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Hey all, can some of the more experienced members of this forum explain this to me in more detail?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZ2AcaPb7o

Is this application of "dark timbre" dampening the larynx? Is this total bs lol :) What do you take from this?

Regardless of whether this is good or bad information it is very interesting and worth looking at! And this guy can definitely walk the walk.

-JayMC

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Hey all, can some of the more experienced members of this forum explain this to me in more detail?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZ2AcaPb7o

Is this application of "dark timbre" dampening the larynx? Is this total bs lol :) What do you take from this?

Regardless of whether this is good or bad information it is very interesting and worth looking at! And this guy can definitely walk the walk.

-JayMC

Well he's addressing the tonal balance for certain vocal styles. You can sing your high notes with a balanced tone, a dark tone(like he says), a covered sound, any combination of these, or different kinds of tonal variations.

Summarizing what he says, 'maintain a dark timbre through the passaggio' which means, if you want to use a dramatic tone in your whole classical range, then you have to work on bringing up that tone especially through your passaggio.

He calls it "dark timbre" but he's referring to have a unified sound. Since he has a tenor voice, it's more important in those facher to make sure the balance is maintained, while a lower voice won't have the problem of getting too light in most cases.

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My take on this (and I'm a beginner so take from this what you will :P) is the "dark timbre" comes from the old "lifting soft palate, lowering larynx" that we've all heard before. If you are going for that sound, I think it's a good idea, and I also believe that is a healthy way of singing higher.

However, what I found most interesting and what I could relate to was his talk about "no passagio". When I first came to these forums I was very confused due to all the terms, sensations and what not, specially about chest voice, head voice and mix. What I've come to do now though, is totally disregard all of that. I can in some ways feel that it is easier to sing certain notes that might be higher than certain other notes, but that does not feel like I'm in head voice and can produce those notes to perfection. It feels more like, I've let go of the fullness and more phonates the tones rather than sings them like I should.

Now, for me this leads to the sensation of no real passagio, rather just increasing pressure needed the higher I go, and I never really come through to another "side" were everything is nice and jolly.

I might have hijacked this thread and just ranting away, and if that's the case I apologize. But if anyone can relate to this and to what he was talking about, please let me know :)

Cheers!

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However, what I found most interesting and what I could relate to was his talk about "no passagio". When I first came to these forums I was very confused due to all the terms, sensations and what not, specially about chest voice, head voice and mix. What I've come to do now though, is totally disregard all of that. I can in some ways feel that it is easier to sing certain notes that might be higher than certain other notes, but that does not feel like I'm in head voice and can produce those notes to perfection. It feels more like, I've let go of the fullness and more phonates the tones rather than sings them like I should.

Now, for me this leads to the sensation of no real passagio, rather just increasing pressure needed the higher I go, and I never really come through to another "side" were everything is nice and jolly

Are you sure we're not related? For I too have benefited from simplifying things, which may not suit others. Others respond better to technical terminology. But, for me, anything past the basic physics of sound wave propogation and amplification is mostly descriptive words, depending on one's perspective.

As for the darkening of the voice, Lunte, this year, has been all about laryngeal dampening, related to his intrinsic anchoring.

And here is where a note of caution is in order. Understanding what it is that you are hearing. A baritone singing a high note darkly will sound boomy. A tenor, especially a light one like me, will sound different at the same note with the same technique. Notice, I said sound different. My note will still be dark, in comparison to how I may sing another note, but it may not "sound" as dark as maybe one of Lunte's at the same note, with the same technique. That is what tripped me up, at first, when dealing with intrinsic anchoring and the laryngeal dampening effect. I was an idiot, expecting that I was going to sound like Robert. Well, no, I sound like Ron, making a dark sound.

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My take on this (and I'm a beginner so take from this what you will :P) is the "dark timbre" comes from the old "lifting soft palate, lowering larynx" that we've all heard before. If you are going for that sound, I think it's a good idea, and I also believe that is a healthy way of singing higher.

However, what I found most interesting and what I could relate to was his talk about "no passagio". When I first came to these forums I was very confused due to all the terms, sensations and what not, specially about chest voice, head voice and mix. What I've come to do now though, is totally disregard all of that. I can in some ways feel that it is easier to sing certain notes that might be higher than certain other notes, but that does not feel like I'm in head voice and can produce those notes to perfection. It feels more like, I've let go of the fullness and more phonates the tones rather than sings them like I should.

Now, for me this leads to the sensation of no real passagio, rather just increasing pressure needed the higher I go, and I never really come through to another "side" were everything is nice and jolly.

