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Vibratory Mechanisms ?

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MDEW
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If we are trying to get away from outdated terms can someone tell me what laryngeal muscles or other components are associated with the different mechanisms. And if they used electrical impulses to map the mechanisms, How or where did they apply the probes?

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Nice Post Owen! Very impressive. I am very proud to call you my student.

How they measure the 'vibratory mechanisms' Im not clear, but I know that information is available. Just run a search for it and you will find several articles on it, including one from The Journal of Voice. Well here it is:

http://www.jvoice.org/article/S0892-1997(12)00006-9/abstract

It is mostly related to the rate of vibrations of the vocal folds. The speed of the vibrations, or duration of time the vocal folds are open, determine the "M0 - M1" classifications. There may be some other criteria as well, but this much I know.

The bigger point is, to define registers by something that is real, related to physiology of phonations... not picture words.

Here is my lecture on the vibratory mechanism definitions of vocal registers, hope this helps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb8HKyVNAFM

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Robert,

Thank you for the video. I do agree in the need to stop thinking of higher pitched sounds as being physically higher. We need to start thinking of it in linear terms as with a piano. The notes are on the same plane so to speak.

I am not trying to argue. I do not have enough knowledge to do that.

What I mean by physical configuration is Laryngeal position, cricoid tilt, arytenoid involvement.

What we have is vocal fold pulse to Tone frequency percentage.

M0 has a longer time between contact of vocal folds to produce a note.( fry, creak) regardless of how we configure our voice components. This would include squeeky door sound on an A4 pitch

M1 has a modal speaking sound regardless of how we configure our voice components. involves full vibration of vocal folds.

This would include full voice on an A4 pitch

M2 has a non modal sound. This would include a falsetto sound on a B3

M3 would include whistle voice sound. a tone that uses even less contact of the vocal folds.

If the data from an egg represents cricoid action and thyroarytenoid actin how did they apply the probes to get the electrical data.

I am sure that I still have things wrong. I am not trying to argue just understand.

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I barely know anything about it, but here is my understanding, according to the way Rob Lunte has described it:

M0=vocal fry

M1=chest voice.

M2=that register that starts at the upper half of the passaggio and extends up toward around E5. head or mix voice, depending on the terminology. also includes falsetto.

M3=that register that is above the previous register. includes whistle voice and what may often be termed "pure head voice"

As I suspect Rob may have put a slight twist on their definitions to make them more applicable to training, here is another possible interpretation that I suspect may be more accurate to the actual findings of the study (I'm just guessing here, this is kind of how the vocal registers are classified on wikipedia):

M0=pulse register

M1=modal voice

M2=falsetto

M3=whistle

I'm still not sure whether modal voice can refer to a strong head voice or mix, or basically any phonation involving combined CT/TA activity, or not. It is possible they assign the M2 term to pure CT-only falsetto, and the M3 term to the very unique characteristics of whistle voice, such as a "dampening" effect at the vocal folds.

Well M0 is definitely vocal fry/pulse register, I'm 100% positive on that. Characterized by irregular vibrations averaging around 30 hz. No terminology arguments down there for some reason.

I think these two lists are the same thing...

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I was trying to see the vibratory mechanisms as layngeal coordinations.Which it is not.

I can understand using them inplace of registrations as in "head" "chest".

I am not even sure of how to convey my questions.

Was I correct in my assumptions in my previous post?

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Robert,

Thank you for the video. I do agree in the need to stop thinking of higher pitched sounds as being physically higher. We need to start thinking of it in linear terms as with a piano. The notes are on the same plane so to speak.

I am not trying to argue. I do not have enough knowledge to do that.

What I mean by physical configuration is Laryngeal position, cricoid tilt, arytenoid involvement.

What we have is vocal fold pulse to Tone frequency percentage.

M0 has a longer time between contact of vocal folds to produce a note.( fry, creak) regardless of how we configure our voice components. This would include squeeky door sound on an A4 pitch

M1 has a modal speaking sound regardless of how we configure our voice components. involves full vibration of vocal folds.

This would include full voice on an A4 pitch

M2 has a non modal sound. This would include a falsetto sound on a B3

M3 would include whistle voice sound. a tone that uses even less contact of the vocal folds.

If the data from an egg represents cricoid action and thyroarytenoid actin how did they apply the probes to get the electrical data.

I am sure that I still have things wrong. I am not trying to argue just understand.

Its perfectly fine to argue..

My understanding is it isn't about cricoids and Thyroarytenoids per se... its about vibration of the vocal folds. I tend to agree with these definitions, and like the fact that it is not tethered to notes on the piano, but here again... based on what is happening at the vibratory mechanism... whistle has no contact of the vocal folds? Not sure that is accurate...?

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Thanks Robert,

I know my posts are hard to understand sometimes because I cannot find the proper words.

I did not say or mean no fold contact in whistle. Faster vibration = less amount of time in contact.

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If we are trying to get away from outdated terms can someone tell me what laryngeal muscles or other components are associated with the different mechanisms. And if they used electrical impulses to map the mechanisms, How or where did they apply the probes?

