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Question for appoggio singers or those that are learning appoggio

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Consumingfire39
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I seem to have trouble with words starting with the letter "f" while I am in full support. The problem is kind of hard to explain but it just feels like it introduces some tension and breaks up the coordination in some way. I don't know if this is normal or what it might be indicative of a problem with my support or vocal technique. Obviously, the letter requires more air to be released than others and maybe if I am using too much support it makes it difficult to do?

Anyone have any thoughts or tips on this?

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Well if you try to onset the larynx on the F, then you obviously will have trouble. The F vowel is just putting your upper teeth on your bottom lip and blowing air out. So with a FA vowel, you aren't moving your larynx till the A. Don't force the vowel, just let it develop slowly.

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Well if you try to onset the larynx on the F, then you obviously will have trouble. The F vowel is just putting your upper teeth on your bottom lip and blowing air out. So with a FA vowel, you aren't moving your larynx till the A. Don't force the vowel, just let it develop slowly.

Thanks.

Sometimes when learning at the rate I am trying to do it is easy to forsake simple concepts should be second nature. I have probably been doing what you described and will try it out tomorrow.

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Appoggio is just support in Italian, its all the same really. Appoggio, apoio, support. Although it sounds cool it makes no difference your language of choice.

The F causes a posture of your vocal tract similar to blowing or a whistle. While it should be all the same, it can trigger a coordination of your breathing that kills support.

How are you trainning this? Its a basic step to do voiced and unvoiced phonation with the purpose of fixing this connection. I strongly advice against trainning this alone, can become a monster and cause problems instead of fixing if done wrong.

GL.

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You might be loosing all your air on a F. Practice breath control on consonants like sss, sh and f as well as vowels. F is hard, It may feel like all the air wants to just come pouring out, this is where you have to control the breath from low and not from the throat, everything should feel relaxed in the throat and you should be holding back/suspending/supporting the breath from your lower torso. Also, it helps to remember not to move your mouth/jaw area too much (it's tempting to say FUH instead of just F) The jaw will come down if your saying FUH. The actual F sound is produced by a puff of air passing between your top teeth gently rested on your bottom lip. Obviously this is followed by a consonant in a real word but maybe have a go at practicing just the F sound trying to keep that 'inflated diaphragm' feeling. You could also try this with a candle in front of your mouth. If it blows out then your letting out too much air!

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Appoggio is just support in Italian, its all the same really. Appoggio, apoio, support. Although it sounds cool it makes no difference your language of choice.

The F causes a posture of your vocal tract similar to blowing or a whistle. While it should be all the same, it can trigger a coordination of your breathing that kills support.

How are you trainning this? Its a basic step to do voiced and unvoiced phonation with the purpose of fixing this connection. I strongly advice against trainning this alone, can become a monster and cause problems instead of fixing if done wrong.

GL.

I really just noticed this the other day. I really just worked around it while singing at that time. I think I was turning the "f" into a "fuh" sound like Gina Ellen mentioned.

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Dover,

R is not a vowel, it's a consonant......

Something I learned a long time ago elementary school, First Grade :

Vowels : A, E, I, O, U (and SOMETIMES Y and W)

The rest are consonants..........

Ok, let me just retract my statement, and say, I find the letter "R" hard to phonate while singing, or, the consonant R followed by a vowel, or the consonant R used in a syllable form, hard to phonate

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Ok, let me just retract my statement, and say, I find the letter "R" hard to phonate while singing, or, the consonant R followed by a vowel, or the consonant R used in a syllable form, hard to phonate

It is indeed hard to phonate and it produces a rather ugly tone, so most trained singers will modify it. If you start with the sound "ur" and modify it to sound more like "uh" you'll find it a lot easier to sing. Same with "er" and "eh", etc. I'm not saying you should ALWAYS do this, as I believe there are no hard and fast rules about modification and that there are times where it's perfectly appropriate and artistically necessary to sing a genuine "er" or "ur" sound. I do highly recommend it in most cases where you're singing around and above your bridging area, though.

