How do you review? Do you consider your criteria responsible?

[ronws]

Every once in awhile, one of the spammers seems to evade my prying eyes..... It isn't often, but I assure you, "TAMEKA" is now HISTORY !!!! :cool:

Thank you, Adolph, for your tireless efforts. You can't catch them all. And when I reply to those spam comments or threads, I do so more for my own amusement than to highlight them.

What can I say, I am a fan of Douglas Adams, non-sequiturs, droll humor. I should have been born a brit, though english is part of my ancestry.

Actually, I'm a mutt. German, english, irish, and scottish.

[napoleonboot]

Damn, that Pet Shop post was the most interesting thing I had read on this thread for while, and it turns out it was SPAM. :D

[Felipe Carvalho]

haha george, focus on the assets... focus on the assets... :P

[Adolph Namlik]

Thank YOU, Ron for noticing my "tireless efforts" and "diligence", as you put it in another post.....

As far as your "amusement", what can I say other than keep it up !!! :cool:

Your humor really cracks me up !!! SERIOUSLY !!! HA HA

It seems that now George is adding to the amusement as well....

Oh well, we can't ALWAYS be serious :lol:

[Guest]

I read something interesting today and it reminded me of this thread. It has to do with sounding like another artist. The author gave a link to a fantastic guitar player, one who copies Stevie Ray Vaughan. He even makes instructional videos on how to sound like SRV. The guy sounds just like him (guitar playing). The author however wonders in his writing about this. The guy is such a fantastic player, the author wonders how he would sound if he put his talent into sounding like himself. Does he expect to be a success on someone else's genius?

Such a great and talented player why wouldn't he want to do his own thing? I can see being "influenced." But copying? The interesting point the author made was that in the art world this would be considered forgery. In the music world it is done all the time. It seems in the Critique my Singing Section it is preferred at times and singers are critiqued for not sounding like the original singer. Why would someone want to? Why copy someone? You should strive to have someone someday copy you! Be influenced by others' styling or vocals but don't try to re-do what they have made famous. That is my view at least. And it is something I consider in critiquing. I usually give points for what is done well in the sample but also subtract points in the same song for a sound alike performance.

[MDEW]

I agree. Sometimes even if we are not judging or being judged on the original singer, If our songs do not have the same feel as the original we may get or give a worse review because of it.

[ronws]

It seems in the Critique my Singing Section it is preferred at times and singers are critiqued for not sounding like the original singer. Why would someone want to? Why copy someone? You should strive to have someone someday copy you! Be influenced by others' styling or vocals but don't try to re-do what they have made famous. That is my view at least. And it is something I consider in critiquing. I usually give points for what is done well in the sample but also subtract points in the same song for a sound alike performance.

And when I first started concentrating on my singing, I was inspired by Axl Rose's power and my favorite singer is Robert Plant. But it was never my intention to sound like a copy of them, or any other singer. And the times I have failed in epic proportions is when I have tried to sound like another singer. Or trying to do something another voice can do that mine cannot. On that endeavor, I injured myself.

Never again.

My voice is my voice and not everyone has to like it. Not everyone will. It's logistically and psychologically impossible for everyone, or theoretically, anyone to like my voice.

And, I think, often, a critique really is aesthetic in nature from whatever viewpoint. I don't get much out of someone judging maybe my "Highway to Hell" cover from the viewpoint of opera singing and those sound ideals.

And I have had some mixed results in singing a song outside of my artistic range, when judged from an opera singing viewpoint. Especially as the song was not opera.

However, if I were singing "Nessun Dorma" or "Don Giovanni" I would expect to be judged by some kind of standard of opera singing.

But, alas, no one is perfect. We can't help but react from our own perspectives. Such as the criteria discussed in this thread. Obviously, some of us are coming from different viewpoints on what is or is not necessary in a critique, how it should be phrased to be of help, etc.

