS since March 2010?

Cord closure is something that Brett Manning talks about

constantly in his Youtube videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/SingingSuccess/videos).

Something is definitely wrong.

I think you probably need to get voice lessons.

Someone that can give you instant feedback in person.

Skype lessons could work too.

Maybe get lessons with Robert Lunte?

I'm sure he could set you straight.

Btw, here are some Singing Success videos related to cord closure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS-eoA3Evac

I have Singing Success, Mastering Mix and Jesse Nemitz Top 7. The tips about the high mix is now more clearer than ever... it's just the head voice and cord closure. It's really annoying me... It just won't do what I want it to do.

Their response is:

[gno]

Lui - It is really light, but the 2nd clip - Head Voice 1 - sounded pretty clean and good closure. I don't hear breathiness in that one. Like others have said you need to let loose and sing loud. Surely you've yelled at someone at some point in your life haven't you? Just try yelling and turn it into singing - with the intensity of yelling. An "eh" or "oh" that would be CVT's overdrive. You gotta get out of your shell.

Try the yelling thing and make a clip and post it here. Turn up the heat a few notches!

[LuiC345]

Lui - It is really light, but the 2nd clip - Head Voice 1 - sounded pretty clean and good closure. I don't hear breathiness in that one. Like others have said you need to let loose and sing loud. Surely you've yelled at someone at some point in your life haven't you? Just try yelling and turn it into singing - with the intensity of yelling. An "eh" or "oh" that would be CVT's overdrive. You gotta get out of your shell.

Try the yelling thing and make a clip and post it here. Turn up the heat a few notches!

Actually, I HAVE tried that before, and it's done with very little effort. It didn't even hurt. But I seemed to be pulling up chest, and as the guys have said, you need this nasal resonance (or that resonace in your nose). If you lose it, you would have failed. I have been trying to do it...

And maybe Skype lessons or even a 1-on-1 could be great. In fact, I live to someone close who studies by my method. He just lives in London, and I ALMOST had him. Now, that's gone, I'm still waiting, hopefully getting that one lesson from him.

And yeah, you're right. Practise like you're singing...

Stop modifying to closed vowels on top. As in "no no no noo noo noo". Good way to experience head voice for the first time, horrible way to attempt to make it sound powerful and connected.

"eh" and "uh" vowels are your friend. They should take up the majority of your training. They may make you want to pull chest but you can avoid that easily now that you are familiar with your head voice. Get into the head voice at a convenient time but go to those vowels, work on getting cord closure on those. It will be really difficult at first, they're harder to adduct than "ee" or "oo". But it will pay off because those vowels have "chesty" or "belty" resonant qualities.

You are awesome! Maybe that is my problem. Yes, so as much as I can, I have to try to make it sound the same, without modifying the vowels. But then, when I should use the "eh" and "uh" vowels? On almost every exercise?

Thank you all by the way!

[Keith]

You should modify through your passagio al the way up. Everything you sing.

[ronws]

I think M said it best.

Lui, you need to sing like you expect someone to hear you. Quit whispering in the closet, or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

[LuiC345]

I think M said it best.

Lui, you need to sing like you expect someone to hear you. Quit whispering in the closet, or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

Good point, and I shall put that in mind. But what about the way I was taught? Do it light and right, not wrong and strong... That's what they always say.

[LuiC345]

Just want to point out on the first part, actually, absolutely nothing should resonate in your nose. Nasal resonance is just poor terminology for what is better defined as head resonance. Head resonance is actually created beneath a lifted soft palate, way up and back in the throat. People think it resonates in the nose cause they may feel sympathetic vibrations there, or they may feel like it's behind the nose, which it is. But never aim to actually send air through your nose while singing an ordinary vowel. That will lead to nasally singing, the kind of tone everybody hates. So just think up and back in the throat or up and back in the head. That's the real sweet spot you want. In everybody. You may feel other additional sensations in the face and that's what varies from person to person. But the primary focus of your placement should be at the soft palate.

For the "eh" and "uh" vowels, I would say almost every exercise. They're good coupled with an "m" or "n" onset. You can also practice modifying to them as you ascend, start with "ee" and gradually modify to "eh", or start with "oo" and gradually modify to "uh".

Thank you! Ah, I have achieved this, and done it. But sometimes, the resonance just comes out of the mouth. To keep this consistent and have this phryangeal resonance going, how could I do this?

[MDEW]

Good point, and I shall put that in mind. But what about the way I was taught? Do it light and right, not wrong and strong... That's what they always say.

