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MDEW
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At this point in my journey I can feel an obvious difference in my throat between Chest voice and Head voice.

For those of you who are beyond learning stage, Do you still feel this difference in the throat when passing from one to the other or does it feel the same when in either head or chest?

Another question does Falsetto feel the same in the throat as head other than the feel of cord closure?

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The transition becomes much smoother - and it doesn't feel that obvious. The trick is to keep the folds vibrating at the same depth from chest to head. When you acheive that it won't feel like you are suddenly in head voice. The best way to acheive that is to keep the support strong - even "goose" the support a little - when going into head AND when you are coming back down into chest. The support keeps the folds vibrating deeper.

What you'll be able to do is "morph" between chest and head at a wider range. This is what I'm working on now, so that I can even be singing like a C4 in chest, and back the volume way down, and I'm in head. But there's no sudden realization that I'm in head. It is a gradual "morphing".

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you need to realize what you're after comes with exercising and development. to be able to integrate both head and chest voice musculatures, you need to develop strength in these areas.

strength in muscles that keep the vocal folds together, increase their flexibility, and accuracy.

strength in the muscles that help control exhalation.

you will find after a couple of a few years you will develop to a point where there is only one voice and you can manipulate it any way you desire...but it comes after time.

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I think that reading Anthony Frisell helped me greatly toward the one voice thing. Because of where you control the one voice from.

as mystic as I wannabe .... :cool:

Only because you mention him. (sorry to get off topic). I have his book "The Baritone Voice." Did I get a bum copy or are all of them very poorly edited? I mean the spelling and the wording. Some of the sentences don't even make sense. There are things I have to re-read and some i have to make my best guess at what he is trying to convey. Thankfully I have a bit of smarts :D

Wassupwitdat?

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Only because you mention him. (sorry to get off topic). I have his book "The Baritone Voice." Did I get a bum copy or are all of them very poorly edited? I mean the spelling and the wording. Some of the sentences don't even make sense. There are things I have to re-read and some i have to make my best guess at what he is trying to convey. Thankfully I have a bit of smarts :D

Wassupwitdat?

Some of his more in-depth descriptions befuddled me, as well. I chalked it up to me not understanding and just not getting into a lot of techno talk in singing. But some of the larger, grander definitions are about my speed. Bob is going to be the true expert on that. He has actually had lessons with the author.

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Not that. This book is seriously flawed in editing. poor sentence structure almost to the point of not making sense. Almost? Wrong....definitely! Some paragraphs don't even make any sense whatsoever. Things like (example)

"The beard may be hot so out the oven bread burn maybe, hands the bread careful on top of the stove. Lower heat"

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Not that. This book is seriously flawed in editing. poor sentence structure almost to the point of not making sense. Almost? Wrong....definitely! Some paragraphs don't even make any sense whatsoever. Things like (example)

"The beard may be hot so out the oven bread burn maybe, hands the bread careful on top of the stove. Lower heat"

Hmm, I don't remember that. I read the book about 4 times but I don't remember that. At least in the tenor edition that I have. I have not read the baritone edition, didn't feel the need to.

Maybe that is something special just for baritones. Or it is an editing mistake.

Come to think of it, I've never really baked bread, though I have baked treats for my dog. I have baked pecan pies (really easy recipe.) I have roasted chicken in the oven. And I smoke a brisket on my charcoal grill like there ain't no tomorrow.

I guess that's not helping.

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yes, there is an overlap of infinite percentages.....

Should I start training by switching between head and chest around D4?

Very good points from all of you.

Chest voice is strong from E2-f#4....Head voice is strong from c3-D5. Support sucks. No problem with deep full breaths,lower rib cage expands can stop flow of breath without closing throat or glottis. Can hold a note for 30 seconds keeping ribs expanded. Still seems that volume control is coming from throat. Main problem with support seems to be not compressing the air for full support and power. ( not sure how)

Am I missing another factor? Am I wrong in my diagnosis?

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Very good points from all of you.

I would let your voice do it's thing, if you already know how to bridge subconsciously without thinking about it, then your "one voice" will know how and where it wants to connect.

Is the throaty volume control you're referring to deals with the head/high notes?

If so, make sure that as you go up, you're using open throat and lifting the soft palette. This makes singing/supporting/volume high up much easier.

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Throaty volume control seems to be from any mode or range. I keep hearing the phrase feel nothing in the throat

but isn't all pitch control from a contraction of the folds( I know not the folds exactly but muscles that control the folds) and isn't tilting of the larynx contractions of muscles connected to sternum, thyroid cartilage,hyoid bone,tongue and soft palet? And isn't twang a contraction of muscles controlling the epiglottis, arytenoids and pharyngeal wall? Then how can there be nothing felt in the throat? :o

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:D

Feel nothing, as in no strain or undue strain. Of course things happen in the throat.

jesus, h, christ ....

Now, we may commence with the thousand and one different ideas of when and where what kind of strain is appropriate in the throat, in what levels and for how long, when it was just a simple word.

Or go ahead and feel pain and strain. Or used the idea of feeling no pain or strain in the throat as a sign of progress and ability. Or don't. Go ahead and assume in your mind that once you no longer feel strain and some pain that you are not doing enough and need to do more to get that "worked out" feeling again. Maybe it will lead to real strain and injury.

