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Vocal Fry Question

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Hey Guys.

For the love of god, I am not able to access my vocal fry register. Only early in the morning. For that reason, I am stuck not being able to do the edge exercises. Anyone has a solution?

1) I tried creating the most comfortable note, and then backing off on the air supply, and it just cuts the note at a certain time.

2) I tried going to the lowest note i can, and then i sometimes get it, and sometimes dont.

Here are two sound clips. One of each method... You can actually hear just air on the first method in the clip.

1) http://soundcloud.com/user206400908/vocal-fry-sustained-note/s-Ovh3J

2) http://soundcloud.com/user206400908/vocal-fry-lowest-note/s-caTsp

Hope someone can lend a hand on this issue ;)

Thanks for all your help guys! Couldn't do it without you.

VA

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Hey voc-al, I could not access your clips but I recognized myself in your explanation. I also used to only be able to access my vocal fry early in the morning and only for a while. What has really worked for me is finding the correct placement for singing, it seems my vocal fry is very related to it. Now vocal fry and my "correct tone" feel only separated by volume.

Try to warm up, sing your exercises and then warm down with some descending lip bubbles followed by a few minutes of COMFORTABLE vocal fry humming. This is what my coach had me doing and it has really developed my vocal fry to the point that I can do it almost always on demand.

Hope this helps, I'm no teacher so please have that in mind when reading my suggestion.

Good luck!

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A question for some of the more experienced.

I read things about fry being in the lower part of the voice, with the low notes being all fry.

But it sure doesn't feel like that. It feels simply like the cords are just barely starting to open, regardless of pitch.

I can sing pretty low, but fry doesn't help that at all. And doing fry is one of the few things I feel like I can do just fine.

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Felipe: To do the Edge exercises, or squeaky door like my old instructor used to call it. It helps you keep connection through the bridges. I can't do the squeaky door.

Mike: Ill most definitely try your recommendation. Thanks!

Gilad

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OK so I'm old! :( Some of you have never heard of Elmer Fudd. American cartoon character. Bugs Bunny's counterpart. He spoke in vocal fry. Look it up on Youtube.

Haha.. I can't believe we got to a point in life that people dont know who Elmer FUdd is, or was.... Dont wory MDE.. "Your not alone."

VA

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Hey Guys.

For the love of god, I am not able to access my vocal fry register. Only early in the morning. For that reason, I am stuck not being able to do the edge exercises. Anyone has a solution?

VA

VA: Forget about trying to do fry in the low range. Its not necessary at all, because fry results when the air pressure/flow are too low for modal phonation to occur.

How to do it? Pick a note that is normally in your lower-mid singing range, one that you can _always_ do.

Then, simply say that note very softly in your speaking voice, without any attempt to support the tone at all... none.

What you will likely feel is your onset will feel very deliberate, 'on the cords'. If the note is clear, you are supporting too much, so onset again, reducing the volume. As you decrease the spoken voice volume, you will get to the point that modal voice ends, and what will result is fry.

Once you find it, you can move the note downward at your discretion.

The reason fry is used as an exercise is that it won't work if air is oversupplied, or if adduction is incomplete. Most of the time, rather than working from modal to fry, we work the other way... from fry to modal, to find that minimum work required to turn a fry production to a modal one on a particular note. If you imagine that there is a transition point, that particular exercise helps the singer phonate just on the 'modal' side of the fry/modal boundary.

I hope this is helpful.

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Hi Steven!

Thanks for the advice.

Unfortunately, even after following your instructions, I go from small tone to no tone at all. no groggy in the middle.... Weird...

As I said, in the morning, I have perfect vocal fry until my voice warms up and its gone.

Thanks though.

VA

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There are certain conditions necessary so that at least a minimum ammount of relaxement is achieved. Everyone can do it, if its not hapenning, there is something getting on the way.

If you hummm, closed mouth, going for NEE, descending the tone until it breaks, does it happen? Relax as much as you can to do the nee.

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Hi Steven!

Thanks for the advice.

Unfortunately, even after following your instructions, I go from small tone to no tone at all. no groggy in the middle.... Weird...

As I said, in the morning, I have perfect vocal fry until my voice warms up and its gone.

Thanks though.

VA

VA: A few questions:

When you say... no tone at all, is the glottis open or closed? Is air escaping then, or not?

What vowel are you using, and on what note?

After you have 'warmed up', are you able to do a glottal onset, one where you shut your glottis, let a little air pressure build up under it, and then onset the note with a mild 'pop' or 'click'?

I hope this is helpful. We'll figure this out.

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Hey Steven, thanks for your amazing support :)

When I say no tone at all, from my understanding, Glottis is the whole Vocal fold system, so in my opinion its open. Air is escaping.

I used Ah...Eh....Oh....Uhh.

Didn't quite understand the pop or click. I hold my breath, and then sing a note is what you mean? If so, yes, i can do that.

Thanks!

VA

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Hey voc-al

why do you insist going from the normal voice to vocal fry? Try to do it right away. Even I who hasn't any problem with doing vocal fry, find it more challenging to go from normal voice to it, compared to doing it right away.

The other advice I can give you which worked for me: Try to imitate a motorbike's sound.

