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MIXED VOICE - A Pro needed here! (read clearly please, thanks)

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Kuroneku
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Okay, alright..

So, there are thousands of videos and websites on the internet that try to teach You the "Mixed Voice".

Now, I very much understand Chest Voice, Mixed Voice, and Falsetto. The only range I have not explored is "Whistle", anyhow. Here is an example of a video that teaches the "Mix":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckhT3dGYK9Y

Well, I am 100% capable of creating such "Mix" sound like this "teacher" is doing.

The ultimate question now is; HOW can I apply that and achieve something like in the following two videos:

0:57 - Bb4 (Weeeee...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyifjAr826s

1:17

I want to see and listen to a video or SOMEONE who DEMONSTRATES how the mixed voice achieves such "powerful" notes in mixed, AND how to sing "full" notes, meaning "long" notes..

What is the "approach"? Larynx positioned where? Lots of air? Less air? More less pressure?

I've been using chest/belting to achieve LONG high notes (above F#4), but I wanna use mix to not harm my voice.

For some ODD reason I can hit (short) A4's notes NO problem, like in here for example:

1:11

BUT I would not be able to sing a FULL/LONG note like at 3:42 (same video).

I started doing something wrong-what could it be though?

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-hits big red buzzer- EEEEEEEEE. You are making it too complicated, because you don't know better. To put it simply, if you want to sing high notes well, your chest voice and head voice(falsetto) have to be completely connected. That's how freddy controls his notes so easily because his entire voice is connected.

The higher you go, the more your voice has to have head voice dominance+resonance. Chest voice only goes 2 octaves and a few extra notes, but not any higher, ever.(unless your singing classical in some cases)

mix, is only a transitional step, in connecting both chest and head. I'll explain why below.

Mixing, in my terms, occurs around 6 semi tones past your 1st octave, and goes up to the second octave. It's when your chest voice starts lightening and allowing you to hit your high chest notes somewhat easier. past that second octave area, heading towards the third octave, you then have to connect from a mix voice to head voice, completely blending both of your registers. BUT, the moment you start mixing, you want to start incorporating head voice, or else you will run into a break somewhere, because you will bring up too much weight.

So, concentrate on these things; not forcing with your mouth of forcing it too wide open, relaxing the throat area and diaphragm pressure, letting your vocal phonation drop back and resonate/phonate in 'head/falsetto voice' rather than sustaining chest voice. If you keep doing this, your voice will slowly start blending.

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Not to sound rude, but I totally understand the concept of mix.

The thing is though, I sing in mixed, BUT I'd love to see a demonstration on how You can add "power" to it more.

And what are great techniques for "long" high notes.

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I understand where you are coming from. But in truth the training and applying the concepts are what is going to get you there. No one can just tell you how in written form. They can guide you but you must do the work to strengthen the coordinations. Some one can tell you how to throw a curve ball. but it takes time and practice to throw it over the plate.

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I am no pro but here goes.

One thing worth understanding is that mix is a small step down from chest voice in terms of power. The 1:17 clip, he is probably belting in chest voice there. The other one sounds more heady. But mix can get very close, to the point where it sounds like chest voice to the average listener. It just takes LOTS of training.

And also, beware, SS does some deceptive marketing. Their method, from what myself and many others have experienced, doesn't bring fast and amazing results. There are much better methods out there for the powerful stuff. And the truth is, for 98% of people, mix won't come instantly, no matter what lies a method tries to sell to you. You have to build it.

If you want a real powerful mix, you need to work on good resonance (twang, lowered larynx, open throat), breath support (controlling the air with the diaphragm instead of just the throat) and bridging later (carrying up as much chest musculature as possible without completely pulling chest and never getting to the head voice, or flipping into falsetto).

A strong mix (to the point where it sounds nearly identical to chest) takes a long time to develop because you have to build tremendous strength in the muscles around the diaphragm and in and around the larynx to be able to stabilize the area right smack in between chest and head voice, where a lot of muscles are opposing each other, with lots of muscle strength (which is part of what creates the power, resonance is the other half, which also needs to be trained to get the most sound with the least effort). The only naturally accessible powerful notes in most people come from pure chest voice, because there is less opposing musculature involved. By the way, if you have been successfully belting with no pain, that's perfectly healthy if done right, you will not harm your voice from it. Most of the pros are just belting with chest voice, and very few of them get vocal problems. So it just becomes a choice between a heavy sound with a limited range or an ever so slightly lighter sound that can go higher. Mix will give you more range but it takes much longer to develop because it's a more unnatural coordination for the body.

