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Iridal

Took the plunge! I bought Pillars...

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Story of life, right, never enough women to make the party fun?! :-P

Breakin, I agree and disagree... or maybe its just my experience and where I've lived... but I find way more male coaches than female for some reason. I also don't think the no break in puberty thing holds for everyone, only if you sang through your "transition". I didn't, so I didn't have a technique to hold on to at all. I also don't see how hard rock is more technical, its just different, and to top it off I feel the industry is more forgiving to men with a limited range than it is to women. I think media is much harsher on women to be "perfect", gotta look the part and sing like crazy. Sure we can find examples of extremes on both ends, but I see a lot more guys getting away with a limited range and sub-par vocals than women. Males may sing the passagio, but girls that top out at where I do won't make it far, so I don't see that as harder on men, just a different challenge.

I also don't know what overdrive is, but belting as that one instructor was trying to do it really just resulted in yelling to get the note and it hurt. So yeah, didn't do that again. ;) For me, a C5 is my "head voice". I feel that "switch" pretty dramatically. I hesitate to say "head voice" because it doesn't sound hooty, I can get it to not sound opera like, but its still using those muscles and only those as far as I can tell. A4 I can sing in my chest, but sometimes it sounds better to let it flip. There doesn't seem to be any mixing or cooperation between the muscle groups for me. It feels like one or the other, even if the "head" part I can get to sound a bit fuller these days. I don't get how other girls do it. Maybe I'm just not cut out for this, but I guess I'm gonna try.

I think that experiences will vary depending on where you live. Around here in Gothenburg Sweden, I feel that there are more female coaches, but I could be wrong of course.

I could sing through most of my range before puberty. Then I was robbed of a lot of my range and I'm still struggling to get out of that. Being a low tenor there aren't really that much left if you leave out the high stuff :)

I guess you are right on females having as much requirements. Just meant that certain typical males categories such as metal etc are very focused on highest note, powerful scream etc. Very technical. But I agree that the female divas compete with highest note as well...

Oh well welcome here anyway! I will not comment on your thoughts around A4-C5 since, being a guy, I can't relate. Myself I have my first trouble area around G4 or so, but I definitely tense up a lot between D4-G#4 so I guess I start to struggle at D4/E4. For females I think the corresponding notes would be a half octave up, but I'm not sure :)

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Anne Wilson of Heart took lessons from "Maestro" David Kyle. He was a male and actually came from a classical and stage background.

There are a few female coaches who teach rock singing.

I have looked at Robert's youtube channel and he helps singers, regardless of genre. One lady liked country. Another liked torch songs, ala Barbara Streisand. Another like bluesy songs.

So, I think, it doesn't matter the gender of the teacher, as long as they help you.

Why are there more guys in here than girls? I don't know, except that, as I said before, a number of long-term members are into hard rock and heavy metal. Maybe too much testosterone here.

IDK.

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Owen, I think you said it best. For whatever freaky reason some forums, especially this forum seem to be male-predominate. Over at the dog forum that I would go to, nothing but women, I might be the only guy there for months. And that is because most guys think they are born knowing how to train a dog because they have watched too much "Dog Whisperer" and think you only need to walk like a boss and whistle at a dog to change their ways. It's a little more involved than that and women are humble enough to seek the advice of others.

That the natural range of most or many women interested in singing puts them smack in the middle of where contemporary pop music is. Either to where they don't need many lessons to belt. Or, just as possibly, the get lessons locally, many times from a choir director or glee club director. Women also tend to be interested in having their own sound, rather than being praised for being a carbon copy of someone else and as such, a number of women may not be interested in discussions in how to sound just exactly like David Coverdale. That is, they may want to be the next Christine Aguilera but not necessarily sounding just like her.

Whereas, a lot of guys hear "that" sound and want "that" sound and have an unbendable religious faith that with the right technique at just the right amount, you can sound exactly like whatever singer you are trying to sound like. And we'll spend all day and all night proving and disproving each other. :lol:

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Since I'm still waiting for this download to finish up, I didn't check the forum for a few days, and lookie all the posts I missed! Eek! I'll check more often from now on. ;) Besides, its good reading...

Robert - Still waiting! Should be done over the next 2 days... with my luck though there will be an error in the download and it won't open, but here's to hoping. Keep your fingers crossed! Because I have no idea where the hard copy I ordered is going... I'm guessing to my home in the states...

Everyone else: I agree and disagree on the "women are born with it", because I am not. I know girls who seem to be able to "belt", however it is they do that, past that A4 that is blocking me, but I can't. I have tried, and it isn't healthy. Honestly most of the girls I hear that do it live are also very unhealthy, they just happen to be sustaining it. What I will agree on is that it is easier for us to hit our "head" voice easier because most of us learned to do with when we were little, but for most of us it is weak because we don't use it. We focus on that chest voice and belting, and not everyone can do that naturally.