Yeah, there's always that.

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:D

Feel nothing, as in no strain or undue strain. Of course things happen in the throat.

jesus, h, christ ....

Now, we may commence with the thousand and one different ideas of when and where what kind of strain is appropriate in the throat, in what levels and for how long, when it was just a simple word.

Or go ahead and feel pain and strain. Or used the idea of feeling no pain or strain in the throat as a sign of progress and ability. Or don't. Go ahead and assume in your mind that once you no longer feel strain and some pain that you are not doing enough and need to do more to get that "worked out" feeling again. Maybe it will lead to real strain and injury.

Yeah, there's always that.

Ron, I made that post at 3:00 in the morning after watching a 20 year old with no formal training sing G4-B4 song after song without strain or apparent force. I even asked him how much he would charge for 1 lesson. Like everyone else does he makes a motion with his hands from pelvis to head and says "nothing in the throat". :o

I do realize that you use that quote and you usually follow by saying no undo strain to clarify and that the power comes from the support.

When I first sat down to post my followup to POWEROFONE's question to me " Does the throaty volume control your referring to come from head voice?" I just wanted to say it comes from all of the notes. I cannot seem to get my abs to squeeze the air out.

But instead I went into a stream of consciousness about the feelings in my throat. I derailed my own post. MY BAD. :(

I value your input and yes I deserve a slap in the head every now and then. :D

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Hmm, I don't remember that. I read the book about 4 times but I don't remember that. At least in the tenor edition that I have. I have not read the baritone edition, didn't feel the need to.

This isn't a great example although it is one of many, many mistakes. Some paragraphs make no sense whatsoever. But they pop up quite often and more than one per chapter it seems.

This one is minor but it only took reading 2 paragraphs to already find another mistake. Here is the sentence:

"A helpful way to help a student understand the proper use of his breathing technique is to clarity the difference between ordinary breathing needs, and those necessary for singing."

The first issue is using helpful and help in the same sentence. "A helpful way to help a student understand"? "A helpful way for a student to understand," would be better. next is the misspelling of the word clarify. He has "clarity."

Just a few sentences after that one he misspells pattern and instead writes patter. Then in the same paragraph a few more sentences down he writes " The technical data give here..." The word he was looking for was "given." So far this is all on just one page. Just 2 pages later he left out the word "of" in a sentence. " After a certain amount facility is gained, the process becomes automatic and easy." There should be an "of" between amount and facility. These happen to be very minor but so far in only 38 pages I have come across many. Some whole sentences are totally out of whack and senseless.

Very poor editing. If not for what I know already and a little common sense i would be very confused at some points.

NOTE:

I just want to say that it seems like a good book so far despite the editing problems. I just happen to be a stickler for that type of stuff. :) I can still make my way thru ok and like I said, still worth it. I just wanted to make that clear....I'm not hammering the book. Only the editor.

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in the tenor book and with my lessons with him, he has a way of street talking that really drives the concept home, but he is up in age and a slight bit forgetful.

i learned a lot from that book.....especially those descending head voice slides and working a lot with the "oo" vowel.

he has a new book coming out, but he doesn't have a date yet.

b.t.w., speaking of books, lisa popeil's new book was very good.

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This isn't a great example although it is one of many, many mistakes. Some paragraphs make no sense whatsoever. But they pop up quite often and more than one per chapter it seems.

This one is minor but it only took reading 2 paragraphs to already find another mistake. Here is the sentence:

"A helpful way to help a student understand the proper use of his breathing technique is to clarity the difference between ordinary breathing needs, and those necessary for singing."

The first issue is using helpful and help in the same sentence. "A helpful way to help a student understand"? "A helpful way for a student to understand," would be better. next is the misspelling of the word clarify. He has "clarity."

Just a few sentences after that one he misspells pattern and instead writes patter. Then in the same paragraph a few more sentences down he writes " The technical data give here..." The word he was looking for was "given." So far this is all on just one page. Just 2 pages later he left out the word "of" in a sentence. " After a certain amount facility is gained, the process becomes automatic and easy." There should be an "of" between amount and facility. These happen to be very minor but so far in only 38 pages I have come across many. Some whole sentences are totally out of whack and senseless.

Very poor editing. If not for what I know already and a little common sense i would be very confused at some points.

NOTE:

I just want to say that it seems like a good book so far despite the editing problems. I just happen to be a stickler for that type of stuff. :) I can still make my way thru ok and like I said, still worth it. I just wanted to make that clear....I'm not hammering the book. Only the editor.

And maybe I made a mountain out of a molehill.

Then, again, I pick at singing systems like a salad bar. Some lettuce and julienned carrots. Garbanzo beans. Put an italian viniagrette dressing on it (for the vowels.)

How's that for obtuse and odd expression?

And sorry if I seemed recalcitrant, MDEW. Yes, there will be some tension in the throat, just as there is tension in the arms of one's audience as they pick their beers up from the table. It's undue tension or so much tension that feels like an unsustainable strain that I would watch out for. But, all in all, I know I am singing right for me when I don't feel strain in the throat.

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