Take a look:

http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.haskins.yale.edu%2Fsr%2FSR029%2FSR029_04.pdf&ei=2xKHUIKxLYGm9ATQkIDwBQ&usg=AFQjCNEklTr90GuUOIVKe38PSBjt2LzaYA

http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=27&ved=0CFUQFjAGOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.haskins.yale.edu%2FSR%2FSR025%2FSR025_11.pdf&ei=3hOHUM7kL5GB0AG30YHQCA&usg=AFQjCNE2h0ykqqt9LIVSXhZ1jn5yj0AmSQ

http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=37&ved=0CFcQFjAGOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.haskins.yale.edu%2Fsr%2FSR025%2FSR025_10.pdf&ei=bxSHUMHCA47m8gS8uIHwBg&usg=AFQjCNG0WK97UWTjuKD3P1t4FbmE1sjYiA

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Thank you Felipe,

It will take me a while to process the info. I am not a fast reader like some of the others on this forum.

By Robert, Owen and Rachsings posting I have finally understood that I had the wrong impression of the meaning of the Vibratory Mechanisms and how they relate to registers.

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I had the EMG test done because of my unilateral vocal cord paresis..All I can say is not a fun experience and it definitely will not help with singing.:D:cool::P

It's not actually the help with singing that led me to ask my question. I had made statements that from my definition were correct but could be and were misunderstood in reference to the accepted definitions.

As far as you unilateral thingamajig. Was it vocal exercises that helped or did you use some kind of medication?

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mdew is not so straight forward as it seems at first glance.

Methods of trainning are not done for modeling the human voice, but for trainning it. Genius uh?

If for example, thinking that your voice is comming out of your eyes and it has a whale flying above your forehead helps doing what you have to, great, thats the reference. As long as you dont start to believe in flying whales, its all the same.

Head and chest, could be called whatever you want. But, for male voices, if you want to use full voice and keep it in one piece, you need a trainning of a particular accoustical ajustment that is not different than using a new register. Its a different world after you ajust it, and all the trainning of legatto, vowels consolidation, the boring stuff, has to be done again. Its not even gradual, it works best if you define one note to do it, and do it always on the same place.

So, its not a physical register of the larynx? Of course not, its important that you know that, you dont want to break or trying to walk into that break as if it was a secret register. But you will have this different coordination of your vocal tract that you better keep track, or you will have a short carreer. So maybe you dont wanna call it a register, you wanna call it a "vowel posture with formant tunning particular for a part of your tessitura". Makes no difference for me.

Its also important because this same ajustment is used outside modal voice, both for projection and protection. The stress level on M2 can be just as high as in M1. It simply is not larynx registration. It does influence the larynx COORDINATION to allow sustainning of the register and reducing stress considerably, yes, but it is not a register in itself.

If it causes confusion... Well, call other names if you will. Once you DO both, I assure you confusions vanish.

These ajustments MUST be addressed in one or another way, and legatto and definition of vowels must be kept as intact as possible.

Of one thing you can be absolutely sure, you have just two things to use to train different coordinations, sounds you already CAN make (vowels), and mental images to help guide into still unknown directions.

You cant move these muscles with the finesse required in any other way, you will just find brute force moves that causes tensions.

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The questions and answers have guided me to use coordinations that I have not experienced before.

For example: thinking in modal terms keeping a somewhat uniform rate of vibration when rising in pitch letting whatever needs to happen happen in a relaxed way. Even if it is merely keeping my mind occupied so my voicebox can do what it wants to do to get the job done, it has helped. :/ Confusing ain't I :P

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Thank you Felipe,

It will take me a while to process the info. I am not a fast reader like some of the others on this forum.

By Robert, Owen and Rachsings posting I have finally understood that I had the wrong impression of the meaning of the Vibratory Mechanisms and how they relate to registers.

Ya, if you want to be scientific about it, don't think about registers as 'up/down - low/high'. Think of them in terms of changes in physiology with the vocal folds and I suppose other physiological factors.

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I dropped out of school to be a singer. No math involved. :|

Dude, me too... me and math don't go together... I don't get it really... can't do basic algebra... one reason why Im doing this and not designing airplanes at Boeing. But I'll bet Formica can really lay down the calculus and trigonometry!?

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MDEW, I don't doubt it. You can sing great without it. However that doesn't make it less important.

Daniel, no I knew that before hand. And If you knew more about it, I'm sure you wouldn't just say "vowel". ;)

I am here because there are many important things that I know nothing about. I wasn't poking fun at you. I was poking fun at me. I am more of a visual person than a numerical person.

I looked at other research before coming here and saw things like research on passaggio that would say things like out of our group we found 2 of our group who use 20%m1 to 80% m2 while navigating passaggio and 2 who use almost all M2 ...... Other things like cluster H1, h2 , h3 to F1........ :| Ok what does that have to do with singing? :(

But from the help of good people like you at least a 1/4 of it makes sense. I'm gettin better :P

Thanks. :D

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