Where I top out right now just isn't acceptable if I want to get anywhere. No, I don't want to be the next "Xtina", but I would like to be able to sing a more varied list of songs... I'm not a bad singer as it stands right now, but I am limited. The oddest feedback I got when I sang in a cover band was that it was surprising I didn't cover anything done by women, and it sorta hit home. I couldn't. I mean I guess I could have re-keyed everything but as the songs stand as written I can't do a lot of them, and that bugs me. So here I am.

Oh, and lastly, I'm used to being one of the only girls around, so no worries. ;)

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It is a very interesting question about women here... where is Gina... she can tell us? I think guys are more geeky about voice technique. Singing technique is a sport, and guys like to talk about the challenge and how to 'conquer' it.

Owen, in regards to the need to train female passaggios being less then men, that is not true. Women crap out at around Bb4 and fall flat on their faces without any of the same strengthening and coordination men do around E4... however, its true that a lot of pop songs sit comfortably in their belts. That's why when I see Journey Tribute bands and the singer is female... its just lame... cheating... that is not the point when it comes to singing Steve Perry...you have to actually sing it with a male vocal tract for it to not be a 'cheat'. Anyways, I digress... I don't know why more women are not in here... i think it is boring to them.

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Robert - Hahahaha, well, I'm a little odd for a woman. I'm an engineer for one, so I think I tend to be more analytical than most of my counterparts... ;) But you're right, most girls I know are of the "got it" or "don't" mentality with singing, its not something any of them view as being able to get better at. Well, other than the few classical style ladies I know. Its a bit weird really.

And thank you, I'm glad to see you talk about the Bb4 glass ceiling, so many people I know think I'm crazy to feel the way I do!!! I'm confident I can work on the safe way to exceed that standard. :)

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.. you book will be shipped today... Im stuffing books today... have about 23 back orders... but these are the latest updates with 8 new lectures, 60 more pages of book, an improved training routine and most cool... the new 'Training Media Interface'...

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APO is military, right? Yes....

Gil, seriously? I won't forget about you bud...

Im about to call FedEx/Kinkos guys and they had better have those things done... Sometimes those guys are like the three stooges when it comes to getting these book assembled properly... but I expect good things.

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Awesome!! I wasn't sure because there was no way to enter an APO in the regular address section, so I put my home address there and then put my APO in the comments... pretty excited. :)

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Ok, Im at FedEx/Kinkos now (the company in the USA that puts all the books together), and they are getting done... so yes, back orders are going out tomorrow morning to everyone, but Gil... ;)

jk Gil... luv ya...

Coach

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Awesome!! I wasn't sure because there was no way to enter an APO in the regular address section, so I put my home address there and then put my APO in the comments... pretty excited. :)

If I send it to your home address, I'm assuming that is ok, correct?

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Owen thats just not the case with women... Women have à hard time belting moreso Than males. Women generaly tends to sing in mixed or head and having à reallyhard time hitting chesty highs. Why do you think whitney houston was famous if all women came with the born capability to belt as High?

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Owen, I suppose? If you can kinda get away with it without training and doing it better... I guess you can be lazy and not take lessons... but that is an insufficient answer in my view.

Jens, your right... I neglected to mention that... women are a bit more confused generally with high chest voice and belting... the big 'win' here for women is to learn to dampen the larynx, even in belts.. women tend to dampen the larynx more early and more 'urgently' then men do inside of M1, if they don't want to sound like a screechy duck... you might say that larynx dampening is 90% important for men and 100% critical for women who are 10% more challenged on the formant tuning because of the smaller vocal tract... I do offer an essay and graphic illustrations of this for my female clients in "The Four Pillars of Singing"... I have taken the effort to give some special attention to this issue of the female vocal tract tending to be a bit more shreeky in general... so if that is the 'bad news"... the flip side is equally exciting... those women that DO master the dampening and learn to tune their formants / vocal tracts to not sound like a duck and screech... become very unique in their gender among singers... half of male singers can dampen or do decently not knowing... but Id say only about 20% of women dampen naturally... because of this slightly higher sense of urgency for dampening for women exists, I have invested special graphics and essays on the topic in my book for the ladies... not sure how many voice coaches actually address this problem head on... but TVS teachers do. Its #1 priority when a lady walks in the room. So female singers... learn to dampen your larynx and you will sound like Whitney Houston and blow people away...

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Robert - my home address will mean my sister will have to re-mail it to me where I am right now, but if this digital download (91% done!) works its no big deal. APO would be preferred though.