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Ok, let me just retract my statement, and say, I find the letter "R" hard to phonate while singing, or, the consonant R followed by a vowel, or the consonant R used in a syllable form, hard to phonate

For vocal technique geeks, the consonant /r/ is classified as a "Voiced Glide" Consonant. Not to be confused with your unvoiced fricatives such as /s/... but always to be mostly aware of the stop unvoiced plosives, such as /p/ & the stop voiced plosives such as /g/.

Hey Adolph! How you been my dear friend!?

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Hey Robert,

Will have to give you a call before you make your next tour to Europe.

Not too good with the spinal issues, AGAIN ---- Maybe another trip to the surgeon ??? Also another "issue" that I'd rather discuss with you by phone.... BUT, I still haven't missed a single day at TMV World since 12 November '08 !!!!! :cool:

Hope you get a BREAK before going to work in Europe, Brother !!!

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Hey Robert,

Will have to give you a call before you make your next tour to Europe.

Not too good with the spinal issues, AGAIN ---- Maybe another trip to the surgeon ??? Also another "issue" that I'd rather discuss with you by phone.... BUT, I still haven't missed a single day at TMV World since 12 November '08 !!!!! :cool:

Hope you get a BREAK before going to work in Europe, Brother !!!

So, quit having medical issues. It's just that easy.

;)

Really, though, take care of yourself. People may not realize how much you do to keep this truck between the ditches, so to speak.

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Ron,

Thank you so much for your kind words !!! :) That's THE MOST IMPORTANT comment you've made and I simply had to address it FIRST and foremost !!!

Ahhhh...... I really didn't want to get into the medical problems, but after all the spinal surgeries, I really hope I don't need another.... The botox injections I received a few months ago in the neck, shoulders, upper back, etc., helped significantly. But now they're wearing off as expected and I'm awaiting authorization from the insurance company for more. WAIT, WAIT, WAIT....... But what do they care ??? No, I'm not the type to look for sympathy, but this ordeal is ridiculous !!! Hopefully, the authorization will come through SOON as they really controlled the spasms !!! I had the injections three months in a row, each time with more needles, and I simply have to believe that's ALL I need rather than "going under the knife" again.... Same symptoms, so to speak.....

The last time I had the injections, I lost count at thirty-five needles !!! Strange, I know, but I think I'm beginning to like them..... HA HA :cool:

But after eighteen years of being on pain medications I now have a new concern that's a bit scary to say the least---- a potential problem with the kidneys ? Awaiting the results of the "testing"..... ???

Staying positive though, and no, I'm not about to go "anywhere", at least as far as TMV World is concerned !!!

Thank you again, my Friend !!!

Hope all is well with YOU !!!

Adolph

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I've read contraindications on some pain meds, as well, especially NSAIDs that say they may be taxing on the kidneys. I think it came from a study and is not yet an established fact but it is considered a risk factor.

Some days, ibuprofen and me are friends. Some days, that is how breakfast starts. Ibu and some coffee. A few pieces of toast. Only an hour later, and I ready to walk out the door to work.

I like the old joke: If I had known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

I've got a few back issues from a few car wrecks and a lifetime in the consruction industry. But, as my old doctor would say, use it or lose it.

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I seem to have trouble with words starting with the letter "f" while I am in full support. The problem is kind of hard to explain but it just feels like it introduces some tension and breaks up the coordination in some way. I don't know if this is normal or what it might be indicative of a problem with my support or vocal technique. Obviously, the letter requires more air to be released than others and maybe if I am using too much support it makes it difficult to do?

Anyone have any thoughts or tips on this?

when you have to launch on "f" (like in "feels like the first time") it's important to support well (try to hold back on the air flow) get off of the "f" consonant quickly as possible (don't linger on the "f") get to the vowel and ride the vowel. also what you can try, is to sing "f" but think a "v" which might help smooth it out more.

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