Consumingfire39 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I seem to have trouble with words starting with the letter "f" while I am in full support. The problem is kind of hard to explain but it just feels like it introduces some tension and breaks up the coordination in some way. I don't know if this is normal or what it might be indicative of a problem with my support or vocal technique. Obviously, the letter requires more air to be released than others and maybe if I am using too much support it makes it difficult to do? Anyone have any thoughts or tips on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverOs Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Well if you try to onset the larynx on the F, then you obviously will have trouble. The F vowel is just putting your upper teeth on your bottom lip and blowing air out. So with a FA vowel, you aren't moving your larynx till the A. Don't force the vowel, just let it develop slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consumingfire39 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Well if you try to onset the larynx on the F, then you obviously will have trouble. The F vowel is just putting your upper teeth on your bottom lip and blowing air out. So with a FA vowel, you aren't moving your larynx till the A. Don't force the vowel, just let it develop slowly. Thanks. Sometimes when learning at the rate I am trying to do it is easy to forsake simple concepts should be second nature. I have probably been doing what you described and will try it out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverOs Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Maybe I'm right, but vowels are just an experience thing. I certainly have had lots of vowels that I had trouble with, and it just takes time to get them better. I still have trouble with the vowel "R". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Appoggio is just support in Italian, its all the same really. Appoggio, apoio, support. Although it sounds cool it makes no difference your language of choice. The F causes a posture of your vocal tract similar to blowing or a whistle. While it should be all the same, it can trigger a coordination of your breathing that kills support. How are you trainning this? Its a basic step to do voiced and unvoiced phonation with the purpose of fixing this connection. I strongly advice against trainning this alone, can become a monster and cause problems instead of fixing if done wrong. GL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gina Ellen Vocalist Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 You might be loosing all your air on a F. Practice breath control on consonants like sss, sh and f as well as vowels. F is hard, It may feel like all the air wants to just come pouring out, this is where you have to control the breath from low and not from the throat, everything should feel relaxed in the throat and you should be holding back/suspending/supporting the breath from your lower torso. Also, it helps to remember not to move your mouth/jaw area too much (it's tempting to say FUH instead of just F) The jaw will come down if your saying FUH. The actual F sound is produced by a puff of air passing between your top teeth gently rested on your bottom lip. Obviously this is followed by a consonant in a real word but maybe have a go at practicing just the F sound trying to keep that 'inflated diaphragm' feeling. You could also try this with a candle in front of your mouth. If it blows out then your letting out too much air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 F is not a vowel. It is a soft consonant in that it allows some air to pass, as opposed to a hard consonant such as b or pe that involves a full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gina Ellen Vocalist Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 oops, when i said 'followed by a consonant in a real word' i meant 'followed by a vowel in a real word'. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consumingfire39 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Appoggio is just support in Italian, its all the same really. Appoggio, apoio, support. Although it sounds cool it makes no difference your language of choice. The F causes a posture of your vocal tract similar to blowing or a whistle. While it should be all the same, it can trigger a coordination of your breathing that kills support. How are you trainning this? Its a basic step to do voiced and unvoiced phonation with the purpose of fixing this connection. I strongly advice against trainning this alone, can become a monster and cause problems instead of fixing if done wrong. GL. I really just noticed this the other day. I really just worked around it while singing at that time. I think I was turning the "f" into a "fuh" sound like Gina Ellen mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Adolph Namlik Posted October 20, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 20, 2012 Dover, R is not a vowel, it's a consonant...... Something I learned a long time ago elementary school, First Grade : Vowels : A, E, I, O, U (and SOMETIMES Y and W) The rest are consonants.