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Is it worth singing songs in head voice to develop it?

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Overdrive
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I'm wanting to develop my mix and head voice. I keep seeing this "goog" exercise but I don't think I've been seeing a difference, is it a really slow process or something? Can I just sing along to some Bruno Mars in my breathy weak upper register and have the same effect?

Also everything sounds better to me when I kind of "pull chest" voice and yell those high notes, but I do get tired fast. What if I work with that and then my voice gets used to it and then I don't get strained or tired anymore? (maybe that's impossible?)

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What Bob said.

So, overdrive, why are you afraid of headvoice? That's kind of a rhetorical question, really.

Yes, do a song in headvoice, even for practice, even just to use a "funny" voice. You will learn things you didn't know before.

Do some scales in headvoice. No one says you have to record it, unless you want a review of it. It is a TOOL. It is a thing for TRAINING. Doesn't mean that you will always sing that way.

Are you afraid someone is going to hear you making these sounds and, what? Laugh, cry, not react at all, say something snotty .... ? Okay, that wasn't rhetorical.

Now, time for some tough love. Make the sounds, without fear of reprisal. Have some backbone. Do what you are going to do and stand up to anyone that finds fault with it. Seriously, stand up straight, get right back in their face. You will find 98 percent of people that get snide with you are weak bullies. And you call their bluff, because that is what it usually is, and they go away. And if they stay away, they were never your friend and you are better off without them, trust me.

And yeah, I sound girly on some stuff. What are you or anyone going to do about it? I am 6' 6", 225 lbs (102 kg) with some martial arts experience and a "devil-may-care" attitude. You can't stop me from making "silly" noises.

See what I mean? Have some faith in yourself and that the work you put in will have some benefit. So, get some of that bravado for yourself. I've got some to spare. I'll give you some of mine.

What's the worst that is going to happen? You do some head stuff for a while and maybe don't like and go back to chesty blasts. But at least you took a diversion and maybe learned something. Sometimes learning what you don't want or can't do is important, too.

Ron, the peace-loving redneck hippie with short hair with a tendency to confront confrontational people and get in trouble for it, :D

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work the head voice and it will grow over time. do exercises to strengthen it.

descending slides

sirens

may, may, may (to build strength)

do it!!

Thanks Videohere, about how much time do you think it takes for the head voice to develop when using exercises like these daily? (let's say if we did them for 30 minutes a day, would it take a month to get a decent performance worthy head voice?)

What Bob said.

So, overdrive, why are you afraid of headvoice? That's kind of a rhetorical question, really.

Yes, do a song in headvoice, even for practice, even just to use a "funny" voice. You will learn things you didn't know before.

Do some scales in headvoice. No one says you have to record it, unless you want a review of it. It is a TOOL. It is a thing for TRAINING. Doesn't mean that you will always sing that way.

Are you afraid someone is going to hear you making these sounds and, what? Laugh, cry, not react at all, say something snotty .... ? Okay, that wasn't rhetorical.

Now, time for some tough love. Make the sounds, without fear of reprisal. Have some backbone. Do what you are going to do and stand up to anyone that finds fault with it. Seriously, stand up straight, get right back in their face. You will find 98 percent of people that get snide with you are weak bullies. And you call their bluff, because that is what it usually is, and they go away. And if they stay away, they were never your friend and you are better off without them, trust me.

And yeah, I sound girly on some stuff. What are you or anyone going to do about it? I am 6' 6", 225 lbs (102 kg) with some martial arts experience and a "devil-may-care" attitude. You can't stop me from making "silly" noises.

See what I mean? Have some faith in yourself and that the work you put in will have some benefit. So, get some of that bravado for yourself. I've got some to spare. I'll give you some of mine.

What's the worst that is going to happen? You do some head stuff for a while and maybe don't like and go back to chesty blasts. But at least you took a diversion and maybe learned something. Sometimes learning what you don't want or can't do is important, too.

Ron, the peace-loving redneck hippie with short hair with a tendency to confront confrontational people and get in trouble for it, :D

haha I like you Ron, I find it interesting to ask myself sometimes "what's the worst that is going to happen?" and then it gets me to do more fun things :D

I emailed my response, it would not post in here, Kept timing out. If you actually get it, feel free to add it in here.

