Special Techniques For Head Voice Development!

[ronws]

Here's what I see.

An interesting statement. That you, ryj, have been reading this forum since 2011 and just now decided to respond. And in all that time haven't learned the tone of discourse that is preferred, here? Come in, guns ablazing? What's that about?

But the most telling statement was when you said that your friends thought that the sounds you made before were girly and weak. So, correct me if I am wrong, and I happen to be mature enough to handle being told when I am wrong (it even happened recently and I admitted I was wrong and the world continued to turn around,) but you are basing what is strong voice on your friends statements, who like the baritone range screamo, and that outweighs anything that professional voice coaches and other lifelong singers might find value in? Or am I overreaching?

Perhaps, I need to ask why you thought the onsets were weak. Is it only because the note did not start out like your song? Or did you not get, after repeated attempts to inform you, that the onsets were for head voice training?

Let me see if I can try. The onsets were for headvoice training.

Something basic, to which one can later add distortion. I have to admit I don't know anything about screamo and don't care to know but I also think, in my own amateur way, that what is going on with screamo is not so easily related to what we are doing with head voice. In which case, to me, your initial comment is a non-sequitur. Doesn't logically follow.

And, you said, in a post, that your desire was not to offend. I invite you to look at your initial post and tell me if there was a way to express your misgiving without looking like you were spoiling for a fight. And it has nothing to do with english not being your first language. For example, I speak some spanish, though it is not my first language. But even I know what not to say if I walk into a cantina, looking for a beer. Conversely, I also know enough spanish to start a fight.

And no, I am not saying you speak spanish, that was just an example.

Something else of interest. When I made the comments about the Boerlings, you responded so fast that you were obviously online. And fast enough that you did not have enough time to search recordings of the either of the Boerlings to form a response. Ergo, you are familiar with the Boerlings and opera. And, having read this forum since 2011, per your own words, already know the general sound ideal or ideals presented in this forum, some of them greatly aided by techniques such as Robert's. Leading me to wonder why you made the comment and in the way that you did.

And you say that what you fear from trying to understand and implement the technique demonstrated is that you will sound girly and weak. Me, I already sound girly, so I have no further to fall from grace. So, you speak of fear. Don't be afraid.

And often, in training, one will make odd sounds but that will not be the end result. It will be merely a stepping stone, a training tool to develope your voice even further. But you have to be brave enough to get through that.

Now, I shall sit back and read where you tell me some more what I may or may not think or judge.

[ryjcio]

Dear ronws,

An interesting statement. That you, ryj, have been reading this forum since 2011 and just now decided to respond. And in all that time haven't learned the tone of discourse that is preferred, here? Come in, guns ablazing? What's that about?

I didn't know that you all are so neurotic that you cannot face the opinion opossite of yours.

But the most telling statement was when you said that your friends thought that the sounds you made before were girly and weak. So, correct me if I am wrong, and I happen to be mature enough to handle being told when I am wrong (it even happened recently and I admitted I was wrong and the world continued to turn around,) but you are basing what is strong voice on your friends statements, who like the baritone range screamo, and that outweighs anything that professional voice coaches and other lifelong singers might find value in? Or am I overreaching?

Perhaps, I need to ask why you thought the onsets were weak. Is it only because the note did not start out like your song? Or did you not get, after repeated attempts to inform you, that the onsets were for head voice training?

Let me see if I can try. The onsets were for headvoice training.

Something basic, to which one can later add distortion. I have to admit I don't know anything about screamo and don't care to know but I also think, in my own amateur way, that what is going on with screamo is not so easily related to what we are doing with head voice. In which case, to me, your initial comment is a non-sequitur. Doesn't logically follow.

...

I was typing about the screamo in my earlier post, so I won't anserw the question until you read it.

I really started to think that the term head-voice is hardly misunderstand here. Or my teachers were wrong? Confusing, level 2.

Something else of interest. When I made the comments about the Boerlings, you responded so fast that you were obviously (...)

Of course I was online, like now I'm since couple hours. It's like 1:15 A.M. here and I need some breaks in doing my paperwork. Does it really so strange?

And I didn't know the Boerlings, I did a quick research, listened and type the opinion. Where's the problem?

