Going from pharyngeal to raspy

[jonpall]

Hi,

How do you add a raspy sound to your pharyngeal voice?

I've heard guys say that one of the basics for raspy rock singing is the pharyngeal/twangy sounding voice, especially the high notes. But I haven't really seen it described how you can take that sound and turn it into a raspy sound, i.e. with grit/distortion. Can anyone tell me that?

I usually do it (with not that much success) by starting with a twangy sound and then just increase the volume until the sound distorts, but I have the feeling that's not the best way to do it. It's not that hard for me to sing Guns N' Roses songs like a non-raspy duck (i.e. in a pure pharyngeal voice without rasp), but frankly it sounds like shit. It would sound better with even just a hint of rasp.

Anyone?

[analog]

Jonpall....Twang more. Practice lower in your range(mid-range) and work on twanging to the extreme(pure distortion.) Play around with it. You will find a sweet spot somewhere between "quack voice" and 100% pure distortion.

Then, once you get it, start to work it higher in your range...BUT AGAIN...I would strongly recommend practicing in a comfortable range first.

Hope that helps a little.

[Robert Lunte]

Yes, a very well placed and very isolated twang contraction... to the max... will begin to change vocal mode from twang to distortion... and hyper-strong contraction in twang mode is one of several ways to create vocal distortion. Good call Analog...

Hope this helps.

[jonpall]

Well here's the thing - that sometimes works for me (twanging so hard/much that my voice distorts), but it seems to tire out some muscles in my throat because I have to do it pretty hard to bring out the rasp. So, using that way, I can only do it for a few minutes. Any remedies for that? Btw. thanks for your help and friendliness, guys.

[jonpall]

Anyone?

[dr rock]

place the back of your toung on the back upper molar teeth in your mouth. thats what cvt teach. and use support and twang, u should feel it around that area, the sound gets sharper. check it out, worked for me

[Robert Lunte]

Dr.Rock... interesting... Jonpall... if you getting tired with hyper contractions of twang then I dont think you are getting enough isolation, your pulling in extrinsic constrictor activations... you need to work on getting cleaner twang contractions and not pull in any constrictor engagements.

[markgrubb@gmail.com]

place the back of your toung on the back upper molar teeth in your mouth. thats what cvt teach. and use support and twang, u should feel it around that area, the sound gets sharper. check it out, worked for me

Daniel Zangger Borch explained the production of dist tones in a similar way (placement of edges of tongue on top of back molars; however, I do not recall if he referred to bottom or top molars).

if you getting tired with hyper contractions of twang then I dont think you are getting enough isolation, your pulling in extrinsic constrictor activations... you need to work on getting cleaner twang contractions and not pull in any constrictor engagements.

Seriously, Rob, you really have this figured out. I am so thankful and appreciative you actually delivered on your promises of significant improvements in my voice within 90 days of training with you.

This explanation matches my experience exactly.

[Martin H]

jonpall,

What everyone has said about "over-twanging" to get distortion is correct.

But there is also another aproach called "creak/vocal fry" distortion. In CVT that is when you sing between modes. And one of the modes has to be Curbing. Mostly it has a more "crispy" quality than the before mentioned aproach. Also where the "noice" or "distortion" is produced are differently.

If you are familiar with CVT, then here is a little guide:

Start on a note which feels comfortable in Curbing on the vowel "I" as in "bit, sit" - then slowly change the vowel towards "EH" as in "hey, stay" WITHOUT loosing the Curbing set-up (mainly the "hold"). Then you should be able to find the creak-distortion between Curbing and Overdrive

http://www.box.net/shared/vnm5y65rgz

[jonpall]

Thanks. Maybe some of you guys could record an example of overtwanging in an actual song (with notes in the tenor range)?

