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4th octave thoughts.

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DoverOs
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What do you guys think about the 4th octave? It's in a light whistle voice and it's something that a singer could eventually train to. Mariah Carey takes her voice up to the 4th octave area while singing melodies. It's obviously more naturally suited for higher voices, but It should be able to be trained in lower voices I assume.

Most people who sing to extremes are content with 3 octaves (give or take a few), because that seems the full extent of the head voice sound. But you can still sing beyond that.

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Or he's talking about european notation where the C4 and forth Octave would be C7 in american notation. In european notation C1 is middle C

Yes, he means european notation, where C4 equals C7 in american notation, i live in europe and i know that. I think 7-th octave singing is way too much, there is no need to go that high for anyone.

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agree C7 is over the top, but everyone with a pair of healthy vocalfolds can get there if they spend the time in practice

^

Written by the only guy here that I have heard reach C7. You realize, now that I have mentioned that, you will have to dig up that video of you doing that. Ah, the past catches up with us ....

(insert devil smiley right about here ....)

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It is easy to train your voice to do this, then again I have an almost nonexistent smaller than a pea adam's apple which I suspect gives me far more access to the thinner part of the vocal folds. I don't think people would like the way their voice sounds and it would develop the really bad habit of raising your larynx to learn how to get up that high and then train yourself not to do that once the range you want is obtained.

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No, the thing is this is created by à very basic core voicefunction(vocal flageolett) yet it is extremly undominant in the voice. not Every one Will find this because simply people doesnt:

1.know how to do it

2.have/take the time to actualy train it, it's à rather unrewarding type of training.

3.know how to warmup to get into it

4.know what rules to follow to keep it going since it easily disappears when doing other sounds using the vocalflageolett(strong notes over C5)

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No, the thing is this is created by à very basic core voicefunction(vocal flageolett) yet it is extremly undominant in the voice. not Every one Will find this because simply people doesnt:

1.know how to do it

2.have/take the time to actualy train it, it's à rather unrewarding type of training.

3.know how to warmup to get into it

4.know what rules to follow to keep it going since it easily disappears when doing other sounds using the vocalflageolett(strong notes over C5)

interesting

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Ya by 4th octave I meant range wise, and not notation wise.

Ways I can see it most applied, would be to bump a phrase up another octave. like for me, if I wanted to go a5-c6-f6, but my top head voice only goes to the c6, then I would need a whistle voice. Or just hitting a high whistle note in parts of the song would give more character to it. I'm not sure how well you can really apply it like that, as to Jens saying that it can disappear easily. You can't forget mariah carey either, she goes the whole distance, and has those whistle voice melodies.

@Adveser, it's definitely not easy for anyone with low textured voices. In those cases, the singer will have little to no coordination in head voice, so it takes a while to train head voice, and even more time to train the little whistle voice.

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Ya by 4th octave I meant range wise, and not notation wise.

it's definitely not easy for anyone with low textured voices. In those cases, the singer will have little to no coordination in head voice, so it takes a while to train head voice, and even more time to train the little whistle voice.

Maybe it comes easier for people that listen to mostly high range metal singers who are usually baritones singing in a Tenor - Sopranist range. I started out singing extremely high for someone with a bass/baritone voice. Listening to and copying these guys any way I could manage to get the pitch out and then worrying about tone later is how you built massive range. Again, unless you start out with the intention of being just horrible with a huge range and fixing every little problem later, there's not much you can do. I started out with a five octave range because I didn't care how it sounded at that point. I figured if I could hit the note sounding awful, I could hit it sounding good eventually. That is generally the opposite of what people want to accomplish when they practice and is probably ill-advised. I figured it was gonna take at least 5 years to match what my influences were capable of and didn't care about how I would sound even in a year.

Anyway, my point was that if you find someone with a big heavy voice that sings high you can sing to you'll figure it out. I think outside of metal bands that are virtually unheard of to most, the material to do this with is sorely lacking and metal fans are lucky that they hear this executed so easily all the time.

This is what I mean. These guys have very deep voices, but pull it off extremely high singing effortlessly:

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That's a very informative post Adveser. That would make sense listening to lots of metal singers would help with singing high.

If you didn't get what low texture means, is that the voice is more naturally coordinated in the lower ranges and not in high ranges. It doesn't have anything directly to do with having a low range or a deep timbre.

But I'll make sure that I train it properly, when I get around to it.

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Ive also stood there with five octaves of unstable shit :) they have always said i was à baritone until my voice got stronger. Now i realise im more of à low tenor since My voice isnt that big.

most people that cant do the highrange and can gurgle Pretty low think they are baritones. Low voices are infact very rare.

Also if your technique is good baritones can go as High as tenors.

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Ive also stood there with five octaves of unstable shit :) they have always said i was à baritone until my voice got stronger. Now i realise im more of à low tenor since My voice isnt that big.

most people that cant do the highrange and can gurgle Pretty low think they are baritones. Low voices are infact very rare.

Also if your technique is good baritones can go as High as tenors.

