Don't sing with the mouth

[DoverOs]

So today I figured out how to keep my mouth completely neutral and only sing from my throat/diaphragm. It instantly fixed my classical voice style, vibrato, and helped my popular voice style immensely. Those "may" exercises actually make sense now, because they provide a good balance between diaphragm singing and upper squeeze for the really high notes. I also would recommend using "way" instead of "may" because the W makes it easier to let off the forward mouth than the M.

When I was singing improperly, I was using my diaphragm, but I was using a strong mouth placement, which led to too much constriction.

I would say this made my voice like 3 times better. I just wish I knew this before, but that's what I get for being ignorant.

[DDisNow]

Interesting...

I usually hear that you do want the sound to resonate in your mouth behind the teeth/hard palate etc.

This is the first time I read that's it's not good to resonate in the mouth... curious to see what others say.

[Mivke]

This sounds very similar to the sensations I experienced when finding more forward placement rather than singing with my throat :p

[VideoHere]

what do you mean by "keeping your mouth neutral?"

[Danielformica]

watch stevie wonder live..He keeps his mouth very closed for most of a song.

[Jens]

my next tip is dont sing with your vocalfolds...

come on, it's not an universal tip it's a sensation that works for you but sensations dont apply to everyone. It's like saying sing with your stomach ect.

You cant not sing without your mouth, your probably describing a resonance sensation, but resonance is always constant.

low notes resonances in the chest regardless of vocal quality( be it ,chest falsetto, mix , neutral curbing overdrive) if they are a low note they resonate in the chest

middle notes in the mouth and sinues (same as above)

and high notes in the head(same as above)

here comes the fun part, low notes resonates more in the head than highnotes... It's actualy true! test this out oyurself i was baffled about it.

Put your hand on your head... now sing a resonant low note

then sing the headyest and most headresonant you can!

Wich one of these did you feel real physical vibrations from? :D

[VideoHere]

cool post jens.....in the style of jens....lol!!!!

[ronws]

I struck a deal with Satan to have the "Folds of Destiny."

:D

[Felipe Carvalho]

Instead of not singing with the mouth, which is a ridiculous and impossible proposal, how about:

Use your brain and look for instruction.

[chamcham]

:P

[DDisNow]

Seriously guys, that's why I love this forum... on what other message board will you see people seriously discussing "not singing with the mouth" :D

[Keith]

Instead of not singing with the mouth, which is a ridiculous and impossible proposal, how about:

Use your brain and look for instruction.

Lol!

[MDEW]

For years people have been tellin' me to sing with my belly not with my throat! :/ WT% Now I know what they meant I still haven't figured out how to do it but I know what they were meaning.

[Mr Bounce]

I take "not singing with the mouth" to mean, not letting excessive tension build up in the lips, tongue and jaw. This is a very important problem for me, and for most singers, so if that's what you mean then I totally agree.

[D.Starr]

This is where conflicting opinions come into play.

Don't sing with the mouth and keep it relaxed and hardly open.

Do sing with the mouth and annunciate every word.

Make sure when you sing you achieve a "bite" revealing the teeth.

Sing from the diaphragm.

I've stayed away from all these concepts and found one that suits me best.

I make sure I'm supporting. I make sure I can feel the resonance in the roof of my mouth and I just sing. I naturally open my mouth wide on notes. Some people do. I try to keep my mouth/lips elongated and not wide so I don't splat notes.

Take everything with a pinch of salt unless you know it works for you.

[Remylebeau]

my next tip is dont sing with your vocalfolds...

come on, it's not an universal tip it's a sensation that works for you but sensations dont apply to everyone. It's like saying sing with your stomach ect.

You cant not sing without your mouth, your probably describing a resonance sensation, but resonance is always constant.

low notes resonances in the chest regardless of vocal quality( be it ,chest falsetto, mix , neutral curbing overdrive) if they are a low note they resonate in the chest

middle notes in the mouth and sinues (same as above)

and high notes in the head(same as above)

here comes the fun part, low notes resonates more in the head than highnotes... It's actualy true! test this out oyurself i was baffled about it.

Put your hand on your head... now sing a resonant low note

then sing the headyest and most headresonant you can!

Wich one of these did you feel real physical vibrations from?

Low notes don't resonate in the chest and high notes don't resonate in the head (above the sinuses). Every note regardless of pitch resonates somewhere in the vocal tract (from the vocal folds up to about the sinus cavities).

What you are describing are vibrations that one feels in their bones. Doesn't mean resonance is occurring in the place where they feel the vibrations.

[Remylebeau]

"Singing with the diaphragm not the mouth" is one of the most vague things I've ever heard, and I've heard it quite a bit.

The diaphragm isn't used for singing. It's used for inhalation. Once you've inhaled, the diaphragm's job is done. You can use muscles around your abdomen to stop the diaphragm from relaxing quickly thus reducing your stream of air. This I suppose is the best explanation for "singing with the diaphragm" but it has nothing to do with your mouth.

I think the "not using the mouth" aspect has more to do with keeping your jaw out of the way, using your tongue to articulate as much as possible, and lifting the soft palate and modifying when necessary.

Anyway all of this is why I quit working with my first voice teacher after three lessons. I didn't understand a damn thing she was talking about. I made huge progress the second I started working with someone who had a real working knowledge of vocal anatomy and physiology and what each mechanism's job was, not just some vague idea of a sensation I was supposed to feel.