And I'm truly sorry that I've got different taste than you all. I cannot find nothing offensive in my first post. It's all about the video, not about the human itself. I've just thought that the term MODERN really something means here.

[Robert Lunte]

ryjcio:

Don't take your ball and go home... I told you, I like your song, I think your distortion is probably leaning toward the healthy side, it sounds pretty cool and you have moxy... those are compliments... any other pounding on you I did was to try to help you to appreciate the 'onset' video so it could help you to sing better... take it or leave it...

Robert

[ryjcio]

... ok bud... I would have to disagree that any of these onsets are a lighter mass then Steve Perry, who was the lead singer of Journey... someone I grew up listening too, like you listen to these guys...

Yeah, I love the disscutions in kind of "opinion vs opinion". I'm stupid, you too, not you, not you too. Blah blah blah. We need some more people with brave to truly type down their opinion. Or spectograph and track of clean vocal by Steve Perry. Huh.

in any case, here we go again on the context... it isn't singing dude... its a training technique, about onsets... its not even about the 3 seconds of sustained phonation that follows that your judging it by... but what ever... I'm talking in circles now... I'm done with this... thanks for being a member and have fun here...

My teachers always said to me that I need to find the right setting and try to remember it through the exercices, build the ability to deal with these feelings in any kind of situation, so don't blame me that the idea of onset it's not clear for me if they don't mean nothing at all but training my head-voice, what ever it is for you.

Maybe other way... What's the ONSET sets in my voice? In anatomic way?

See,, this is what I mean by generation 'xbox'... no offense, I love you guys, but it makes me laugh sometimes.

Be more objective or the satan come out of my butt :P

[ronws]

Dear ronws,

I didn't know that you all are so neurotic that you cannot face the opinion opossite of yours.

Just a little touchy, eh? I was pointing logical inconsistencies. You are the one who started out being critical. And when someone calls you to task in return, this is your response?

'ight.

Are you aware of the definition of neurosis?

And so, you did a quick search on the Boerlings and in one listen, within twenty minutes, decided you knew enough of difference and quality? Maybe you are smarter than I am and way out my league.

I should stop before you really make a fool of me and show me up. Hopefully I can learn from you, then. I am always learning.

So, what is the difference, then, since you were able to comment, between the power of Robert's voice and that of the either of the Boerlings? Like I said, it was not my intention to compare. But you said they were strong and his head voice onset training exercises, which are specific thing to use as a training tool and do not an aria make, were weak and girly. So, can you quantify the difference?

You are already trying to say that I am wrong. So, "educate" me.

[Robert Lunte]

Yeah, I love the disscutions in kind of "opinion vs opinion". I'm stupid, you too, not you, not you too. Blah blah blah. We need some more people with brave to truly type down their opinion. Or spectograph and track of clean vocal by Steve Perry. Huh.

My teachers always said to me that I need to find the right setting and try to remember it through the exercices, build the ability to deal with these feelings in any kind of situation, so don't blame me that the idea of onset it's not clear for me if they don't mean nothing at all but training my head-voice, what ever it is for you.

Maybe other way... What's the ONSET sets in my voice? In anatomic way?

Be more objective or the satan come out of my butt

Ryjcio:

Im over simplifying here but, "onsets" in voice technique talk-track means, 'the start'... 'the beginning'. The first second of phonation. Now what we are teaching and... a lot of the experienced members on this forum understand as well is ... the stronger and more balanced your onset, the better the singing will be that follows. If your onset is good, the phrase you are going to sing in that same breath, will be much better. If your onset is bad, the phonation that follows will be bad... So, we care a lot about the onset (start of the phonation).

What are the things about that onset that we care about? Well... a lot of things, but probably the top 5 are:

1. Visualizing the pitch and the color of the formant (vowel).

2. Resonant Tracking &/or Placement (this is where you would choose your specialized onset).

3. Embouchure & tune the vowel

4. Intrinsic Anchoring (twang, tongue, larynx dampening)

5. Respiration

... there are more and these break out into sub-groups... but, you I hope you are beginning to get it... these work flows are detailed in the TVS training program, "The Four Pillars of Singing"... It helps you to sing better... :cool: not just Journey songs, but screamo and the kind of music you like too.

