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Is there a name for this technique - and where can be learnt

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p_n_g
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Hi,

I've recently found a video, where a guy improvises beside a piano.

Link ( I can't embed cause it's not on youtube ) :

http://apps4.trilobita.hu/mch3_media/static/01/player/MediaPlayer.swf?code=f7zzsu

There are about 3 or 4 improvisations there, and all of them contains a ( vocal fry ? ) like low notes, around

F#1 - D2 ( 50 - 70 Hz ).

The last bit is a scale starting from around middle C/one step lower B, and goes down to at least G1. A swtiching happens at about D2, you can clearly here the resonant change, and vocal fold set into a different motion.

My question is : Is there a name for this special technique/can be learnt?

Thanks in advance,

p_n_g

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Before you start. If anything ever hurts, never do it.

1) Lower the back and front of the Larynx and push the base of your tongue down your throat as much as you can. Keep your mouth closed until you are ready to produce the sound. Use a yawning motion if you are having trouble.

2) Use the part of your diaphragm located right under your ribcage and push it in hard inwards and upwards.

3) By this point you should feel an extreme amount of air pressure on your hard pallet when you attempt to exhale. Direct the air towards the lower front of your Larynx and let the air out slowly. You want to use the reflection of the sound waves and acoustic from the nasal passages/hard & soft pallet to get as much air as possible going down your throat and the pressure should go all the way out to the tip of your lips.

This is how you get extremely low bass tones. You should feel your your lips bulging in a fast pulsing motion if you aren't letting any air out. This is actually the same rate as the frequency.

Let me know if anything goes wrong. That should be enough info to get you on the right track.

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It works both ways, your just accentuating the heavier parts and slowing things down. A fry is just adding a croaky quality when you sing low so you don't so you don't have to generate as much resonance and resistance and in turn it makes notes a lot lower.

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Before you start. If anything ever hurts, never do it.

1) Lower the back and front of the Larynx and push the base of your tongue down your throat as much as you can. Keep your mouth closed until you are ready to produce the sound. Use a yawning motion if you are having trouble.

2) Use the part of your diaphragm located right under your ribcage and push it in hard inwards and upwards.

3) By this point you should feel an extreme amount of air pressure on your hard pallet when you attempt to exhale. Direct the air towards the lower front of your Larynx and let the air out slowly. You want to use the reflection of the sound waves and acoustic from the nasal passages/hard & soft pallet to get as much air as possible going down your throat and the pressure should go all the way out to the tip of your lips.

This is how you get extremely low bass tones. You should feel your your lips bulging in a fast pulsing motion if you aren't letting any air out. This is actually the same rate as the frequency.

Let me know if anything goes wrong. That should be enough info to get you on the right track.

?

I really am unskilled, after all. I've never been able to direct my air to just one part of my larynx or lower the front and back separately or in conjunction. I've also not been able to push my diaphragm inwards and upwards simultaneously. That must be an advanced technique that I have yet hear about or read about. I'm also missing out on feeling an hard exhalation against the hard palate.

Lowering the tongue down in the throat just makes me sound choked. I must be doing something wrong.

Then, again, i just re-read and these are instructions for basso training and I'm not a bass. Interesting, nevertheless.

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Hi,

I've recently found a video, where a guy improvises beside a piano.

http://apps4.trilobita.hu/mch3_media/static/01/player/MediaPlayer.swf?code=f7zzsu

There are about 3 or 4 improvisations there, and all of them contains a ( vocal fry ? ) like low notes, around

F#1 - D2 ( 50 - 70 Hz ).

The last bit is a scale starting from around middle C/one step lower B, and goes down to at least G1. A swtiching happens at about D2, you can clearly here the resonant change, and vocal fold set into a different motion.

My question is : Is there a name for this special technique/can be learnt?

p_n_g

p_n_g: This is a very trainable technique. For a bass-baritone, it is called a 'lower extension', and its very trainable. The sound is not a vocal fry, or you would not be able to tell what note it is. However, to train it, vocal fry on the lower notes of your current range are very useful.