Light and right does't mean not supported. Sometimes in the higher tones it takes more support to sing softly.

You have to have enough air flow to get the cords vibrating.

I am not a teacher. Others have better advice for how to use that support

[LuiC345]

Wow! Thank you!

Right now, I'm going back to Mastering Mix cd 2, and yeah, I'm getting the sound I'm supposed to get by adding some volume. However, it's just too airy, or I feel the airy sensation. Now what? You want me to keep up at the "make yourself heard, darn it!" volume, or step back?

Bear in mind, I sometimes can't tell if it's too much or just right, air escaping from my cords.

[gno]

I understand more fully now. It seems that SLS has almost scared you into thinking if you sing loud you'll endanger your voice. Think of professional opera singers. They've cultivated a technique over a few centuries that enable unbeleivable power...and...it is totally safe.

I talked with Gino Vannelli's voice coach who has a very powerful baritone voice. He demonstrated and beleive me he is fricking loud. He said his voice was just about ruined by a former teacher that told him to sing everything relaxed. He didn't want any of us to make that mistake. You can't sing with relaxed muscles. You have to learn muscle independance though, so you tense up only the muscles needed and relax others.

Pulling chest is when you are singing chest voice in the passagio area with BAD vowel placements. That will hurt your voice. Opera singers sing chest throughout the passagio really loud but with CORRECT vowel placements - and proper support. That's the way I learned and I can say it works and it is perfectly healthy. But it's hard to teach this with just text over the forum. And I don't know that SLS teaches this. Tamplin does.

[LuiC345]

Do both. Practice pharyngeal and cord closure exercises at both light and medium volumes.

You know you have too much air when you sing a note and you can hear a distinct hissing to it; you can hear air escaping that isn't being converted into sound first. It will sound like:

"aaaaaaaaaaa" <-vowel

"(hhhhhhhhhh)" <-air escaping

When there's no air escaping and you have also have good pharyngeal resonance, the hiss will be replaced with a ringing or buzzing quality, it will sound more like:

"aaaaaaaaaa" <-vowel

"(eeeeeeeee)" <-high frequency overtones

Most of the time, especially when training vocal technique, you want no air escaping.

Yes! Why are you always right? ;D

That's what's happening right now, you can hear the hhh sound. So I have to practise nays, mums, etc. then...?

But at an AUDIBLE volume then? Not massively super loud? Correct me if I'm wrong

I'm sorry if I'm a little confused, because I'm really keen and passionate on getting rid of this once and for all.

By the way, I liked your FB page and keen on checking out your music :)

[LuiC345]

I understand more fully now. It seems that SLS has almost scared you into thinking if you sing loud you'll endanger your voice. Think of professional opera singers. They've cultivated a technique over a few centuries that enable unbeleivable power...and...it is totally safe.

I talked with Gino Vannelli's voice coach who has a very powerful baritone voice. He demonstrated and beleive me he is fricking loud. He said his voice was just about ruined by a former teacher that told him to sing everything relaxed. He didn't want any of us to make that mistake. You can't sing with relaxed muscles. You have to learn muscle independance though, so you tense up only the muscles needed and relax others.

Pulling chest is when you are singing chest voice in the passagio area with BAD vowel placements. That will hurt your voice. Opera singers sing chest throughout the passagio really loud but with CORRECT vowel placements - and proper support. That's the way I learned and I can say it works and it is perfectly healthy. But it's hard to teach this with just text over the forum. And I don't know that SLS teaches this. Tamplin does.

You're kinda crossing over SLS teaching, but in reality, it's the usage of little muscles, and sure there's the effort. But not huge amounts of EFFORT or PUSH.

[LuiC345]

Wow! Thank you so much! Hopefully soon, these problems will go away and that's it by doing the exercises.

Oh yeah, I was alone in my house that time I recorded it

I understand more clearly now, thank you!

[Jens]

Here's my honest opinion... Ditch the sls/ ss training, I've been exactly like you facing the same problems.

ss/sls is a great program don't get me wrong, but the program is optimized for singers that are the opposite of you. The one's that pull and push chest to high, just look at the celebrity list they have, like 99% of em are hardcore belters who ran into trouble.

For those it works wonders, I did ss for almost 3 years and still my headvoice was a hooty mess.

Train your chestvoice high and strong, and at the same time strengthen your headvoice like crazy.

And for gods sake learn support, it's not fun but it's fun being able to do what you desire with your voice. Your closure is good on those clips, that's not your problem

Cheers

[Jens]

hahaha bob thats some creepy shit ><