That's a little lacking on information. There are lots of variations in tone, texture, resonance, musculature, passaggio, and lot's of other factors that play into voices. You can't just say, person A, has or doesn't have certain aspects because it doesn't match up with another voice or observation. The first thing I learned when studying range, was that there is no consistent way to classify a voice. My current vocal teacher has even called me a tenor on occasion, yet I'm not that vocal fach.

The whole point of singing 3 octaves(or more), is to make use of the entire vocal musculature and range, not because a certain baritone will go as high as a certain tenor.

I started off with a range from g2-g3, I never had a heavy sound but a lighter sound instead, I'm still most comfortable with my lower ranges, yet I now have a mostly full range from a2-c#6. Classically, I still have that lower/middle baritone area, but I have the tone you would hear in a high baritone or low tenor. So I don't conform to a certain standard fach, but my only concern in my classical singing is to sing as beautifully as I can.

That's how I describe myself, there are 6-7 billion more people with their own voices too.

If you were just keeping your information simple, then I understand that, but I didn't see enough accurate substance, hence this entire post.

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Well yes and no,almost all if the factors you describe are enviroment. how you talk, dialect, personality play HUGE roles in how Our voices turné out.

I dont belive in the whole discussion of Our voices being superunique...

And if i would have i would be singing baritone right now instead of rocktenor wich ive always Wanted.

Our entire voice is mimicry, dont buy into that illusion of your own special sounds only you can make, it doesnt working that way...

If you mimic axl rose for à long period of time guess what? You will sound like axl rose, if Our voices was super special we would have an almost impossible task of learning other sounds than Our own.

I mean ive trained whistles during à long period of time learning from scratch and now for instance when i show it or talk about it people Want to hand me the "specialcard" " it's so easy for you ect"

But that just isnt true.

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I think it depends on what you want to do and are willing to accept.

Jens described me in the gurgly notes bit. My voice never cracked. I went from sounding like a boy soprano to sounding like a woman in my teen years. I always expected my voice to drop, to be more baritone and "manly" like the adult men who were in my life and even my school mates. My friend, Matt, in 6th grade (age 12) already sounded like a man. (Thanks to him, I understood algebra and developed an a bad habit of being good at math.)

My step-grandfather was bass, in speach and in song.

I used to spend effort trying to make my voice sound lower, more manly. A number of times, when other guys mimicked in jest or to offend, they would speak in what was falsetto for them.

Others, recently, have implied that I discard or disparage baritone range. I do not. I love the sound of a fully rounded baritone. I just don't have it, for myself. Sorry guys, but I have nothing I consider usable below C3 and even C3 requires some concentration. I have tried, just for exploratory purposes. But my folds are no longer close enough to adduct by the time I get close to G2. In the morning, if I have had a cold or allergies and have phlegm on the folds, it can sound like I am croaking an A2. Then, I blow my nose, clear my throat, and it's gone.

Please, don't hate me but I am a tenor. With 3 octaves. C3 to C6. But, in that range, I can sing loud enough to make your ears hurt (I've hurt my own ears a few times, lol.) Fortunately, most of the songs I want to sing are in that range.

So, one of my biggest steps forward this year has been to realize that I am not, never have been, and never will be baritone. Live with it. Have a good cry, get over it, whatever. And yes, that does get me some heat. The idea that any and all voices are capable of any and all pitches is fine if you have large, nimble folds. I just don't have large folds. Call it God's sense of humor. 6' 6", 230 lbs, built like a basketball player, with a "little, bitty" voice. It be's that way sometimes ....

But I can appreciate the uniqueness of others, including basses who can sing a C7 and would like to hear more of those. For two reasons. First, a bass singing that high? Way cool. Second, it's higher than I can sing, still way cool.

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Stuff in the 6th and 7th octave gets to the point where you can no longer articulate words and it's questionable whether one should call it singing. It's really just making noises on really high pitches.

I'm actually writing a song right now that has a "screaming" section that goes up to an A5. I suppose if I could "sing" and A6 and add an octave leap to that section it would be a neat trick. But I don't think it adds anything artistically.

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I'm a Bass in classical terms, but one time I was able to hit a C#7 in whistle voice.

The problem is I don't know how to do it again, all that I know that my voice get suddenly very light, when I was

practicing scales in head voice. It felt like I had an other head voice above my normal head voice.

I had no pain, no struggling, and could control everything ( It started around F6/G6 ).

I'm still trying to get back that tone, but I don't know how to achieve it. Any good tecnhique for this?

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I personaly think it plain sux. But if it is what you want, I wont stop you :).

Still as long as technique is concerned, the crucial spot is solving the middle of your voice. In the 4th octave in the american notation, from D4 to B4, the passagio. While you dont have control and quality there with comfort, worrying about whistle is pretty much the same as a beginner guitarrist trying to do tappings or something else super "hey look at what I can do" before being able to play the rhythmic line properly (which is not easy).

Control your voice perfectly first, do tricks later.

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