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Hold / grunt

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MDEW
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Sorry to have interupted an ongoing debate. I deleted my posts from the other thread.

There is a confusion when using the term grunt because there are two different sounds associated with the term.

One is more of a frustrated sigh. The other happens when lifting something heavy.

I have included a sound clip representing the two.

Please let me know if I am wrong.

http://soundcloud.com/mdew/grunt-hold-descripyion

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Well, some say to use a grunt to help find the hold in CVT. Others say use a grunt to help find the faulse fold distortion in Death metal. Some say use the grunt to help with cord closure in High notes.

These two sounds are both grunts. Do they apply at all or just taking away from what really should be happening?

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Personally, I believe the first one would be for the distortion and the second sample more for chord closure. However, to some extent the second hold feels like something I do to keep chord closure when I lack placement and support, I.e cheating :P

I may be wrong, I often am :D

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I agree, but isn't it confusing when someone uses the term apply a grunt to help identify a certain configuration when there are two different meanings to the word that use a totally different setup?

The first one has no hold whatsoever and no compression of the true folds. And the second one has tuns of hold and compression. Yet they are both grunts. :/

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The first one is using both the false folds/true folds, it has no real use in singing but you will hear Divas growling all the time. What there are doing is literally growling with the false folds and using that as an overtone in their singing voices. In "screaming" you will actually hear a more advanced application of the first grunt you did, I believe it is called a death growl. The second grunt seems as if you were trying to hold your breath but I did hear some vocal fry in there. Vocal fry is ultra compression/closure of the vocal folds, you will hear this sound in the morning if you had a nice sleep, vocal teachers use this sound as a "light mass" onset and it does have some uses for singing. The vocal fry sound can help some people bridge effortlessly and connect to a pure head voice. However for some people such as myself it takes more time to develop and trying to "force" the sound never helps! It is easiest to find in the morning when your cords are the most relaxed. Also referred to as the elmer fudd/grudge sound.

Hope this helped!

- JayMC

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The first one is using both the false folds/true folds, it has no real use in singing but you will hear Divas growling all the time. What there are doing is literally growling with the false folds and using that as an overtone in their singing voices. In "screaming" you will actually hear a more advanced application of the first grunt you did, I believe it is called a death growl. The second grunt seems as if you were trying to hold your breath but I did hear some vocal fry in there. Vocal fry is ultra compression/closure of the vocal folds, you will hear this sound in the morning if you had a nice sleep, vocal teachers use this sound as a "light mass" onset and it does have some uses for singing. The vocal fry sound can help some people bridge effortlessly and connect to a pure head voice. However for some people such as myself it takes more time to develop and trying to "force" the sound never helps! It is easiest to find in the morning when your cords are the most relaxed. Also referred to as the elmer fudd/grudge sound.

Hope this helped!

- JayMC

Jay thanks for replying. In the second sample I was going for the breath hold or compression in a way that was described in one of the vocal technique books that I have. Not the fry itself.

And to all of you I am not trying to be a jerk or anything. I am just trying to understand the proper concepts.

Glottal compression was described in this book " Grunt like you are lifting a heavy weight".

It is a book that is still quoted by some of the respected members here.

Yes it is a cheap book but it has its merits.

I am still doing things wrong even though I believe myself to be using the proper setups. Support, necessary twang, proper closure. Here is a sample from about a month ago. Recording is crappy because it was recorded on an old digital recorder for taking memos.

http://soundcloud.com/mdew/youll-accompany-me

At this point I should not sound this bad. It does sound better than 2 months ago by the way.

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I think your twang is already there. Try some gug, gug, gug exercises. Don't be afraid to get a little dopey. The "g" actually closes the cords. You can try it without sound at first. Then try them gently and really focus on that "compression" that the "gug" sound is trying to teach you. Another thing, open your mouth more, without seeing you sing its hard to tell but I can hear that your mouth is not fully open, drop your jaw, keep the tongue gentle pressed against lower teeth. You have a good sound just try not to hold it back :D Let me know if any of these tips helped.

- JayMC

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Thanks Jay. As you can tell the fullness is just not there eventhough I have a fairly low speaking voice.

That was one of the reasons I had the question of what grunt some were saying to use to get the fuller head sounds. And I can make these noises outside of singing. But have not leaned how to incorperate them in my singing.

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