Hey man, just wanted to throw this at ya quick - I have read and seen many videos that say they key to getting a strong mix is to do the "goog" excersize.. But not until after you have been doing scales and sirens for about 1.5 hours. Then wait a half hour (for rest) THEN do them. I used to just do them right after my pillars work out - and didn't notice anything. Now, I notice a huge difference when I do the 1.5 hour workout, then rest, then goog goog goog. Hope this is helpful.

~Keith

Thanks a lot Keith, that sounds like an interesting idea and I'm curious to try it out. During the 1.5 hour workout, how devoted do I need to be to the scales and sirens? Is singing along to songs not good for the workout? I'm worried I'll get a little bored with just scales and sirens, but still want to try it.

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You won't be bored once you see the results in real songs. both are equally important (scales ect then actually applying that technique to the songs) Just doing songs won't train your technique as efficiently. have you looked into twang? This is what will help transform your weak, breathy falsetto into more powerful 'belty' head voice notes that sound like chest voice

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overdrive,

your question to me is filled with impatience, which (in retrospect) is a real impediment to progress.

i will tell you this, if you can just stick with it, consistency is key.....do your exercises faithfully, stay focused, and work hard...you will see serious gains.

how long? it all depends...but progress is virtually inevitable...this is from my own personal experience.

have you experienced any gains of any kind yet?

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overdrive,

your question to me is filled with impatience, which (in retrospect) is a real impediment to progress.

i will tell you this, if you can just stick with it, consistency is key.....do your exercises faithfully, stay focused, and work hard...you will see serious gains.

how long? it all depends...but progress is virtually inevitable...this is from my own personal experience.

have you experienced any gains of any kind yet?

Here's the problem with that, Bob ... what if the vocal program you're following will never give you the sound you want, or close to it, and you just don't know about it, and you spend many years doing it every day? That's a waste of time. People want to know WHAT to work on ... and then work on that - a lot, like you said.

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Here's the problem with that, Bob ... what if the vocal program you're following will never give you the sound you want, or close to it, and you just don't know about it, and you spend many years doing it every day? That's a waste of time. People want to know WHAT to work on ... and then work on that - a lot, like you said.

Absolutely. I really dislike the "magic exercises" approach to teaching, and wasted a few years on it. Mostly these days I just practice single note "exercises" to make sure I get everything spot on, and then sing songs. If the exercise is not giving you a sound that's close-ish to your goal sound, then discard it. There's no point doing woofy high "googs" if you don't want to sound like that when you sing.

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work the head voice and it will grow over time. do exercises to strengthen it.

descending slides

sirens

may, may, may (to build strength)

do it!!

He speaks the truth :)

It's going to be very discouraging sometimes... we speak in the lower register often and neglect the register which makes us AGILE. However, you need to believe that if you keep putting in the effort the ultimate result will eventually come. You don't just develop an amazing head voice in one day... if you have the faith and the technical skills you WILL achieve a great head voice.

- JayMC

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Personally I always combine exercises with songs. Having said that I do not think the bruno mars breathy weak voice will do anything for you. I would instead come at it from the stronger chest voice - trying to find the right vowel shading that reduces tension. Practice the song with a strong voice - short durations - each day. As you become comfortable with the song you'll find you need less and less forcefulness and also the ability to sing longer each day. You fatigue fast because the inter arytenoids fatigue really fast. As you progress - your coordination will become more efficient, the inter arytenoids will become stronger - and less needed, and you'll be able to sing the song with less weight - but not breathy or weak. That's the approach I take and it works for me. I'm sure others will disagree with this approach:/

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I really appreciate this discussion. So far, the only improvement I have noticed in myself is that when I am "fresh', I feel well connected between my head and chest voice. Soon I start to get spontaneous fry though as my voice gets tired.

One interesting idea I came across today is breathing in and out very slowly. Basically breathe in for 10 seconds and then hiss out for 15, and do this 10 times in a row. The reason I find this so interesting is because I realized I have a very difficult time breathing in slowly, and I don't know why.

I can breath in for 5 seconds and then I feel like I'm filling up too much and I get uncomfortable. I think I am simply breathing in too fast, and I am not sure how to fix this. (This is where I saw the exercise:

)

I think having great breathing might be a key to high notes because I know that high notes should take less air, and I have often heard that I have poor support.

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Bob, yep.

Basicly you can only trust completely on an execution when you simply dont have a choice, but doing it right. What jon says is also correct, and thats why I say its so important to check results and references before trainning anything at all.

Combine both and you simply will not have an option but to learn it properly.

