Jump to content

Note/Tone stuck in the throat

Rate this topic


Consumingfire39
 Share

Recommended Posts

Does anybody know what causes this? I was able to sing with no strain at all for a long time yesterday and my placement never suffered. Today everything feels like it the larynx.

For a little background... I really just learned the expansion part of support yesterday (Which made all of the difference in the world) I was just staying wide under my ribs but collapsing my ribs without realizing this. My quality of singing improved about 5x right when I started doing it correctly, my larynx also stayed much lower and I realized (Once again) that what I thought tension-free singing was, in fact incorporated a lot of tension. I did end up singing a very long time but felt better than I usually feel before singing and the voice was fine when I woke up, which is very rare.

Anyways, long story short today my larynx is very neutral and I cannot really move it if I want to. Is that a good thing? Does anyone have any good exercises or ideas that get them out of this feeling? I can do any kind of drill right now with no problem but when I open up to sing, I still feel it. My support system is extremely warn out from yesterday but that should not be giving me this feeling, I don't think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may not be of any help and I really don't have any remedies or fixes based on education and such. But I do have my own experience. That said, I know that for me, many times I have to go simple. What I mean is I have to stop over analyzing things and worrying. Sometimes a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Many times I might sing and practice a lot and feel really good about it. So I do more. Then I wake up and have a bad day or two and start wondering why. Personally I have found that many times if I just stop, rest and try again in a couple of days I find I am stronger than where I left off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me everytime I have a breakthrough, its often "gone" the next day. Then I usually try to retrace my steps mentally to try to find it again, and again and so on. And after a few days you start to be able to do it on demand :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a lot of folks don't mention this but when you are seriously vocal training day after day there will a "vulnerability" in your voice which can hamper your singing.

meaning you have to accept the fact that you will have the vocalizing mess with your singing at times.

for example frisell told me that it's not unusual for young opera singers to crack when you have intense training on one hand and song singing on the other.

you may (like me) say wow, i'm really on a roll here, i don't want to stop for fear of getting stale, but that's exactly what you need to do at times.

give things a break.

as you get more experienced, you will start to sense an imbalance or a tonal change or a weightiness, a feeling like it's time to cool it for a few days.

don't forget sleep, dehydration, allergies, mood, all can mess with you too....lol!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a lot of folks don't mention this but when you are seriously vocal training day after day there will a "vulnerability" in your voice which can hamper your singing.

meaning you have to accept the fact that you will have the vocalizing mess with your singing at times.

for example frisell told me that it's not unusual for young opera singers to crack when you have intense training on one hand and song singing on the other.

you may (like me) say wow, i'm really on a roll here, i don't want to stop for fear of getting stale, but that's exactly what you need to do at times.

give things a break.

as you get more experienced, you will start to sense an imbalance or a tonal change or a weightiness, a feeling like it's time to cool it for a few days.

don't forget sleep, dehydration, allergies, mood, all can mess with you too....lol!!!

That is where I am right now. I am doing things I could never dream of right now. Learning this breathing unlocked everything and my voice just won't fatigue now at all. I have been singing full on the past 2 hours and feel like I could do 10 more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

but remeMber there's always tomorrow and not to bum you out, anticipate and accept fluctuation and bad voice days..

it's a living organ....

oh, and go reward yourself tonight.....lol!!! sometimes gains are so incrementally small but they should be treated as substantial...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is where I am right now. I am doing things I could never dream of right now. Learning this breathing unlocked everything and my voice just won't fatigue now at all. I have been singing full on the past 2 hours and feel like I could do 10 more.

That's the trap I've fallen into time and time again. When it feels really good I'm tempted to sing more and more that day - it seems like you can go forever. The fatigue doesn't set in right away, so you get fooled. It's not like lifting weights where you can only do so much before your muscles give out.

If I over-do it one day, I pay for it the next day - then I have to give myself a rest. But it always comes back. The danger is trying to "force it" back the next day - which can be detrimental.

Here's kind of a crude rule of thumb - any particular day I can sing my average amount of time, plus or minus say 75%, and still feel fine the next day. For example, if I average 1 hour per day, I could sing 1 hour 45 minutes and still bounce back fine the next day. But if I go for 3 hours, I will almost definitely need a day of rest. This is not scientific - it all depends on the material I'm singing. If I'm working on a new song with lots of high notes, that song will take a toll much faster, until I've learned it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the trap I've fallen into time and time again. When it feels really good I'm tempted to sing more and more that day - it seems like you can go forever. The fatigue doesn't set in right away, so you get fooled. It's not like lifting weights where you can only do so much before your muscles give out.

If I over-do it one day, I pay for it the next day - then I have to give myself a rest. But it always comes back. The danger is trying to "force it" back the next day - which can be detrimental.

Here's kind of a crude rule of thumb - any particular day I can sing my average amount of time, plus or minus say 75%, and still feel fine the next day. For example, if I average 1 hour per day, I could sing 1 hour 45 minutes and still bounce back fine the next day. But if I go for 3 hours, I will almost definitely need a day of rest. This is not scientific - it all depends on the material I'm singing. If I'm working on a new song with lots of high notes, that song will take a toll much faster, until I've learned it.

Thanks for the input. I will definitely keep that in mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congradulations on your breakthrough. :D Can I ask what it was thet helped you grasp the expansion part of support that you mentioned? I feel that I am still using my throat for volume control instead of my support mechanisms. :/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is preferred that the larynx stay relatively neutral, though it will move some.