The approach that all of us in the University choir were taught to access this sound, is to let the throat relax and to just let the spoken voice learn how to work down there. While it takes some support, it does not take effort, or deliberate attempts to direct the air anywhere.

At the laryngeal level, the singer has let the CT muscle disengage, and is doing all the pitch change with the TA, and with a very low amount of air flow. From a resonance perspective, the fundamental has moved down so that the 4th or 5th harmonic is now aligning with F1, so it does not sound fat, but rather thin and pingy. It certainly does not project much (you can tell that from his recording), but the notes are real, and when using a mic, can be very effective. Here in the US, 'gospel' basses use this sound all the time... quite often down below C2.

I hope this is helpful.

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Hi,

thanks very much for the answers again.

@Steven Fraser :

This is a very trainable technique. For a bass-baritone, it is called a 'lower extension', and its very trainable. The sound is not a vocal fry, or you would not be able to tell what note it is. However, to train it, vocal fry on the lower notes of your current range are very useful.

I noticed that there is a clear difference between the vocal fry and this, but I didn't know that there is an other technique to achieve this low sound. "Lower extension" - when I search for it, in the web it alway mentions vocal fry ( maybe I'm not searching for it properly )

The approach that all of us in the University choir were taught to access this sound, is to let the throat relax and to just let the spoken voice learn how to work down there. While it takes some support, it does not take effort, or deliberate attempts to direct the air anywhere

Now this is interesting. So I just need to speak in my normal voice and try to lower it? Is there some other practice that I can do? When I let go of my throat muscles, my voice disappears, am I not doing something right?

What I noticed in the video that this guy need to adjust his posture/throat/larynx when he tries to sing these low notes.

An other question : You mention spoken voice - so it isn't singing? Is there a difference?

At the laryngeal level, the singer has let the CT muscle disengage, and is doing all the pitch change with the TA, and with a very low amount of air flow.

How do I let go of the CT muscle? ( I assume this is why this voice sounds not so fatty ), is there an exercise to do this? How does it feel ( so how could I know that I have let my CT muscle disengage )?

From a resonance perspective, the fundamental has moved down so that the 4th or 5th harmonic is now aligning with F1, so it does not sound fat, but rather thin and pingy.

F1 - is it the fundamental frequency? In normal speaking voice the 1st or 2nd harmonic is aligned with this?

It certainly does not project much (you can tell that from his recording), but the notes are real, and when using a mic, can be very effective. Here in the US, 'gospel' basses use this sound all the time... quite often down below C2.

Yeah, I know, a good microphone can do wonders :P

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  • 2 weeks later...

I jsut heard about something that uses the false vocal cords ( throat singing ), and while not quite the same as this, is it possible that this guy also uses his false vocal folds? Or is it done only by the normal folds?

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Hi,

I showed this to one of my friends, and he noticed a difference between the voice of a "normal" Basso Profundo, ans this guy.

A normal Basso Profundos vocal folds are like a Bass-Guitars strings. Thick and tense, and its thicknes which gives the low frequency.

This guys vocal folds, are like a loosened-up strings on a normal guitar. When you do this, you'll notice that the guitar sound has been lowered, but something has been lost.

So, is it possible to loosen up the vocal folds without being more thick, as the thickness would cause the vocal fry like sound.

I've also found that this guy has a homepage, where he states that he can "over-relax" his vocal folds, I don't know if somebody knows here what this means.

http://www.kayamar.hu/en/special-talents/23-the-vocal-range

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Hi,

I showed this to one of my friends, and he noticed a difference between the voice of a "normal" Basso Profundo, ans this guy.

A normal Basso Profundos vocal folds are like a Bass-Guitars strings. Thick and tense, and its thicknes which gives the low frequency.

This guys vocal folds, are like a loosened-up strings on a normal guitar. When you do this, you'll notice that the guitar sound has been lowered, but something has been lost.

So, is it possible to loosen up the vocal folds without being more thick, as the thickness would cause the vocal fry like sound.

I've also found that this guy has a homepage, where he states that he can "over-relax" his vocal folds, I don't know if somebody knows here what this means.

