Snejk Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 So I had the good luck to find my first band now and we got out to perform... IT'S SO MUCH FUN!!!! I was sooo nervous, shaking like a leaf... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wKqYLjjGOk Here are the two last songs in the set... NOW! The first song, I think I do well considering everything... A bit out of tune here and there but meh, I liked it!1 Now the second one however "Rising Force" a cover song is IMPOSSIBLE to sing... JUST impossible... At rehearsals it goes to hell as well BUT, there is NO way the band is removing it or lowering it. It stays and WILL be played at every gig... Now given I've only sung it in it's entirety 10 or so times but fact remains - I'm no tenor... I just don't have a full voice that can reach those narrow vowels in that high register... So it resultet in my screaming off pitch, trying to attack the notes in a tight, heavy falsetto. A broken crackling overdrive, or a painful mix of both.. Now, what I am considering is just singing it in headvoice... I will sound like a girl and it won't fit the heavy metal theme but at least I will be on pitch... Any thoughts? It's a song I'm going to have to learn one way or the other but it was not made for a baritone like me Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 imo, if the band can't lower it because they're inflexible (assuming that's the case) i'd find another band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I agree.. the band needs to base itself around the abilities of the vocalist... tell the bass player to play his parts using a Ukelele and see what they say. I agree with Video... if they refuse to budge, then send them away.. you've already opened your can of kick ass by going out there for your first time, so the confidence will follow now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 The Swedes are taking over the intranets! :mad: Sounded good to me, sounds as you described it. Couldnt listen all the way because the cat hates all music that I like but I doubt Id even attempt the rising force thingy. Refusing to transpose is something I ha in every band I ever sang in. Rock musicians hate playing in any other key than E or A lol Kör hårt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshual Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Sorry to be the bad boy here but, sometimes, especially in metal band, it's just impossible to transpose the song, if you do that the music will sound like s**t. I'm not talking about blues or rock, but songs with lot of open strings just can't be touched. that's the ugly truth. For exemple try to play Enter Sandman with a capo on the fifth fret, lol and you'll see what i mean. Instead of finding another band, just tell them you can't do this one for the moment and find another song! You'll try this one again in 3 months ;-). Is really not a solution to send them away and find another band, ugly kid attitude and really the cliché of the 'diva singer', you know the guy or girl that tell you that it doesn't sound right because they didn't realize that they were completely out of time or pitch. I'm not telling you are that kind of singer, don't misunderstand my words ;-). In a band you're not alone and it's not only your project, it's the baby of other musicians too. things are different if you're making your own project and find some musicians for it, in this case you could just say what YOU want. My god, aren't there so many cool songs to play.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 But if the band arent listening to the failed vocals they arent caring about the total project as much as "well, I'M sounding good anyway!"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshual Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Right, but maybe they think it's not that bad. There's also a difference between what each member think of is own work, and what he expect from the others, sometime we, singers, expect a lot from ourselves (maybe too much, speaking of me). Nowadays, the singer is NOT the center of the band. Some discussions have to be made, that's simple as that. Because of that i'm singer and lead guitarist hihihihi. C'mon guys, leaving a band because of one song, that's not serious... do you divorce your wife because sometimes she wants and force you to do the washing up, and she don't care that at this moment you wanted to do some vocal exercices. ( lol,just a joke... ). Does this problem have been really discussed? By really i mean, not just ' hey guys, that's too high for me ' during the cigarette break. If there's no other way, you can just say them ' NO I WON'T SING THIS SONG AGAIN PERIOD'. It sometimes work, and this way you'll know exactly if your mates are smart or not. Good luck, playing and singing in a band is a hard thing, so much ego in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yeah, well leaving is a bit extreme lol. Sure transposing can take away from some songs, but I think the audience notices failed vocals more than it not being played in the meatiest key. "Yeah, well, it's part of a trilogy, a musical trilogy that I'm doing in D... minor, which I always find is really the saddest of all keys really, I don't know why. It makes people weep instantly to play [plays and sings] Nigel Tufnel: It's a horn part. Marty DiBergi: It's very pretty. Nigel Tufnel: You know, just simple lines intertwining, you know, very much like — I'm really influenced by Mozart and Bach, and it's sort of in between those, really. It's like a Mach piece, really. It's sort of... Marty DiBergi: What do you call this? Nigel Tufnel: Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump."" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 we all have an opinion that varies...i know every band i was ever in they all asked the same question "how high can you sing" "can you do this guy or that guy"....i think that's how i managed to improve my range in those days...no lessons....no technique...it's call fear of rejection...lol!