And your bit on the female voice in the above comment makes me more confident about this approach... I don't understand all the terms you're using yet because I haven't finished downloading the material, but knowing that its an acknowledged issue makes me feel better. I do know women that can naturally belt higher, but again, to my ears it doesn't sound healthy... and I've heard a number of men comment that they sound screechy at times. I don't want that.

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From what I can see of Robert's students, which is the real report card, you will be singing "Crazy on You" by Heart before you know it.

I don't know what genre you like but that song is one of my favorites. I can sing it, too. But there's something in a woman's timbre that makes it special, I think. But then, again, at times in my life, I have been told that I sound like a woman. Which is ironic because I don't look like a woman. Not in the slightest. Although, one friend dared me to dress as a woman for Halloween one year, but I was not willing to shave my moustache, even for a good laugh.

:D

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Robert: Yada Yada Yada, just send it already!

Joking bro! :)

Gil, maybe I shouldn't tease you about it,,, you have been very patient.

When I tease... its my way of showing affection for people... It means I'm growing fond of you...

I have the books here, they look beautiful!... and yours is shinny and new in the mail tomorrow morning.

Thanks again for being a good sport Gil... your a great client to have.

Robert

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Thanks Robert!!

Hard work but enjoying every moment!!

I appreciate everything you are doing for me.

Much thanks!

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Ok, I think it all downloaded last night. But I also think there are some errors... the majority of the content seems okay though... I'll have to poke through it when I get home, I didn't have a chance before I went to work this morning. As long as the video and audio files are all whole, even if the interface doesn't load for me due to download error, I can work with that. :)

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Please excuse me for being kind of off topic here.

Robert, could we say that what Iridal and gilad just acquired is already Pillars 2.5? If so, will you make available (via download) the upgraded and/or new content at a special price for the ones of us who bought one of the first releases of Pillars 2.0 (Agust 2011 in my case)? Or is it still 2.0 and 2.5 is meant to include even more innovations?

(This Training Media Interface stuff is really catching my attention, hehe)

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Good question Antonio... Yes, these guys have the latest update and its pretty significant.

1). Steve Fraser edits/proofs for scientific accuracy and other details.

2). A 6th edit proof on my part for much improved cohesion/flow, grammer, typos and I have added essays and supporting lectures for:

-- Vowel Modification Translators & expanded tables

-- Consonant Modification Translators & expanded tables

-- Appoggio

-- Introducing a new Tongue Position

-- Introduction of The Vibratory Mechanism definitions for vocal registers

-- The new 6 Specialized Onsets for Head Voice Development and its matrix and in-depth explanation and application.

-- Completely redid the TVS Training Routine and broke it into 3 phases and now it makes more sense.

-- Added a cool, "The 15 Critical Success Factors for Your Training"... which elaborates on what I believe to be the 15 things you have to have together and be training... focusing your time on... to pretty much guarantee success.

-- "Popular questions about your training"... a list of Q&A that are the most popular from clients answered in the book.

-- About 6 new graphical illustrations.

So ya, its pretty darn significant... click this link and you can download the Table of Contents to get a feel for it... compare this to previous versions... and you have the proof in the pudding if there are any doubts...

https://thevocaliststudio.box.com/shared/static/dsvd2rex3ys6bmukqmu6.pdf

And if that were not enough... I am SUPER excited and proud to offer not just my clients, but for the first time in the industry, a user-friendly application that organizes all the content in "Pillars" into a media player with menus and links. We call it the "Training Media Interface". Its just totally cool you guys... but beyond the 'cool-factor'... "Pillars" really needed this... there is just so much content in "Pillars" that we needed to develop this. It radically thrusts the product forward in quality and benefit to the customer. It will radically make learning to sing... easier!.. and not that you guys care, it radically cuts down on manufacturing costs because of messing with 9 discs, Pillars now has 1 HD data disc now. BTW.. those of you that like the old files in a folder approach, that is still in there... you lose nothing and gain everything... It honestly is one of the top 5 business decisions I ever made in my life. Its brilliant , it really is... TVS customers win big time from this...

It is available right now, anyone that owns previous copies of Pillars can get an upgrade for a reasonable fee, of course...

Here is a link to a screen shot for the TMI.

Anyways, thanks for asking and yes, you can get an upgrade and 'Pillars" has never been more cool, feature rich and polished... Of course I have had no life for three years, but... its been worth it to build the BEST training product in the business.. I honestly think I have done it finally... :/

Anyone that is interested in the upgrade, feel free to email me...

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Thanks for your prompt answer, Robert. With just that glimpse of the new things now included, 'me has abierto el apetito' as we say in Spanish.

I guess I can wait until January to upgrade to 3.0 when it is ready

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