I've tried to see all sides and I am still going to hand out good jobs, even partial ones, if I think it rates, in my opinion. I can get away with that for a few reasons. First, I am an amateur, not a teacher, not someone styling himself to be a teacher of singing. I am a singer and a member of the music buying public. And, of course, some of the submissions are not salable, in my opinion, judging from what sells in public. But can be artistically valid, nonetheless.

And when something is salable, I note that right way, usually with a pointed question or suggestion that the person get it mastered and released, toute suite.

Second, I can say it because, for my taste, it may be alright. And my tastes may differ from that of others. So, if I say good job, that is from my perspective, whether my perspective is valid to others, or not.

And if it's a beginner trying out some new stuff, I take that into consideration, too. In 1977, I started studying Kenpo Karate with our scoutmaster of our boy scout troop. And guess what? He didn't expect us to spar with black belts in the first few months. I guess he was coddling us.

Same with a singer, regardless of background, beginning some new training. They deserve some slack, too, in my opinion. Of course their efforts, as of yet, are not going to compete in the open market place, or even a master class, somewhere.

I understand some people were brought up with nothing but harsh judgement. In spite of my recoollections of corporal punishment, I would be rewarded, at times, for doing the right thing. And that seemed to afffect me stronger. I guess I am a dog, which does not bother me. To me, dogs are noble creatures and many is the day where my dog is better company to keep that some humans.

So, when someone covers a song, I really don't expect them to sound like the original singer. What I do expect is them to be on pitch and have appropriate intensity at the right places, unless they are changing the arrangement. In which case, if they make that work well, so be it.

Which probably makes me a bit odd. But, such is life.

I absolutely believe in having standards,such as good pitch control and some volume and tone. I do not, however, expect everyone to have the same tone of say, Luciano Pavarotti.

[Guest]

[MDEW]

I would just like to add another point that has been aluded to but not actually stated.

Even if support is not entirely apparent in a submission or pitch control is lacking abit mabe also you can hear a flip or two into falsetto, CONFIDENCE goes a long way into the progress.

That is one of the main things lacking in the performance of a lot of beginners.

[Validar]

This issue has been discussed before, and I'll echo and rephrase some of the things I've said before.

Yes, honesty is key. That should be a given. It's all about balance. You should be honest, but not insulting. How you say something is just as important as what you're saying. Unfortunately, we live in a society today that encourages and glorifies ripping people to shreds, which we would be much better off veering away from. Just take a look at some "reality programs" on television and how influential they've been. The world is chock full of people who want to step up with their best Simon Cowell impression any chance they hear someone singing.

I began pursuing music at a very young age. I had a few family members who were supportive, but many who lived and breathed trying to tear me down. Well, luckily, my genuine love for what I was doing and tenacity was stronger than their negativity. But this won't necessarily be the case for someone else. So, choose your words and your delivery carefully.

My method of criticism - find the good aspects and make them known (only hearing what you're doing wrong is discouraging for most), point out the faults and how to correct them, and never let them forget they can "do it" if they're willing to work hard for it.

Very simple.

[ronws]

This issue has been discussed before, and I'll echo and rephrase some of the things I've said before.

Yes, honesty is key. That should be a given. It's all about balance. You should be honest, but not insulting. How you say something is just as important as what you're saying. Unfortunately, we live in a society today that encourages and glorifies ripping people to shreds, which we would be much better off veering away from.

Thanks for posting that, Validar. It is something I have been trying to say. And in my teaching days, I wasn't "nice" because I lacked strength of purpose or wanted to be friends. I was respectful because you get respect by earning it. Even those who like having a heavy-handed teacher can become defensive if it is too much. It is human nature to go defensive and stop listening when being attacked.

Well, I say it's human nature. Maybe it's just me. But once you (hypothetical "you") start belittling me or consigning me to eternity of misery and failure, I get stuck on that point and don't hear anything you say afterward. At least, that is how I used to be.

One of the hardest things for me to do was to receive a criticism at work and see that it needed improvement and then move on to the next thing.