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Right, but maybe they think it's not that bad. There's also a difference between what each member think of is own work, and what he expect from the others, sometime we, singers, expect a lot from ourselves (maybe too much, speaking of me). Nowadays, the singer is NOT the center of the band. Some discussions have to be made, that's simple as that. Because of that i'm singer and lead guitarist hihihihi. C'mon guys, leaving a band because of one song, that's not serious... do you divorce your wife because sometimes she wants and force you to do the washing up, and she don't care that at this moment you wanted to do some vocal exercices. ( lol,just a joke... ). Does this problem have been really discussed? By really i mean, not just ' hey guys, that's too high for me ' during the cigarette break. If there's no other way, you can just say them ' NO I WON'T SING THIS SONG AGAIN PERIOD'. It sometimes work, and this way you'll know exactly if your mates are smart or not. Good luck, playing and singing in a band is a hard thing, so much ego in there... just speaking of "my days" back a while, the singer was the most important in terms of a recording contract. when i was playing, mtv was just beginning, so physical appeal was another benchmark for success. the musicians were termed expendable. again, just back the old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chele1000 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 How many songs are there to pick from guys? Really....do they HAVE to do THAT one??? As a singer, if a band wants me to sing a song that's beyond my range I say NO. They either take it or bitch about it...whatever. The professionalism of the group is what's important to me. Fine...you can't change the key for a metal song, then pick another metal song. The band has to sound good....all the way around. Best foot forward for everyone.. my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 i'm right with ya michelle. i'd try my best, but if means having to worry about hitting those notes every gig. been there done that. never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgrubb@gmail.com Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Snejk, I don't think this song is out of your range. You simply need to bridge the passaggio and connect in head register while applying twang. This song will not be a problem for you in three months with the right training. Congratulations on stepping onto the stage. Consider this quote and keep singing. It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcomings, who knows the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the high achievement of triumph and who at worst, if he fails while daring greatly, knows his place shall never be with those timid and cold souls who know neither victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt 26th U.S. President Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshJ25 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 So I had the good luck to find my first band now and we got out to perform... IT'S SO MUCH FUN!!!! I was sooo nervous, shaking like a leaf... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wKqYLjjGOk Here are the two last songs in the set... NOW! The first song, I think I do well considering everything... A bit out of tune here and there but meh, I liked it!1 Now the second one however "Rising Force" a cover song is IMPOSSIBLE to sing... JUST impossible... At rehearsals it goes to hell as well BUT, there is NO way the band is removing it or lowering it. It stays and WILL be played at every gig... Now given I've only sung it in it's entirety 10 or so times but fact remains - I'm no tenor... I just don't have a full voice that can reach those narrow vowels in that high register... So it resultet in my screaming off pitch, trying to attack the notes in a tight, heavy falsetto. A broken crackling overdrive, or a painful mix of both.. Now, what I am considering is just singing it in headvoice... I will sound like a girl and it won't fit the heavy metal theme but at least I will be on pitch... Any thoughts? It's a song I'm going to have to learn one way or the other but it was not made for a baritone like me Thanks in advance. I'm going to have to agree with Mark here. You just need to train your voice. Don't limit yourself to what your voice can do now. Of course you shouldn't sing songs that are out of your range but know that with training they can be within your range. I suggest you contact Robert Lunte. He can help you out with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I'd never go on stage to sing something that I wouldn't manage. Offcourse some songs can be hard to pull off perfectly, but you should feel as secure as possible with the songs. As a singer you are very much in focus, and the band will have to listen to you if you say that you can't do a certain song in a certain key. If the band won't lower the key for the song, ask them to remove it from the set until you can manage it. With training it should really not be a problem. It might take some time, but it'll be worth the effort. I think one should never settle with "well, I'm no tenor so screw it". If you want to achieve it you CAN do it. Practice twang a lot and you'll be able to bridge/belt/whatever you want to call it. The first song sounded really great, so just keep working and you'll pull off Rising Force with ease too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fraser Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 So I had the good luck to find my first band now and we got out to perform... IT'S SO MUCH FUN!!!! I was sooo nervous, shaking like a leaf... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wKqYLjjGOk Here are the two last songs in the set... NOW! The first song, I think I do well considering everything... A bit out of tune here and there but meh, I liked it! Snejk: Jumping into this thread a bit late, I wanted to offer some comments to add to what has been already said. On listening/watching, the first thing I noticed is that the lead guitar dominates the mix, even when you are singing. That much intensity of sound in the guitar part will cause you to instinctively respond with a more forceful vocal production. Ask him to dial it back just a bit during your part, and to let it wail when you are not. Your audiences' ears will appreciate the contrast, too. I heard a bit of tendency to just 'throw' your voice at the notes, and some of the pitchiness just comes from that. My recommendation is to practice some of the trickier sections more slowly - alone (without the band), to hear in your musical imagination the exact note you are going to sing before you do it. Just a little attention to it will yield great rewards in pitch accuracy. Finally, talk to your sound guy, and ask him to boost your EQ in the 2800 to 3200 Hz range by 6 dB, and to ease back on your gain overall by 3 dB or so. This will give your vocal a 'cut' into the mix when everybody is playing full-out, without making you sound louder. I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestions about lessons and twang. The top is there, it just needs to be let out to play more often. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Thanks a bunch for the replies guys! I understand how hard it can be to transpose a song, having to relearn a complex guitar solo is not something I'd want anyone to do, just for my sake... Also I feel that if you can't sing a song in it's original key you shouldn't sing the song. There is a reason why it's more popular to sing metal high rather than low I feel VERY fortunate to be able to sing in a band consisting of such great musicians.. I never would have dreamed of it with a voice such as mine. Now, I would really hope to be able to sing Rising Force... The thing is though... Joe Lynn Turner and Mats Leven sing the song all the way through without using head voice... This is what makes me say "I'm no tenor". I hope I can learn to alter my head voice to sound more connected to my chest voice but being unemployed means no singing lessons ;( I do wish I could train my voice somehow instead of just "singing songs" :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshual Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Save some money and buy ' The four pillars' of Robert Lunte, i can assure you that you'll get those high notes. Amazing methods to get a strong head voice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keoladonaghy Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I do wish I could train my voice somehow instead of just "singing songs" :3 I spent 30 years wishing my voice would magically get better. Didn't happen. Finally made a commitment to make it happen last June, got a program and some Skype lessons. No more wishing - making it happen. You can too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 I hear you keola... I do practice but in my own way... I focus on finding my sound and as long as it doesn't hurt or strain I try to alter sounds and register... It's just that I'd like to improve faster but being unemployed makes it impossible haha xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 There's excercises all over the internet, on this forum and youtube are just two examples. Offcourse it's easier to buy a program or go to a teacher for a program to follow but there's nothing stopping you from creating your own program. I think you benefit from reading up on as much that you can get your hands on an pick the best excercises from that to create something of your own. Being unemployed hopefully means that you have some time to spend on vocal practice too. You are absolutely right about "singing shouldn't hurt", but you're wrong if you think that you can't develop your voice. Learn to twang, as stated, and you'll grasp belting/bridging techniques wich will let you hit those top notes in "full voice". "Complete Vocal Technique" ("Komplett Sångteknik") by Cathrine Sadolin and "Stora Sångguiden" by Daniel Zangger Borch can be borrowed at my local library (Umeå). I've only read CVT but I've heard Borch's book should be great too (since you're a swede, check it out). CVT is such a good read, I think every singer benefits from reading it. Here's some stuff about pharyngeal voice (if you practice stuff like this it gives you twang and cord closure, I personally used the witches cackle excercise among other stuff to gain an octave in full voice, I used the one James Lugo teaches in his program but this is somewhat similar): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIDJNUBVHfc And it's not too expensive to buy a program or a book, and seeing it can give so much improvement to your singing it may be worth it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 There's excercises all over the internet, on this forum and youtube are just two examples. Offcourse it's easier to buy a program or go to a teacher for a program to follow but there's nothing stopping you from creating your own program. I think you benefit from reading up on as much that you can get your hands on an pick the best excercises from that to create something of your own. Being unemployed hopefully means that you have some time to spend on vocal practice too. You are absolutely right about "singing shouldn't hurt", but you're wrong if you think that you can't develop your voice. Learn to twang, as stated, and you'll grasp belting/bridging techniques wich will let you hit those top notes in "full voice". "Complete Vocal Technique" ("Komplett Sångteknik") by Cathrine Sadolin and "Stora Sångguiden" by Daniel Zangger Borch can be borrowed at my local library (Umeå). I've only read CVT but I've heard Borch's book should be great too (since you're a swede, check it out). CVT is such a good read, I think every singer benefits from reading it. Here's some stuff about pharyngeal voice (if you practice stuff like this it gives you twang and cord closure, I personally used the witches cackle excercise among other stuff to gain an octave in full voice, I used the one James Lugo teaches in his program but this is somewhat similar): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIDJNUBVHfc i agree with marcus....read everything you can get your hands on and you find you will start to see how it all comes together. it's a lot about exercising the voice (and the breathing too)...you have to put the time in for results. i am the worst when it comes to having faith in the exercises (always feeling like they won't work) but believe me they do...it may take a few months (or years) but they do. And it's not too expensive to buy a program or a book, and seeing it can give so much improvement to your singing it may be worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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