The reason you can hit a short A4 is because the body can sing any sort of dangerously heavy phonation for a short time, because, well, it's short. The body doesn't have to work to maintain it, it just gives a push and then releases. With long notes, they have to feel comfortable in order for your body to maintain them. The cool thing about mix is that you will be able to sustain them longer. Much longer. Because there's less vocal fold mass being stretched, there's better elasticity, less tension. There's still a lot of tension but it's less than belting for sure. You could say that there's still tension but not strain. Mix doesn't hurt. It's just difficult to coordinate.

There is no short answer. It takes lots of practice. Yes there is a whole technique behind it (some of which I briefly mentioned above) and you can learn that from any good vocal program on the subject, but there are many variations from method to method regarding how it's produced, and since it's such an unnatural way of using the voice, in most cases you can only develop it through consistent training. The actual practicing is just as important as knowing how to do it. And there are many many ways to do it. But it is what it is. It is a tricky area between chest and head voice that can be smoothed out.

Like others said, it's the training that really counts more than the information.

I don't believe in God, but if he exists You should receive everything You want in life!

Thank You Thank You Thank You for that amazing paragraph. I've always taken my time on other Forums to write people huge paragraphs on certain topics to help them. Now this is where Karma comes in play.

The facts You mentioned are already helping me a lot mentally. THANKS AGAIN!

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Okay, alright..

So, there are thousands of videos and websites on the internet that try to teach You the "Mixed Voice".

Now, I very much understand Chest Voice, Mixed Voice, and Falsetto. The only range I have not explored is "Whistle", anyhow. Here is an example of a video that teaches the "Mix":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckhT3dGYK9Y

Well, I am 100% capable of creating such "Mix" sound like this "teacher" is doing.

The ultimate question now is; HOW can I apply that and achieve something like in the following two videos:

0:57 - Bb4 (Weeeee...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyifjAr826s

1:17

I want to see and listen to a video or SOMEONE who DEMONSTRATES how the mixed voice achieves such "powerful" notes in mixed, AND how to sing "full" notes, meaning "long" notes..

What is the "approach"? Larynx positioned where? Lots of air? Less air? More less pressure?

I've been using chest/belting to achieve LONG high notes (above F#4), but I wanna use mix to not harm my voice.

For some ODD reason I can hit (short) A4's notes NO problem, like in here for example:

1:11

BUT I would not be able to sing a FULL/LONG note like at 3:42 (same video).

I started doing something wrong-what could it be though?

I could do a mix in the way that the guy described and demonstrated in your first video probably the first time I tried it. That just does not feel like a real mix to me and does not have the right tone or color. Only through support was I able to understand how Mercury has that tone in those parts of his register and I can definitely sound like that on the chorus of We Are The Champions. I can tell you that it is a MUCH different feeling than the one you described in the first video. In fact, I cannot even think of how the two positively correlate. I would say less air than you are used to using (Most likely) and much more pressure than you are used to without holding in the throat. There is some grit that is added as well.

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A change in the tonal character of the voice, carefully disguised by a quick leap on the passagio region. Adduction through tension. If you compare his voice on the high note with the low, sounds like two different persons. And most importantly, no support.

Can be much easier, simpler amd better than that, not close to be acceptable as technique reference.

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A change in the tonal character of the voice, carefully disguised by a quick leap on the passagio region. Adduction through tension. If you compare his voice on the high note with the low, sounds like two different persons. And most importantly, no support.

Can be much easier, simpler amd better than that, not close to be acceptable as technique reference.

I disagree. Lightening the sound colour slightly and gradually as you go up in pitch is good, if not essential. Extreme dark sound colour on high notes is pretty much only heard in opera. If you don't want an operatic sound, don't do it.