Hope it helps

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Hey Steven, thanks for your amazing support :)

When I say no tone at all, from my understanding, Glottis is the whole Vocal fold system, so in my opinion its open. Air is escaping.

I used Ah...Eh....Oh....Uhh.

Didn't quite understand the pop or click. I hold my breath, and then sing a note is what you mean? If so, yes, i can do that.

Thanks!

VA

The glottis is the space between vocal folds. The click or pop is the sound of vocal folds opening from a completely closed position. You want to start with an open position like An H sound and slowly close vocal folds to Eh sound with just enough air to make sound. The vocal fry is the cords barely getty enough air to make them move.

If you are holding your breath the glottis is starting from a closed position.

If Steven tells you something different take his advice instead of mine he is the expert.

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  • 4 months later...

Back to this issue. I really want to get my vocal fry going. When I get it once in a blue moon, it feels so good, so much control on the folds. Its weird that I am the only one who can't seem to do it.

I lower the support and there goes the tone, only air. Glottis seems fully open...

Anyone had this issue? I think this issue is also causing my high notes to sound choked, and sometimes loose tone even. Maybe I have an issue with not being able to close my chords properly... FRUSTRATING... I am sure I need the vocal fry to advance from the point I am.

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I too cannot vocal fry... only once in a blue moon. I tried "forcing" it before but that ended horrible. My vocal teacher basically said **** vocal fry, she is much more of a fan of twang.

But it would be awesome to vocal fry correctly... can someone explain some ways to learn to do it? Funny enough it shows up randomly in the passaggio area...

I would love to learn to vocal fry just to gauge my closure but most people who got it always had fry in their voice... my voice has no fry naturally it must be developed.

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Jay,

Good to know that I am not the only one carrying this frustration.

Ok, Here is a current example of the closest I can get to vocal fry. And now I have a strange burn in my throat. Nothing major, just I can feel it. Obviously its not the right way to do it.

Pretty Pathetic if you ask me :)

http://soundcloud.com/user206400908/vocal-fry-tryfeb2013/s-OHHaA

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Yeah that definitely sounds like how I "forced it" imo stop doing it! Fry is an onset meaning you shouldn't have to phonate a sound to do it... it should just come out "poppy" because of low air flow and cord connection.

I think the safest way is to do semi-occludeds and gentle cry exercises/onsets and then reduce support till the sound happens on its own. I think fry is more "discovered" than developed as I find it when practicing a lot it will randomly show up.

Hope someone can shed some light on this situation... when people who naturally have little to no fry in their voice... what is the best approach to take? For some people such as myself I think "grinding" the cords is the natural response.

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I get perfect vocal fry most of the time early in the morning, and also when I feel sick, or under the weather. I had once or twice that I did an intensive excercise session, and then after the session, i had some fry in my speaking/singing voice.

But to keep Jay's question alive:

Hope someone can shed some light on this situation... when people who naturally have little to no fry in their voice... what is the best approach to take? For some people I think "grinding" the cords it the natural response.

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JayMC, Gilad:

I think it may be useful to circle back a bit to review the physical coordinations that produce the fry.

The popping sound of the fry comes from very low exhalation force applied to a complete adduction. The adduction need not be strong, just complete, but the exhalation force must be gentle.

By way of background, there is a certain minimum amount of subglottal pressure needed to open the shut glottis, called Phonation Threshold Pressure (PTP). Its very small. Fry mode occurs when the PTP has been reached, but the exhalation force is still too low for the sustained phonation of the modal voice to appear. Put another way, there is enough to open the glottis occasionally, but not to establish the cycle of modal phonation.

So, to get the fry to appear, the individual shuts the glottis and then supplies a very small amount of breath energy to cause phonation that is not sustained.

For most persons, I find the challenge is in supplying a small enough amount of exhaltion. The mental approach to get there is not like singing, its more like very soft speaking 'right on the cords', and with the 'stay expanded' kind of support.

IMO, a good way to avoid excess exhalation force is to negate the tendency to accumulate energy in the body during the inhale. Some of this is postural, so, lay down on the floor, facing up, with a pillow under your head, and relax all the muscles you can. Some of the tendency is to over-inhale, so take the smallest possible breath, or (better yet) none at all. Yes, the fry can be done at the _end_ of a normal exhalation, just fine.

Combining all that... lay down, take a small breath, exhale, close the cords as if to cough softly, and then say the softest 'ah' you can.

The pedagogical use of the fry is to learn the sensations of complete adduction without overdoing the muscle adjustments in the larynx, and also to minimize exhalation force. As I have mentioned before, there is a very small difference in breath between the fry tone and a soft modal one. The fry is excellent for the student that tends to force the voice, overmuscling the larynx, and exhaling too hard.

I hope this is helpful.

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Hey Steven,

Thanks for jumping to the rescue here.

Ok. So I tried like you said to make a cough position no inhale and slowly try letting very little air out. I get the pop, but it comes in a single pop. no more. If i try to increase air pressure even slightly i get the tone.

In all honesty, I dont think I know how to adduct the vocal folds and keep then adducted while release slight air pressure....

Jay, any luck on your side?

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