high notes in full voice

[VideoHere]

folks, i really have a hard time understanding one particular issue about singing, and now i'm asking everyone to share their thoughts with me.

please.

when we speak of singing really powerful high notes (in full voice) the ones we all know all too well from various songs, regardless of genre, (which i gravitate towards), why does everyone seem to believe they should be easy and effortless?

i find you really have to put out to hit those notes well or you simply won't. it confuses the hell out of me. Can you take a moment to explain things to me?

[Snorth]

What they mean by "effortless" is simply that you can learn exactly how much support to use on the high notes, and that allows you hit the notes without having to worry too much about them. High notes in "full voice" is what I guess can be transcribed to overdrive and edge. In those cases it will always take alot physical effort because of the shear amount of volume, which requires such large amounts of support. High notes are only hard if you are unsure how much support is needed, if you know how much is needed it will be easy, but not physically effortless.

Yes high notes also requires other things that good support, but you get the point. :)

[analog]

Perfect response Snorth(at least to me.) :P

[drew77]

Curiously, could it also be said that Curbing could be considered full voice? I've heard some pretty big tones on high notes that definatley aren't EH or OH vowels and have a pretty dark sound color...........

Maybe Full Voice is just such a relative term......

[Steven Fraser]

Curiously, could it also be said that Curbing could be considered full voice? I've heard some pretty big tones on high notes that definatley aren't EH or OH vowels and have a pretty dark sound color...........

Maybe Full Voice is just such a relative term......

Drew77: Yes, Full voice includes what we call today 'Curbing'.

[Snorth]

Ah I wasn't sure if people like to refer to curbing as "mixed voice" here, it can sound very powerful in the high register definetly. Most classical tenors I've heard uses dark colored curbing in the higher register.

[Martin H]

Actually all CVT modes have been refered to as "full voice". Ex. the high notes of a soprano is Neutral but still it's considred "full voice". "Full voice" is a kind of vague term - so it depends on who you ask. :)

[jonpall]

To me, full voice is a non-airy voice.

[VideoHere]

does someone out here a video to hear curbing?

[VideoHere]

What they mean by "effortless" is simply that you can learn exactly how much support to use on the high notes, and that allows you hit the notes without having to worry too much about them. High notes in "full voice" is what I guess can be transcribed to overdrive and edge. In those cases it will always take alot physical effort because of the shear amount of volume, which requires such large amounts of support. High notes are only hard if you are unsure how much support is needed, if you know how much is needed it will be easy, but not physically effortless.

Yes high notes also requires other things that good support, but you get the point.

so really it does take considerable amount of work to reach and hold out these higher notes

[VideoHere]

What they mean by "effortless" is simply that you can learn exactly how much support to use on the high notes, and that allows you hit the notes without having to worry too much about them. High notes in "full voice" is what I guess can be transcribed to overdrive and edge. In those cases it will always take alot physical effort because of the shear amount of volume, which requires such large amounts of support. High notes are only hard if you are unsure how much support is needed, if you know how much is needed it will be easy, but not physically effortless.

Yes high notes also requires other things that good support, but you get the point.

thanks so much..steve, can you lend your expertise to this question?

[Steven Fraser]

thanks so much..steve, can you lend your expertise to this question?

VIDEOHERE, Snorth, et al: The amount of effort, especially the perception of that effort, is challenging to discuss objectively. So much depends on the specific things that the singer is doing... how they are using their voices.

Coming from a classical-singing background, I may have an interpretation of the word 'effortless' different than others. In classical singing, loudness (and carrying power) come from maximizing resonance, and _minimizing_ muscular effort- not making it minimal, but finding the minimum amount that is necessary to produce the desired tone.

Classical singers have very often reported that their voices seem to 'float' when they are singing their best. Perhaps the preference by classsical singers to Neutral and Curbing is what allows this to happen, especially when they stay centered in these modes.

I've written on this before, but the issue with support is not so much in the providing of energy to push air out... this pretty much happens reflexively when the body tries to make the sound concieved by the mind. What is needed is a balancing effort that prevents the exhalation force from overpowering the action of the laryngeal muscles.

To experience the approximate exhalation effort involved in singing, one very successful teacher I know has his young students blow up 9" party balloons a couple times a day. Go to a Party Stop, get a bag of them for a couple bucks, and try it yourself.

To experience the sense of the balancing effort, take in a 3/4 breath, and exhale slowly as if to fog glasses while cleaning them... a slow, warm exhale. Try singing while maintaining this sensation.

As a practical matter, there are ways for the singer to discover for themselves the 'right' amount of support required for the different dynamic levels. While the addage 'never louder than beautiful' perhaps does not apply for death metal, the mastery of dynamic control can be learned, and IMO has benefit regardless of style. For this, there is no better exercise than the messa di voce, (the use of smooth crescendo and decrescendo on a single note and vowel) combined with the grand-scale: 2-octaves, sung 1 scale note per breath. The attempt over the entire performance range, allows the singer the time to get in touch with the subtle changes in sensation associated with register transitions and dynamic control, that is, to find the balance that works for them.

[analog]

Steven...I actually bought a bag of balloons last year when I started working with CVT support. While there are other support factors, I always try to get the sensation of "blowing up a balloon" while singing. I had a real problem with "locking the support" and this image helped me tremendously!

[VideoHere]

thanks steve...i so apprecaite the opportunity to tap your experise. this is a tough topic to articulate. there are some songs that i sing such as "i surrender" celene dion (male version) , and when i'm done i am physically worked. i sure "feel" like it's being sung right, but it does take effort.