Btw. that guy is a very good pop vocal teacher. I've seen other clips of him. Felipe might disagree but I've heard many other people on this forum say that he's good.

Also, he's not teaching pure vanilla mix voice in this clip. He says so in the beginning that they're focusing on a bit of a pharengeal sound, so that he's headier and twangier than usual.

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To answer the original question. Take the sound Chris Keller is using in that first clip and add more dopyness/yawn and that will get you closer to the sound you desire. Don't forget to support and use the most resonant vowel you can find (I recommend medium open vowels like I, O and Uh). Here's another Chris Keller clip where he's probably getting closer to the sound you want:

Listen closely to how he uses the Uh vowel to sing a lyric that has the Ah vowel ("And IIIIIIII, will always love you". It sounds like "And Uuuuuuuh, will ...").

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What is the "approach"? Larynx positioned where? Lots of air? Less air? More less pressure?

Sounds like your problem is larynx approach - as in yours is too high. Especially if you get the sound in the first Chris Keller clip but want to sound more like Freddy Mercury (as in your most obvious problem - there migh be more problems, obviously).

For some ODD reason I can hit (short) A4's notes NO problem, like in here for example:

1:11

BUT I would not be able to sing a FULL/LONG note like at 3:42 (same video).

Ironically, the great Freddy Mercury breaks slightly on that note :)

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By the way, if you have been successfully belting with no pain, that's perfectly healthy if done right, you will not harm your voice from it. Most of the pros are just belting with chest voice, and very few of them get vocal problems.

A couple of things on this...

First off, if he can't sustain notes by belting them then I don't think he's belting correctly. Belting should be sustainable just like mix should be.

Second of all, just to be clear, most of the pros who know how to belt correctly likely also know how to use mix/head/cry/thyroid tilt, or whatever we call it when someone sings high notes comfortably at moderate volumes. If they don't, then chances are they're probably belting in a strained and unhealthy way.

Remember, the sound from our voices comes from pressure created by the folds resisting air. More pressure = bigger tone. More pressure can be achieved in two ways...

#1 (The wrong way): Force more air. This will sound strained, breathy, probably break into falsetto if you try to sustain it for too long, and will damage your vocal folds in the long run.

#2 (The correct way): Hold back the air and use more fold mass. A powerful mix is achieved by more fold mass and resisting the airflow with the support muscles. Belting (properly) is achieved by even more fold mass and resisting of the airflow.

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My take on that is because producers keep looking for a new sound or a particular sound. People may hear a particular quality that they try to emulate not thinking of weather it is healthy or not.

Hair bands of the eighties had a particular sound..... Boy bands had a particular sound...... After Whitney Houston many female singers copied her sound....... Now a lot of female singers are going for an airy fry sound.

After Adele came along alot of females are now trying to get that full belted low bluesy sound...

When that High controlled full sounding voice comes back into mainstream or you get one artist with a great song who uses that voice then everyone will try to learn it again.

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that "somebody to love" part where he breaks off to a higher note at the end is achieved through good support and a well placed vowel.

the support enables you to send greater air pressure up top and when the pressurized air hits the right resonant pocket, it rings like crazy.

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I disagree. Lightening the sound colour slightly and gradually as you go up in pitch is good, if not essential. Extreme dark sound colour on high notes is pretty much only heard in opera. If you don't want an operatic sound, don't do it.

Btw. that guy is a very good pop vocal teacher. I've seen other clips of him. Felipe might disagree but I've heard many other people on this forum say that he's good.

Also, he's not teaching pure vanilla mix voice in this clip. He says so in the beginning that they're focusing on a bit of a pharengeal sound, so that he's headier and twangier than usual.

lol vanilla mix jon, I missed that one.

Mix not mix, these things I dont have a clue what they mean. In this specific case, "vanilla mix" is a forced falsetto then.

I understand full voice and falsetto. modal, not modal. This is not modal, does not do the job. Nothing to do with darkness of sound either, a better way of saying, its just too weak to do what he is trying to do. Instead of "mixing" stuff, keep it full, keep it strong, keep it controlled. Its easier, less stressfull, much better to control. These things are just shortcuts to a result that will never be properly done using what he is using.

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