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverOs Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Dover, R is not a vowel, it's a consonant...... Something I learned a long time ago elementary school, First Grade : Vowels : A, E, I, O, U (and SOMETIMES Y and W) The rest are consonants.......... Ok, let me just retract my statement, and say, I find the letter "R" hard to phonate while singing, or, the consonant R followed by a vowel, or the consonant R used in a syllable form, hard to phonate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remylebeau Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Ok, let me just retract my statement, and say, I find the letter "R" hard to phonate while singing, or, the consonant R followed by a vowel, or the consonant R used in a syllable form, hard to phonate It is indeed hard to phonate and it produces a rather ugly tone, so most trained singers will modify it. If you start with the sound "ur" and modify it to sound more like "uh" you'll find it a lot easier to sing. Same with "er" and "eh", etc. I'm not saying you should ALWAYS do this, as I believe there are no hard and fast rules about modification and that there are times where it's perfectly appropriate and artistically necessary to sing a genuine "er" or "ur" sound. I do highly recommend it in most cases where you're singing around and above your bridging area, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted October 21, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 21, 2012 Appoggio, me likey.:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted October 21, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 21, 2012 Ok, let me just retract my statement, and say, I find the letter "R" hard to phonate while singing, or, the consonant R followed by a vowel, or the consonant R used in a syllable form, hard to phonate For vocal technique geeks, the consonant /r/ is classified as a "Voiced Glide" Consonant. Not to be confused with your unvoiced fricatives such as /s/... but always to be mostly aware of the stop unvoiced plosives, such as /p/ & the stop voiced plosives such as /g/. Hey Adolph! How you been my dear friend!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted October 21, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hi Gina, how's it going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Adolph Namlik Posted October 22, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hey Robert, Will have to give you a call before you make your next tour to Europe. Not too good with the spinal issues, AGAIN ---- Maybe another trip to the surgeon ??? Also another "issue" that I'd rather discuss with you by phone.... BUT, I still haven't missed a single day at TMV World since 12 November '08 !!!!! :cool: Hope you get a BREAK before going to work in Europe, Brother !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hey Robert, Will have to give you a call before you make your next tour to Europe. Not too good with the spinal issues, AGAIN ---- Maybe another trip to the surgeon ??? Also another "issue" that I'd rather discuss with you by phone.... BUT, I still haven't missed a single day at TMV World since 12 November '08 !!!!! :cool: Hope you get a BREAK before going to work in Europe, Brother !!! So, quit having medical issues. It's just that easy. Really, though, take care of yourself. People may not realize how much you do to keep this truck between the ditches, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Adolph Namlik Posted October 23, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 23, 2012 Ron, Thank you so much for your kind words !!! That's THE MOST IMPORTANT comment you've made and I simply had to address it FIRST and foremost !!! Ahhhh...... I really didn't want to get into the medical problems, but after all the spinal surgeries, I really hope I don't need another.... The botox injections I received a few months ago in the neck, shoulders, upper back, etc., helped significantly. But now they're wearing off as expected and I'm awaiting authorization from the insurance company for more. WAIT, WAIT, WAIT....... But what do they care ??? No, I'm not the type to look for sympathy, but this ordeal is ridiculous !!! Hopefully, the authorization will come through SOON as they really controlled the spasms !!! I had the injections three months in a row, each time with more needles, and I simply have to believe that's ALL I need rather than "going under the knife" again.... Same symptoms, so to speak..... The last time I had the injections, I lost count at thirty-five needles !!! Strange, I know, but I think I'm beginning to like them..... HA HA :cool: But after eighteen years of being on pain medications I now have a new concern that's a bit scary to say the least---- a potential problem with the kidneys ? Awaiting the results of the "testing"..... ??? Staying positive though, and no, I'm not about to go "anywhere", at least as far as TMV World is concerned !!! Thank you again, my Friend !!! Hope all is well with YOU !!! Adolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've read contraindications on some pain meds, as well, especially NSAIDs that say they may be taxing on the kidneys. I think it came from a study and is not yet an established fact but it is considered a risk factor. Some days, ibuprofen and me are friends. Some days, that is how breakfast starts. Ibu and some coffee. A few pieces of toast. Only an hour later, and I ready to walk out the door to work. I like the old joke: If I had known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself. I've got a few back issues from a few car wrecks and a lifetime in the consruction industry. But, as my old doctor would say, use it or lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I seem to have trouble with words starting with the letter "f" while I am in full support. The problem is kind of hard to explain but it just feels like it introduces some tension and breaks up the coordination in some way. I don't know if this is normal or what it might be indicative of a problem with my support or vocal technique. Obviously, the letter requires more air to be released than others and maybe if I am using too much support it makes it difficult to do? Anyone have any thoughts or tips on this? when you have to launch on "f" (like in "feels like the first time") it's important to support well (try to hold back on the air flow) get off of the "f" consonant quickly as possible (don't linger on the "f") get to the vowel and ride the vowel. also what you can try, is to sing "f" but think a "v" which might help smooth it out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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