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What can "your" technique offer me?

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Jamesothy
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Hi, guys! Long-time lurker, here, so I should probably thank you all for creating this fantastic resource - no other vocal forum is even comparable in scope. Especially since the forums over at Singing Success became deserted/spambotted to smithereens.

I've been studying with the Singing Success program since May, and I've taken slightly more than a handful of lessons from Brett Manning Studios over the course of the summer. My range has increased drastically (E2 [sounds like a burp, but a note's a note] to about F#5 on thinner vowels), but I'm starting to question if I'm on track to get where I want to be. My low range sounds bland, and my high range like a child throwing a tantrum. After five months, I'm not even at the point where I can comfortably sing a song without feeling like I want to throw months of work away.

I guess that brings me to the question; what can the techniques I'm reading about give me that SLS has yet to? All of these acronyms get thrown around left and right, but I can't even tell you what any of them stand for. Assuming I take Skype lessons, how long would you anticipate I'd go before seeing serious results?

For reference, I'm most interested in pop-rock/pop-punk/acoustic. Think; Paramore, Jimmy Eat World, Reel Big Fish, etc.

Thanks for any answers you can give me. This is the first forum I'm considering becoming an active member on...CONVINCE ME!!!

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A smidge over 3 octaves. That's pretty good. According to your post, it sounds like you are primarily concerned with tone, since you have all the range your actually going to need.

So, you've actually been working on your singing a whole 5 months. And feel like dropping the whole thing.

Well, I am here to tell you that it is worth working on. You'll just have to get used to that feeling. We all get it. And we all still learn new things. I have been singing longer than you have been alive and I still learn new things. Or a new way to adjust the tone of my voice. Subtle muscular shifts that align a vowel bett and the note falls right in the pocket and comes blasting out, making my ears ring. You will do the same, for the rest of your life. 5 months, a year, 2 decades, 3 decades. Time becomes irrelevant. That's why singing is forever.

You will learn about support from a number of good systems, including 4 Pillars, KTVA, Vendera's Raise Your Voice.

But I am not going to engage in another competition thread. Of holding one system over another. Or even trying to describe all the differences, as I am probably wrong.

That being said, some systems have you bridging or mixing early, some have you doing that later. I prefer the earlier bridge. Some worry more about what the larynx is doing, some worry more about tone. I prefer the latter. Some systems spend a good deal of time wit distotion, others concentrate on building your own unique tone. I prefer the latter, especially as I am not naturally good at distortion and I am too lazy to work at putting more of it in my voice and I think the one and only time I really tried is when I injured myself and then, eventually got smart enough to not do that, again.

And as you can see, there is in evidence, several students of Lunte's 4 Pillars program and they sing astounding things. That should be proof right there.

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I guess the complaint I hear about SLS is that a full, loud, meaty chest voice (and head voice) is not much part of the program. I can't say for sure since I never took the SLS program. As was stated before, Support is key. Support, along with Glottil Compression can produce much thicker fold vibrations which give you that meaty sound. I assume you've got your vowel formation down, as I cannot criticize SLS for that. KTVA is what worked for me. Others have had great success with Robert's program. You can also check out Tony O'Hora Vocal Power.

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Holy constructive posts, Batman! If this was any other voice forum, I'd be in awe.

I recommend you to learn CVT method, it will help you mastering twang (pharingeal), the hold (used to sing in mix voice) and something REALLY IMPORTANT that SLS/SS doesnt teaches you: SUPPORT. support is holding back the air with the muscles that assist the diaphragm, instead of holding back the air completely by the throat., you can sing very light and simple phrases without support, but everything else TOTALLY requires it.

Good luck :D

Is this the CVT you're referring to? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_Vocal_Technique

It sounds really...technical. Which I'm totally cool with, considering how overly simplistic SS feels. Have you taken any lessons from them? And how worthwhile is the CVT book that I'm struggling to find info on?

Oh, and thanks! I'll need it :)

And as you can see, there is in evidence, several students of Lunte's 4 Pillars program and they sing astounding things. That should be proof right there.

I'm following Rob Lunte and 4 pillars. Freaking great. No confusion whatsoever. Just progress. And it focuses on the right things, not how high you can go in whistle voice on a lip trill, but going right to developing the skills that will help you do what many singers are quick to assume is impossible - deliver a song that sits right at your passaggio and well above it, with power and stability, no register breaks, and without any strain.

Cool to hear! I think I'll give BMS a few more weeks, but if I feel that I'm not developing how I'd like, maybe I'll try a lesson with Mr. Lunte or Mr. Vendera. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be in a position where I can buy the four pillars program for at least a couple years. I guess being a college kid has its occasional downfalls.

I guess the complaint I hear about SLS is that a full, loud, meaty chest voice (and head voice) is not much part of the program. I can't say for sure since I never took the SLS program. As was stated before, Support is key. Support, along with Glottil Compression can produce much thicker fold vibrations which give you that meaty sound. I assume you've got your vowel formation down, as I cannot criticize SLS for that. KTVA is what worked for me. Others have had great success with Robert's program. You can also check out Tony O'Hora Vocal Power.

