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my octave sirens... the voice is shaking, can't control it

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Here are my sirens from a some time ago.

And here are sirens from today.

I really don't like it. I think there is not progress at all. Feel constrictions a bit and there is a lot of tremble in my voice... I have no idea how to get rid of this tremor.

I know that I am not dampening my larynx but right now I just try to make it easier to practise. I will add this in future. Embouchure is also a failure but it seems that 'bite of an apple' makes more tension which I am trying to get rid of...

What do you think about my sirens?

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Your not having progress because your breath is still being pushed out and constricted. All the breath that is going into your 'may' is closing your voice off. You need to pull your voice further back and relax your may's more.

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Thanks for your help Dover... Owen, Jens... why don't you guys jump in here as well...

Hi Volcan, you are my student, we have had 1 or 2 lessons, I remember, I think you are in Poland, correct? It doesn't matter. For starters, its good that you bring this to the forum as you can get other feedback, most of it, qualified and with merit. However, why have you not sent me these videos personally? I'm your coach and I need to see these vocal chops more then anyone. I shouldn't have to have a 3rd party notify me that you need help especially if you have produced a great sample to evaluate. These videos are for me more then anyone... Anyways, don't be shy... let me help you.

Now then...

1). see your email for the updated version of "Pillars" with the new Training Media Interface, or "TMI". Inside that book , you will see an updated "TVS Training Routine".

Video 1:

lift your chin

open your eyes, get your eyes off the floor

stand in front of a mirror to ensure that your Embouchure is perfect every time

But I will say in the beginning, its 'ok'... there is merit here...

:43 better and you got some larynx dampening at the top onset.. nice.

1:05 I actually liked this chop... nice larynx, beautiful formant... good, really.

1:37 ??? YOU COLLAPSED YOUR EMBOUCHURE. If you don't keep your embouchure open you are wasting your time completely. Nothing works, with no embouchure when you are training this foundation. You need to train in front of a mirror to fix this issue immediately.

2:17... its ok... but there is too much compression (twang squeeze), embourchure is not quite open enough and you need more respiration... more Appoggio!

2:46 ... ok track & release onset

3:04... collapsed the embourchure again... its just that simple.

3:31 ... no teeth in your embouchure, too much compression, needs more respiration.

4:00 ... no teeth in your embouchure, too much compression, needs more respiration. You are trying to support your top notes with more twang, it isn't the right direction... you need twang... but only about 30% compared to 70% of your respiration or Appoggio support.

You need "Bernoulli fold closure"... vocal fold closure produced by the Bernoulli Effect (all explained in the new book update)... and less fold closure from twang. "Bernoulli Fold Closure" is more efficient, less fatiguing and makes you sound less quacky. Train the 4 components of Appoggio in your copy of, "The Four Pillars of Singing" I just sent you.

Its not all bad, I think your being a bit too hard on yourself... it is nothing I couldn't fix for you in about 15 minutes or yourself.

- fix your embouchure, practice in front of a mirror. don't collapse and show your top teeth!!! BITE!!

- Get your eyes off the floor at the bottom onset.

- Practice your Appoggio techniques , respiration support and get more 'Bernoulli Fold Closure" so you can relax the twanger and sound like quacky.


You DO have good compression... some people don't have that.

Your pitch is good.

Your bridge is actually ok, something that is hard for other singers.

Your instrument has great potential...

Video 2:

:00 - Still no teeth in the embouchure.

I think you should open those curtains and sing out the window if you can, its good visualization. do that.

1:07 Still no teeth in the embouchure... and not enough respiration... too much reliance on the vibratory mechanism. You need to get your RESPIRATION game on... APPOGGIO components!?

3:02 - MORE OF THE SAME... no teeth in the embouchure, too much compression (relying too much on twang, too much vibratory mechanism) and not enough respiration. APPOGGIO components!?

You do have some very NICE larynx dampening moments which I am sure the other guys will comment on that too... your larynx dampening seems to show promise, but you have to get the other stuff cleaned up before we can hear and enjoy the full potential of your larynx movement.


- fix your embouchure. BITE!

- get your eyes off the floor at the bottom onset

- Download your new copy of "The Four Pillars of Singing" with the new Training Media Interface and immediately dive into the "TVS Warm Up & Foundation Building Routine"... you also need to be doing resonant tracking and tuning your formant.... the other steps in this routine.