I might have hijacked this thread and just ranting away, and if that's the case I apologize. But if anyone can relate to this and to what he was talking about, please let me know :)

Cheers!

This is true, if you approach it in the same way as Blake is doing. His student believes that what allows him to phonate through the passagio is the dark timbre. As a way to kinda mask a change of quality of the sound due to a real change on what your larynx is doing. Ino allowing a break to happen there and darkenning it to mask it.

And then, he simply destroy this belief by doing the one thing that cant be counter argumented, he simply removes dark timbre and just go through it, one voice, no breaks and no differences.

Still, although there is no change of vocal register, yes its all modal, there Must be a change on the resonance strategy, or else it becomes too strenuous to be sustainend, and he is doing it. And this change is big enough to require a trainning of registration, to place and optmize vowels on that area, the same as it is done on chest voice.

So for that person, since he probably is having problems breaking on the passagio, possibly the solution will be totally removing dark timbre and maybe even doing specific exercises to kinda press it a bit and remove the break, then relaxing it back and placing it correctly.

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And btw, this also touches other sensible matters. Notice how his student, even after hearing how it is done and how it is possbile, refutes the idea and try to argument. The idea he has is the problem itself, and yet he is defending it, as if it was his duty to stand his ground and defend his voice :).

This happens to ALL of us, in a lot of different ways, and only when we observe it on others it becomes this clear.

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o.O

Not sure I follow... this is an exageration of the formant in order to make it more clear, how is it different of what you are trying to do there?

https://www.box.com/files#/files/0/f/352555423/1/f_3494241694

Am I getting it right, do you think this sounds like a duck? This is how the formant is supposed to work on the vowels. Make a more or less sharp cut around 3khz and you will notice the difference.

You can make it brighter or darker by covering and lowering the larynx. Cover will shift the formant up a bit, into the mask, lowering the larynx will ballance the sound if you want to go very, very forward.

Sounding like a duck is not really acceptable. And it surely has nothing to do with the 3khz range, the problem is around 1.5 or 2 K in duck, goats and other nasal animals cases hehe.

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It's still working, I just checked, and apparently it worked for Felipe too. Make sure you click on "download this file", not the bigger download buttons that are actually advertisements.

That's what I did. I put in the code, click to download and get "The requested file isn't available"

I don't know what's going on there....

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Covering is not the same as darkening, although it does add body, the end of the sample, on pole, the oh vowel is covered... And although what you guys call twang has a lot to do with it, you cant resume it to it. sounding like a duck is not acceptable. May be a reference to find it, never the end result.

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But it just isnt the duck sound, just a piece of it....

Why would you sound like a duck if you dont have to?

And thus, why trying to tune it higher? 3k is very bright and ringy already, run a test tone in 3 khz, its a whistle tone almost. in fact, thats what tunning formants does, a whistle :).

Not a duck.;)

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Then you are saying that what you define as a duck quality is not nasality. Thats why I sent the sample, does it has the duck quality being discussed? It is done uskng the formant. Either you guys have some very weird ducks over there, or its not necessary to add tension to use the formant and not sound like a duck.

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I get myself in trouble by jumping in but I do have something to say.

I got very confused by people saying Quack like a duck, make sound of diving aeroplane, cackle like a witch to find twang. Too me all of these things have a different quality to them. Not only that but but the sounds themselves if added to a note get very anoying real quick.

For me it was finally asking myself what feeling and quality do they share. I finally found the physical movement in my neck area that they all had in common. That is what you need not the anoying nasality.

The harmonics tuning should not have to involve the nasally sound. With the nasality you are also amplifying the nasal sound not the pure tone.

I could be wrong I am just a hillbilly without proper training .

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Not wrong mdew. But these things are usefull, as these references usually allow you do it without creating tensions on the process. But it isnt just quacking or making airplanes sounds, of course not.

Thats why mixing up the singer formant with duck sounds bothers me. The first may be contained in the later, true. But it does not work on the inverse way. Its a world of difference.

Within a trainning system, can and should be used. But this small piece should never be confused with the whole.

So I use humming to find it. Next thing youll see someone that dont want to use the formant because they dont want to be humming all the time. Does not make sense.

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Twang can only be part of the singers formant. If singers formant is a clustering of harmonics. Then twang is only responsable for one of the harmonics. Shape and size of mouth cavity, and shape and size of lip opening, amount of air sent to sinus cavities,and speed of breath flow allow for the other tunings.

Again I can be wrong.

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