Im putting it out here for ya, because I feel like I beat up on you a little bit... hope this helps...

Robert

[ryjcio]

Just a little touchy, eh? I was pointing logical inconsistencies. You are the one who started out being critical. And when someone calls you to task in return, this is your response?

Where is the logical inconsistencies that I decided to start writing now, not a year ago? You're realy supersensitive.

And so, you did a quick search on the Boerlings and in one listen, within twenty minutes, decided you knew enough of difference and quality? Maybe you are smarter than I am and way out my league.

Maybe I've got a pair of good working ears.

So, what is the difference, then, since you were able to comment, between the power of Robert's voice and that of the either of the Boerlings? Like I said, it was not my intention to compare. But you said they were strong and his head voice onset training exercises, which are specific thing to use as a training tool and do not an aria make, were weak and girly. So, can you quantify the difference?

I believe there is differents in harmonics and general tone of the voice. Bjorling voice is rich and sounds fully. The Robert voice here is bright and squizzy and I didn't find it nice. There is the objective way of proove the difference: spectograph. There isn't an objective way to proove what's nice and what isn't.

Dear Robert,

So you tell me is all about... Atack anyway? It is slightly understandable that if you are starting wrong that is no possibility to finish right. So this exercises are all about impostation of the voice to be more stable?

[ronws]

All I am asking now, ryj, is for you to quantify your statements.

Unless they are only stylistic concerns. In which case, it is only an opinion of yours.

So, good luck with that.

[ryjcio]

I hear the lack of 3-4kHz frequencies that according to twang (I believe). And there is so much higher frequencies (above 6kHz) and lack of lower freq that probably means the larynx is too high, but is just a speculation. Without a spectograph trying to proove doesn't make no sense.

[Robert Lunte]

Where is the logical inconsistencies that I decided to start writing now, not a year ago? You're realy supersensitive.

Maybe I've got a pair of good working ears.

I believe there is differents in harmonics and general tone of the voice. Bjorling voice is rich and sounds fully. The Robert voice here is bright and squizzy and I didn't find it nice. There is the objective way of proove the difference: spectograph. There isn't an objective way to proove what's nice and what isn't.

Dear Robert,

So you tell me is all about... Atack anyway? It is slightly understandable that if you are starting wrong that is no possibility to finish right. So this exercises are all about impostation of the voice to be more stable?

The onsets get you to stability and other benefits, but their purpose is to workout the musculature and coordinations for singing, in particular, inside of M2 (head voice).

[Robert Lunte]

Ryjcio:

Apart from the fact that this discussion was something I created to discuss these new head voice onsets and it is now turning into something else, I'm not digg'n... I won't spend energy and time trying to help you and then continue to deal with your little insults.

Later dude... I wish you lots of luck with 'all that'.

[Jens]

Ryjcio im not here to defend rob cause he doesnt need it. What rob showed in those vids are as he wrote training sounds. That means basicly that they are not finished performing sounds.

Speaking general it's unfair to compare anyone on this forum to bjoerling. Considered the best classical tenor of all time, rivaling with just a few. So whoever started it's not scoring any points

with that Said ive trained alot with isolating muscles and similar stuff that robert is demonstrating and it has helped me tons for instance I can hit that C6( it's à b5 in the recording though) in cementary gates :)so sure we can have diffrent opinions nothing wrong with that,but if your deadset on your own way youll have a hard time learning anything new

Cheers

[ronws]

Ryj, there are spectographs of Rob's voice. Fellow member Steven Fraser has those and has shared them here in the forum. You could search for those. I don't know if he will enter this thread. I've gathered the impression after a while that he's not really into confrontational conversations.

Anyway, the spectrographs show Rob ringing like a bell, so to speak. I have seen those, myself and and flatly state that you are wrong in describing as not having the singer's formant. What speakers or headphones are you using to listen to this stuff? That might be a problem, right there.

Also, if you have read any of Robert's words, you will know that while he does not advocate a high larynx, neither does it remain static. And that, in fact, intrinsic anchoring and it's sister package, laryngeal dampening actually prevent the larynx from rising too high.

Knowing these things as facts, as I and several other "neurotics" here do, really makes me suspect that the equipment you are hearing through is not reproducing fully what you should be hearing.