- read and practice the appoggio respiration techniques in your copy of "The Four Pillars of Singing" and look at th improved, "TVS Training Routine" in the back of the book... Read about the "Open Throat Tongue Position" as well...

- try to RELAX your twanger at the top... blow more air, less twang...

- Begin working on the "formant tuning", "bridging & connecting #2 a, 2b, & 2c" & "TVS Solfege" and "The Nine Note Run".... from your copy of "Pillars".

I hope this helps... feel free to keep the gang updated here as well.

Im interested in hearing others input on this to help out Volcon...

Im going to run and get a coffee and teach for 8 hours now...

Keep me posted and lets take it to the next step and see improvement on the next video...


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Robert pinpointed Alot of great details, I would follow them and I bet you will. What i hear however is just a perfectionist having a, I wouldnt say bad day (cause it didnt sound like it) but a day that wasnt to your satisfaction.

Your vocalising right at the bridge(the hardest part) with the TVS technique so i think your doing great.

However what i think is that you have abit trouble relasing your voice

It isnt training if you dont sound like a chicken(yes the animal!) from time to time ;)

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It was my plan from the beginning to get lessons with Robert, but I still raising my funds :P

That's the reason why I am not going any further, sticked to the octave sirens... I'm afraid of making mistakes by moving to the next exercise just by my own. I need this lesson with Robert as hell but I will wait for it at least a month from now.

Don't want to waist time so I'm trying to comprehend as much as I can from 4 pillars.

Thanks for all your answers!

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One more thing I would like to add, I don't know if someone already said it, but it's worth pointing out "tremors" are often psychosomatic (mind controlling body in laymen's terms). Your body responds to mental commands, and if you are mentally telling yourself you're a bad singer while you are practicing, your muscles will sort of quiver, tense, or act weakly, because of fear. If you are thinking negative while you practice, you are probably going to get nowhere unless you fix that. Find some way to instill confidence in your ability. It's absolutely necessary in order to make progress. I have found that my mindset during my best practice sessions would be best described as "relaxed active forward focus".


There is no dwelling on the past, unless that past was a positive event. All nerves are relaxed as best as possible. All negative thoughts are suppressed and replaced with indifference. All positive thoughts are encouraged. All positive actions are internally celebrated, analyzed, and physically repeated. Everything that will help me do my best is activated. And one of the most active things is mental focus.

When I say singing is mental, I don't mean that you can "think" yourself to being a good singer without practice. Or that you can sing just because you think you can. Just as often, you can sing, have worked hard, and are holding yourself back for a number of mental reasons.

Why is it, after some practice and doing something, after a while, the stress goes away and the beautiful note comes forth? Because, in the beginning, you are resisting the change you are trying to make. You are fighting yourself. And why? Why does a person resist this or that exercise, this or that sound? Because they don't "like" that sound in their voice. Nevermind that it is for training only and you don't have to make that sound for the worldwide premiere of your greatest album, ever. Which is mental. You are stopping yourself. Well, stop it. Stop stopping yourself.

And by the way, give yourself time. Singing is not an app that you can download to your smartphone or ipad while you nuke a Hot Pocket in the microwave. So, have some patience. The patience of someone who loves to sing. From any perspective, any thing that you can do will look like work to someone else. Some people feel the need to view whatever they do as "work" in order to validate it as a worthy use of time, to themselves, to their family. Especially if the family doesn't seem supportive of you singing or pursuing music. They want you to get a "real" job. Like the video for "I wanna rock." "Well, what are you gonna do with your life?"

I wanna rock.

So, rock. Whether anyone else thinks it's valid, or not. Even if you have to get a "real" job. I have a real job. With a whole lot of real stress. I don't need my singing or practice of singing to be stressful. And maybe that is part of the disonnance between myself and others, wherein others think about singing as being "Work."

Singing is my passion and my escape. I'm a bad man because I sing to have fun. And I consider practicing it as something other than work. Because it doesn't feel like work and, perhaps, I need for it to not feel like work. I have to get away from stress.

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Hey Robert.

I am sure you heard about what is going on in Israel, therefore, it is not logical to work on Sirens right now as they sound exactly like air raid sirens. Any other exercise instead? :cool:

Obviously I am joking...

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