And, here's a direct quote from several of the big singers of our day. Their rules of singing can be distilled down to 3 basic rules.

1. Do what your voice can do, don't do what it will not do. (my proviso, it may take you a while to figure out what it will do, so don't sell yourself short.)

2. Hydration. Especially the day before a performance.

3. Rest, and lots of it. Everyone gets to party except the singer. For the singer is the instrument.

Even the pros, if they have been off the road for 6 months to a year, retrain their breathing. In rehearsals, they "mark" their performance. That is, they don't do a full-out 2 hour blast. They may sing 5 of the songs in the set. Or parts of each. By the end of the month, they have reconditioned their bodies for a full show. Some would mention that after the first few rehearsals, they felt like someone hit them in the gut. But as long as they didn't feel pain in the throat, they knew they were training right.

And part of that is plenty of rest. Especially in muscle conditioning. In competition bodybuilding, you never work the same set 2 days in row. It is a medical fact that it can take 24 to 48 hours for muscle to repair from a workout that is either new or is heavier than the muscles were used to. That's why bodybuilders alternate muscle groups every other day. They don't do that to keep from getting bored. They do that because their doctors and trainers have learned that this is how it works.

So, hydration and rest. It is equally as important as whatever technique you work on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congradulations on your breakthrough. :D Can I ask what it was thet helped you grasp the expansion part of support that you mentioned? I feel that I am still using my throat for volume control instead of my support mechanisms. :/

Here is the process I went through with support.

First, I had heard that I need to expand the stomach and keep it out. I did that but I did it without expanding the lower ribs. I had the abdominal push without actually suspending the diaphragm. I felt like I was supporting but I was just controlling all of the air with my larynx. I actually was breathing so low that I did not let any air get into my chest at all. I was just so focused on getting the breath low and it became the only way I could breathe. I kept thinking my ribs were expanded, when in reality they were collapsed from the start and never expanding.

Here are the 3 videos I watched in succession that helped me finally understand it (Although others helped too)

--- First I did this to finally open up my chest. Even though I was a college athlete, I am a massive sloucher and never use good posture while sitting or standing. These exercises helped me open up my chest and breath.

--- Next, I watched this and really tried to understand opening up the ribs. Really try to get that side expansion. When you first do it, your abs will want to collapse but then they will start coordinating.

--- Finally, I watched all of the videos on breathing by vocal wisdom, who is a member of this forum, with special consideration and time given to this particular linked video.

Within about 30 minutes everything began coordinating and I don't feel like I could ever unlearn this. I feel like I know exactly how to build and expand off of this and it literally has changed everything. Even after that huge day of singing yesterday, I could easily sing today if I wanted to but I am taking the wisdom of many of the people with knowledge on this forum that have advised that I should rest.

You have to have the expansion in the ribs and the abdominal support. It is a very physical activity and actually makes singing much more enjoyable and physically challenging at the same time. I am sure it will become natural within time though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is preferred that the larynx stay relatively neutral, though it will move some.

And, here's a direct quote from several of the big singers of our day. Their rules of singing can be distilled down to 3 basic rules.

1. Do what your voice can do, don't do what it will not do. (my proviso, it may take you a while to figure out what it will do, so don't sell yourself short.)

2. Hydration. Especially the day before a performance.

3. Rest, and lots of it. Everyone gets to party except the singer. For the singer is the instrument.

Even the pros, if they have been off the road for 6 months to a year, retrain their breathing. In rehearsals, they "mark" their performance. That is, they don't do a full-out 2 hour blast. They may sing 5 of the songs in the set. Or parts of each. By the end of the month, they have reconditioned their bodies for a full show. Some would mention that after the first few rehearsals, they felt like someone hit them in the gut. But as long as they didn't feel pain in the throat, they knew they were training right.

And part of that is plenty of rest. Especially in muscle conditioning. In competition bodybuilding, you never work the same set 2 days in row. It is a medical fact that it can take 24 to 48 hours for muscle to repair from a workout that is either new or is heavier than the muscles were used to. That's why bodybuilders alternate muscle groups every other day. They don't do that to keep from getting bored. They do that because their doctors and trainers have learned that this is how it works.

So, hydration and rest. It is equally as important as whatever technique you work on.

Thank you.

I have found that when I support correctly, my larynx just stays neutral. I can move it around if I want to but it is does feel like it is dictating itself, like it did before. I feel like I have full control over it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have found that when I support correctly, my larynx just stays neutral. I can move it around if I want to but it is does feel like it is dictating itself, like it did before. I feel like I have full control over it.

Exactly. Another favorite author of mine, Lilli Lehmann, quoted one of her favorite singers, another soprano coloratura, as saying "when I sing, I feel as if I have no throat."

And you might be getting an inkling of what I mean by my simplistic mantra. Motion, when necessary, in the abs. Note, in the head. Nothing in the throat, ever.

The large muscle movement will be in the abs, as breath support must be agile. Note in the head is a mnemonic for resonance. Which means that there is minimal load in the throat, allowing the larynx to remain relatively neutral and the folds can do whatever it is that they need to do.

So, in my own corrective practice, when I start to feel tired and flat or straining in the throat, it is nearly always a matter of failing support. So, move the "tension" to the abs, where it belongs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...