Makes sense to me, from my personal experience.

The difference between bass guitar and regular guitar is an excellent example of what I mean about differences in structure betwee different singers. I am not a bass or baritone.

Nevertheless, in a recent song I have been doing, it comprises the lower half of my range. It includes a note that is really low for me and involves what I think Steven was calling "lower extension."

It feels like a fry to me and is at really reduced volume. I have also tried that note with a purposely lower larynx, which made it sound covered, but it did not give it anymore volume. So, on the last take, recorded with a dynamic mic, my last and lowest note is also almost imperceptible (not quite close enough to the mic.) Mics, especially dynamic mics with their pick-up pattern have a proximity effect. The farther away, the less bass response.

The song is in the key of Gb and I think my low note was probably an Ab2, which makes sense because on any given day, even my fry has broken up at G2. No mas adduccion.

Even though others like the warmer qualities in my low end and think that I eschew all things baritone, I do not. And I really have Steven to thank for that. A year and a half ago, I put up a song that I thought was baritonic, because it certainly felt like "chest" to me at the time. And he noted a lack of ring or ping that should be present in a baritone at the notes I was singing. And I resisted that notion, at first. But he was right (he usually is.)

Anyway, realizing that I am not, never have been, never will be a baritone has really freed me to exercise another Fraser-ian bit of wisdom. Your range or fach or voice type or whatever you want to call it is the region where you have the greatest ability to change things like volume, texture, etc. The dynamics. Which doesn't preclude you from extremes of range. I think it is possible to be a tenor, such as myself, and still get a few notes in the 2nd octave.

But I also valued the advice of Frisell. As a tenor, you might lose some of your lowest, crackly notes. Live with it. Have a good cry, whatever, but decide if you are a tenor and then be one. That is, train like a tenor, and then, keep training like a tenor some more, ad infinitum.

So, I don't spend much time at all worrying about fry or notes even below C3. For I am like the guitar with the strings loosened, as opposed to a bass guitar, at proper tuning, simply has the large fat strings that can create the full tone at the low pitches.

Didn't mean to create such a long post but yours struck on a number of issues important to me.

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Yes, I understand you. I'm a Bass, but I also have limits. I'll probably never go lower than Bb1, but it doesn't matter.

What I'm interested in some vocal techniques. So if you click on this Link

http://apps4.trilobita.hu/mch3_media/static/01/player/MediaPlayer.swf?code=f7zzsu

and listen to the last part, where he goes down from middle C, you'll notice that the guy also has a limit at about E2.

Now after this he switches to a different mode - and this mode what interests me.

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Man, that dude can get low. He or may not may be true bass, more likely, some kind of baritone, but he can go way below me. I tried to match what I think was the E2 and all I could do was growl. Not even a note, just a noise coming from throat and no volume, just a noise.

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Felipe, I have seen that one before. I like the way his jaw shifts to his left as he goes higher. And, near the top, even though his hands can play the higher notes on the piano, his vocal pitch remains the same (disregarding the scooping of notes.)

So, are you saying that the first guy, the one doing the Bobby McFerrin type of vocal symphony thing doesn't know what he is doing? Or is it because he's not super-thin and a has a beard?

I was just wondering if you can clarify so that I know what you mean, for academic reasons, really. The guys in the thread are in water deeper than I can go.

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The one I sent is a comediant mimicing all the people who cant sing one single note decently and send videos in youtube demonstrating "range". The overall quality of both is near the same, or inexistant, the comediant at least is doing it counsciously...

Okay, now it makes sense. There was a video of what was supposed to be the worst cover of "Aces High." But the guy did another "lousy" video where he couldn't maintain the joke all the way through and accidently went on pitch and in proper placement. But here is "Aces High." Notice the guy recording, barely able to do his bit for laughing so hard.

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:P

Ok, I wish I would have this "not knowing what he is doing" you refer to.

As it would be cool to sing a song like this ( from the guy who probably not knows what he is doing )

Especially the part that starts from 1:59 and contains an Eb1.

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