Sorry, mate. Didn't even notice your comment at first. Yeah, I'd consider that one of my largest problems - not much use to having a note if you can't get any "oomph" behind it. KTVA seems a bit out of my budget, but I'll definitely look into the others. Thanks for the suggestions!

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it's up to you. you have to want to sing the way you want to sing and do all that's required to do so.

don't leave the answers up to the program. don't make the program responsible for your success.

you are responsible. all the programs are are assistance and guidance. you have to work it.

you must work hard and read and study if you're after pro caliber vocals.

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Get a coach and study, study a lot.

Singing is not an activity that is forgiving with results less than good. And it does require a lot of trainning and discipline to get to the point of delivering a "simple song" with quality.

I have seen a lot of stuff on the particular material you are talking about that made me question the quality of it, specially because they were marketing material, which I suppose that should present the best the program should offer. The simple fact that you are second guessing it in such an early stage, is evidence enough that something is not right.

Some stuff there is not only wrong, as it is dangerous for some situations that are common on untrainned voices.

Anyways, good luck, and do approach this is a very structured and aware manner, its your voice, and you will have just this one until the end of your life. What I would do in your place, and did, is finding the best possible professional, someone that can use the technique being teached to deliver a lot of quality with the comfort and ease that technique allows, and following the instruction with as much precision as possible.

BTW, in "my technique", which not in one bit is mine, since it exists long before I was born, nothing is offered, even for the most basic step you will have to work a lot to get to it.

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it's up to you. you have to want to sing the way you want to sing and do all that's required to do so.

don't leave the answers up to the program. don't make the program responsible for your success.

you are responsible. all the programs are are assistance and guidance. you have to work it.

you must work hard and read and study if you're after pro caliber vocals.

This should be a sticky or even a banner on every page.

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I have seen a lot of stuff on the particular material you are talking about that made me question the quality of it, specially because they were marketing material, which I suppose that should present the best the program should offer.

I do completely agree with you. From what I've been told, the videos that you need a subscription to watch are basically the "free tips" that you can find on youtube, albeit expanded, with studio quality. I've never really understood the purpose to it. As mentioned in several other threads, they do a lot of strange things with marketing singers that they've only had minimal contact with, BUT Brett did coach Hayley Williams for multiple years. That gives him some mass credibility in my books. I'm just hoping she's not the exception to his methods.

Some stuff there is not only wrong, as it is dangerous for some situations that are common on untrainned voices.

What stuff is this, besides the obvious lack of teaching support? One of their previous coaches (who I only took one lesson with) tried to teach some ideas that I found a bit silly. He wanted me to be constantly exhaling as I sang scales, as in, if I put my hand in front of my mouth, I was to feel a constant stream of air. He didn't seem to understand why I was gasping for breath between scales. But maybe that's just my terrible breathing habits :/

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The answer is always on the singing. ;)

You cant teach something you dont know how to do. Maybe you will teach something else, that reminds the first closely.

To teach how sing, you have to know how to sing. You have to dominate it actually, not just sing so so.

The stuff is "compression" and, as you said, no use of support. I am aware that SLS instructors DO approach it in a way that may remotelly remind it, still never blindly. Always with a goal. Everything you work in your voice, must have a purpose and has to come from what you are doing currently. Ignoring the situation you have right now, will lead to false solutions that will hold only up to a certain point, limiting you, specially in the quality factor.

You know, something to think about... Speach Therapy uses a lot of exercises we work with, including forward placement, breath, etc... all with specific goals and cases were it should be applied. Usually, they only attend cases after you went to a doctor, and received a prescription based on you specific needs.

Why is it that to sing the voice is treated as a foreign instrument? The exercises used to train, specially the ones used for endurance and strenght, are ten times more demanding and difficult to get right than the ones used in speach therapy...

Its all the same... But people only get serious about it when they go to their doctors first :). Dont let it get to this point. Maybe you are safe doing the exercises alone and keeping stress under check, maybe. But in the minute you start to actually deliver some quality, and gigs and events start to roll, you will have no way to avoid the stress and the result... Think you can guess.

So, again, in my opinion, either you look for a specialist that is in full control of his voice and can do the task proposed, or you are better on your own aiming for comfort and without trying to reach for range or power.

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You cant teach something you dont know how to do. Maybe you will teach something else, that reminds the first closely. To teach how sing, you have to know how to sing. You have to dominate it actually, not just sing so so.

Heh, not a fan of Brett's "I can't sing well myself, but I'm a great coach" mantra, I take it? I can't say I'm big on it either. It's always weird watching him give a lesson when his student has more power than he does. Not to insult him; he's worked with some of my favorite singers, and I'm sure he's made millions through his products alone.

Please forgive me for what's probably a stupid question, but what is the scope of genres covered by Mr. Lunte or Mr. Vendera? Everything I've seen so far has been with prog, but that's not really the style I'm interested in pursuing. No offense to anyone, but I'm at that weird point where I'm starting to re-evaluate my progress and expectations. A coach with a different method might be what I need to figure out how to push past this plateau. Does anyone have examples of them working in other genres (videos, personal experience, etc)?

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