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felipe, i respect your opinion, and i hear what you're saying, but there's a lot to be gained by consistent practise with simple, basic, core, staple, exercises aside from spot training which is another issue.

of course, i'm speaking from my own experience..i cried myself to a stronger voice..i got much results from head voice slides, sirens and simple scales.....plus all other kinds of basic exercises.

d.i.y. is a harder road..

i'm not a teacher, but i contend that just "moving the voice" stretching the voice", working out the voice nearly everyday leads to growth....growth leads to strength and strength leads to efficiency...

i will even go far as to say (i know some will not agree) that even if you are doing something not totally correct, but just trying to do it, (as long as you aren't feeling pain) will produce a gain.

i recall a few years back when i would do so many may,may, may, scales with chest musculature never concerning myself with "going into head" just singing "may, may may" (no clue what i was doing, just liked to do them) going as high as possible (sometimes straining, sometimes not) and now when i do them, i just lift them up into a mix all the way up my range. the gain was scary, because there was no head voice chest voice just one connected voice...it really took me by surprise...

i can hear and feel and (most importantly) sense the gains i am making...

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Bob what you describe is exactly what I have in mind everytime I tell someone to study . But it does get to higher levels when you get orientation, its innevitable man, one small interference does a huge result. Small interferences every week and serious practice is what makes your voice really start to do what you want with ease.

I, like you did, sang everything in chest voice, pressing every last bit of voice out and supporting like hell out of it, mei mei and all this stuff. When I began trainning with my current coach, he told me I already had SOME strenght because of all the pushing, but I still had to use like 6 or 8 months to build strenght on chest voice.

And I still have to do exercises to maintain it. And will have to keep them going as long as I want to sing. There is no choice here.

Im just pointing that its important to check what are the results of the trainning you are doing, because to dismantle something after this kind of consolidation I think that the only way is electro shock therapy to try to reset your brain hehe.

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not sure i completely follow you, but i think we're sort of on the same page.

sometimes i just want to yell out to these folks and say "just do it!!!!"

don't over analize it, just do something!!!! lol!!! in this last six months i have really had some awesome gains. some came about and i have no idea why or how, some i do.

but the gains do come.

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I believe you totally Bob. Me too!

And the answers are sooo simple and obvious that we dont see it. Its problems and lack of skill, just that. Its not something you learn to do overnight.

It sends shivers down my spine reading people saying they learned "how to support" in one week. You dont learn support, I can teach the idea to any 7 years old in one hour. You train it. In 6 months, if you are diligent and pay attention to details during trainnig, you may have a well supported chest voice and head beginning to come together, but the end result is something for years.

Or maybe they think we are all retards or they are genius... Who knows. Then again, how many sang that simple easy song on the session with us? The thread was all fuzz and even calling for Queen songs and God knows what else... But that one simple, and easy song, which I know very well is near impossible to do justice without having at least some control, was done only by us.

More and more Im beginning to see that a lot of guys here are more into writing than actually singing :).

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sometimes i just want to yell out to these folks and say "just do it!!!!"

Excellent point. Whether it's the question to try this or that technical thingy, or whether or not one should practice this or that certain scale. Or whether one should go light on the warm-up and spend the energy on songs.

Whichever it is, do something. Just writing about it only exercises the fingers.

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Also, the only way to escape a fear of head voice (people have been alluding to you saying you feared it, i don't know where you said that, but if so...) is to use it incessantly. You can't overcome fear of anything until you do it a million times. The head voice does take a long time to develop, but it won't develop at all unless you work it DAILY.

Yes, daily, and without fear.

A few more maxims often quoted by my old friend, Lee.

The only easy day was yesterday.

Accomplish the objective regardless of obstacles.

Second place is first place for losers.

Corrollary to that, it pays to be a winner.

"Can't" is not in the vocabulary.

Others, for example, might say "I can't do head voice. I can't allow myself to sound girly, weak" (whatever description.) Well, there's a difference between "can't" and "won't." As long as a student knows the difference in their motivation and abilities. A person of normal height cannot touch the ceiling like I can. That "can't" is a matter of physical limitation, or physical barrier by means of one's structure. But "won't" exercise head voice because of what it may sound like, at least at the beginning, that is a choice of aesthetics and reasoning based in psychology. It's not a physical barrier or structural defect, it's barrier that is .... what is that word .... I know I've heard it before .....

Oh well, the first sign of aging is loss of memory. The other thing is .... the other thing is? .....

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