[Martin H]

Here is a little snip:

http://www.box.net/shared/srpnaf3h7z

This is not from a song. But demontrates how the "over-twang" distortion can sound in the higher range as well (like around F5):

http://www.box.net/shared/tvkepoxl70

:)

[jonpall]

Nice Martin. While I have you there, could you perhaps tell me if overtwanging like that is what Sammy Hagar does when he sings in his classic slightly-raspy tenor range, usually in the choruses? What CVT mode and effect is he using? I have the feeling it's mostly overdrive and edge, but I'm not sure. (Those are 2 questions )

I'm partly asking because I seem to have an easier time producing distortion in overdrive and edge (the loud ones) than in other vocal modes. Those modes take more energy, but on the plus side, I think that distortion sounds more "rock" and "metal" in overdrive and edge than in curbing and neutral (at least in the standard tenor range).

[Martin H]

jonpall,

Mostly he is singing in Curbing up there. And to me it sounds like he's using the creak-distortion. It gives it that slightly-raspy tone you talk about.

Like I said earlier, the two aproaches are different. The "over-twanging" will almost always be more agressive - especially if done in Overdrive or Edge...and that's probably the rock-metal sound you are refering to. Where as the creak-distortion can be more "crispy" sounding :)

[jonpall]

So can you name a few rockers that use overdrive and edge (and perhaps some distortion as well) in the tenor range? Seems like according to you, they're all using curbing To me, guys like Sammy Hagar (f.ex. the chorus in Van Halen's "Best of both worlds"), Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie James Dio and James Lugo usually have a "shouting" sound in the choruses, which should indicate overdrive or edge, right?

[Martin H]

jonpall,

Dio is definately one of them, and also listen to Freddie Mercury (there's a reason why they are considred to be more "bigger" in sound than the other you mention)

If you want that "slight distortion"...then try to play around with the creak-distortion :)

[jonpall]

Thanks a lot, Martin. I'm guessing that Jimmy Barnes is another overdrive/edge singer. Check this AWESOME vocal performance by him out:

! To me, that's a voice to die for! :)

[Martin H]

jonpall,

Actually most of that is Curbing with distortion (over-twang). But still awsome!! :)

[jonpall]

So it wasn't that loud?

[Martin H]

You can't really tell because of compressors etc. :/

But the point is to listen for the timbre/quality. Ex. even though you can't tell how loud it is...you can still hear the difference between a piano or a violin right? It's the same for distinguishing Curbing from Overdrive. :)

[jonpall]

Yeah, but to me, all those singers have a "shouty" quality in the choruses, even though I might hear a "hold" quality as well. So, could you be wrong when you say it's curbing instead of overdrive?

[Martin H]

I sure could be wrong! Though from what I hear...I still believe it's mostly Curbing Also remember that any individual have their own opinion on "shouty". Ex. the term Belting has been refered to all of CVT's modes: Neutral, Curbing, Overdrive and Edge!

To be more acurate you have to hear the singers without amplification.

EDIT: And they also use Overdrive and Edge! But mostly Curbing. - just to make that clear, it's never black or white Also: What matters is how YOU like the sound you produce yourself! So it can be Curbing or Overdrive or Edge...in the long run it doesn't matter...just as long as YOU are happy with the sound. (which also means...try all of them out LOL )

[jonpall]

Well from the video clip of yourself singing that you've posted at least once here, you can sing pretty loud, so you maybe you go "ehh, that's not shouting. Now, THIS is shouting!! *proceeds to break the windows ...*".

Just kidding Thanks for being so helpful, Martin. I appreciate it.

[Martin H]

LOL. You are welcome

Well, just play around with those two aproaches jonpall. And see where it leads you. It's all about discovering

Cheers,

[jonpall]

Will do.

[jonpall]

Martin, is this also an example of mostly curbing and when you hear rasp, is it mostly "creaking":

?

This is Steven Tyler singing Santana's song "Better". I've give anything to have a voice similar to that so I'm interested in what you think he's doing and I'm going to practise curbing today :)