[VideoHere]

as you get more advanced, you start you figure your own way to succeed. a lot depends on the lyrics, the vocal sound you're going for, the note, the vowel, and other factors.

the most important thing i believe is you not visualize the sound as coming directly out of the mouth, but taking a path up (sometimes up and back) and then out the mouth much like a letter "c." (profile view, with nose on the right)

if you move your mouth and jaw too much it's constricting. if you move it too little especially in pop music, you may be misunderstood.

it's a balance.

[Guest]

"Singing with the diaphragm not the mouth" is one of the most vague things I've ever heard, and I've heard it quite a bit.

The diaphragm isn't used for singing. It's used for inhalation.

Sort of like saying the gas pedal is for driving I guess. Sure it is part of the equation; and how much or how little gas, or pressure on the pedal, will dictate how much power, speed (fast or slow) or distance you can travel on one pump. Controlling the gas, and gas pedal, is important and it can mean the difference between too much speed or too little, and accident, stalling out or even conserving or wasting fuel. But it isn't all about the gas pedal. That's not what drives the car.

[ronws]

Sort of like saying the gas pedal is for driving I guess.

Where have I heard that before?

I've stayed away from all these concepts and found one that suits me best.

I make sure I'm supporting. I make sure I can feel the resonance in the roof of my mouth and I just sing. I naturally open my mouth wide on notes. Some people do. I try to keep my mouth/lips elongated and not wide so I don't splat notes.

Take everything with a pinch of salt unless you know it works for you.

The clouds part, the sun shines, and the angels sing "Amen!"

Although some of those ideas might be good training wheels for some, at some time, eventually, you discard the training wheels, as it were.

And always, do what works for your voice, regardless of what others say. And that's the hard part. And I expect disagreement, as some believe that any voice can be made to sound like any other voice.

[Validar]

as some believe that any voice can be made to sound like any other voice.

I'm definitely not a subscriber to that notion. Training and technique can only do so much.

Let's take two singers recently mentioned on the forum here. Brian Johnson and Brad Delp. (Boston) Call me a skeptic, but I don't think there's anything in the world Johnson could do (or could have ever done) to sound like Delp.

Are there voices out there that sound remarkably similar, and a little difficult to differentiate? Absolutely. However, this doesn't negate the fact that voices are as unique as fingerprints.

Sounding like a myriad of other singers should never be one's goal, anyway. Believe me, I understand the temptation, but it's an exhausting battle that just can't be won, and will only shift your attention from achieving your own vocal identity.

Let Geoff Tate be Geoff Tate. Let Sebastian Bach be Sebastian Bach. Allow them to inspire you, but never strive to duplicate.

There's always room for another great, unique voice in this world. Why not let it be yours?

[Remylebeau]

Sort of like saying the gas pedal is for driving I guess. Sure it is part of the equation; and how much or how little gas, or pressure on the pedal, will dictate how much power, speed (fast or slow) or distance you can travel on one pump. Controlling the gas, and gas pedal, is important and it can mean the difference between too much speed or too little, and accident, stalling out or even conserving or wasting fuel. But it isn't all about the gas pedal. That's not what drives the car.

Sorry, but no. If we're using car analogies, the diaphragm has absolutely nothing to do with the gas pedal. It's used in the process of filling your tank up with gas and that's it. The amount of air pressure you use in singing has to do with exhalation not inhalation. The diaphragm does not control exhalation.

[Remylebeau]

I'm definitely not a subscriber to that notion. Training and technique can only do so much.

Let's take two singers recently mentioned on the forum here. Brian Johnson and Brad Delp. (Boston) Call me a skeptic, but I don't think there's anything in the world Johnson could do (or could have ever done) to sound like Delp.

Are there voices out there that sound remarkably similar, and a little difficult to differentiate? Absolutely. However, this doesn't negate the fact that voices are as unique as fingerprints.

Sounding like a myriad of other singers should never be one's goal, anyway. Believe me, I understand the temptation, but it's an exhausting battle that just can't be won, and will only shift your attention from achieving your own vocal identity.

Let Geoff Tate be Geoff Tate. Let Sebastian Bach be Sebastian Bach. Allow them to inspire you, but never strive to duplicate.

There's always room for another great, unique voice in this world. Why not let it be yours?

Brian Johnson and Brad Delp use/used very different techniques techniques. Johnson sings with constant distortion, because that's the sound that's appropriate for the kind of music AC/DC does. Brad Delp did not use distortion, except a tad on maybe on a note here or there. It's hard to make a determination that those two voices are so different when you can't hear them singing with the same technique.

[Jens]

I dont agree, i think the voice is less unique then we think. most of what we call our voice is learnt, speech, singing all of it is something we learned from our parents and other sources.

we can mimic sounds to a great degree, heck honestly how many guys out there are there who can sound like axl rose? there are tons, I think the "only you have your voice" is the usual fairytale we are being fed.

[Guest]

Sorry, but no. If we're using car analogies, the diaphragm has absolutely nothing to do with the gas pedal. It's used in the process of filling your tank up with gas and that's it. The amount of air pressure you use in singing has to do with exhalation not inhalation. The diaphragm does not control exhalation.

I think I have been misinterpreted. My post wasn't to say that the diaphragm is used to exhale or like a gas pedal. I was using an example to "agree" with what I quoted from you. That the diaphragm isn't used for singing. I only used an example of a gas pedal to compare. In other words "The diaphragm is used for singing. is like saying the gas pedal is used for driving." No...it's more than that.

But with that said, although the diaphragm is used for inhalation, as you say, control of it , still remains important, at least in my opinion.