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"singing loud" and "Falsetto"

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MDEW
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I recently read a post saying sing loud while doing ascending slides and you will not go into falsetto.

Did I misunderstand the post or is this true? How loud is loud?

I am told that even when I scream or yell I am quiet. Is there a way to learn how to be loud? Is that also a resonance thing? Or a Twang thing?

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I recently read a post saying sing loud while doing ascending slides and you will not go into falsetto.

Did I misunderstand the post or is this true? How loud is loud?

I am told that even when I scream or yell I am quiet. Is there a way to learn how to be loud? Is that also a resonance thing? Or a Twang thing?

It is a tilt thing.

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I've asked the tilt questions. Still don't know if I can do it. If I sing above A4 have I tilted? Is falsetto a tilt thing?

I think it has to be the thyroid tilt. I used to be able to scream and holler EXTREMELY loud when arguing or yelling for somebody, etc. but lately have not even felt like I had the ability to be really loud, even if I wanted to. I had somehow gotten completely away from having any tilt and being so open and throaty that I was swallowing the sound. Recently I have focused a lot on tilting exercises and it is just natural to be loud again, probably even too natural if I asked other people.

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Pitch vowel and intensity . The louder the more TA involvement . And get loud on the right vowel and it will stay together correctly. CAN YOU HEAR ME.......... I think I sound like a broken record here. Its this simple but it is this difficult, it takes practice. The answers are not in the terms but in the practice!!!

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Pitch vowel and intensity . The louder the more TA involvement . And get loud on the right vowel and it will stay together correctly. CAN YOU HEAR ME.......... I think I sound like a broken record here. Its this simple but it is this difficult, it takes practice. The answers are not in the terms but in the practice!!!

I hear you. I'm just thick headed. Thanks.

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But it's so primitive in us.

The brain naturally knows how to make the voice loud, it's a survival mechanism if you really think about it.

Singing loud is supposed to be easy. Singing medium volume on high notes is the hardest for most people because it requires a more even balance of CT and TA.

I couldn't stop myself from agreeing with this, as I have been saying it for a while and I learned it from other sources, as well. When you find the right resonance, the brain registers the volume as adequate and helps to regulate other things, such as air pressure and air speed.

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I think I'm gonna have to have someone in the know stand in front of me while I am singing to tell me what I am doing right and what I am doing wrong. I cannot tell by listening to myself. I will think that I am singing loud and resonant and others in the room will tell me that they cannot hear me.

I know that I can sing up to E5 using falsetto and I can sing up to E5 with a different quality sound but do not know whether it is true head voice or falsetto with other constrictions.

For the last few weeks I have been wanting to submit several examples but have not had the time to setup my recorder.

Thank you all for your advice.

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Owen posting hits the spot.

Its not easy, and even after you place head voice and consolidate the register, you will still keep doing ajustments, slowly and very subtle ajustments that ammount into a huge difference.

The register, at first, will probably suck and will be almost useless. Ajusting and consolidating it slowly and with a solid reference of what to do is crucial. If not, you will reach notes, but will not be able to sing anything. If not, comfort will never be as good as it could be.

If you try to achieve quality befote you have a very solid control of it, you will have no choice but to strain. Its one of the reasons why its so important to have someone who knows how the process is to say: its fine, continue like that during this week.

And trust me, I know that it is diffcult when learning, I had nothing besides chest voice, not even falsetto. Anything above G4 was a struggle. But you can use the same quality and power you have in chest voice and with the same comfort, if not more.

One ajustment, a single change in the posture of one vowel towards efficiency and your whole voice improves. Do not think of registration as the part of your range you are, but the actions you must do to use your voice in a certain way. Its a paradigm shift. Once you have the means to do it, falsetto and head differences will be clear.

And in the end, as your body learns what it must do and becomes really good at it, you will effectively have one voice. You will start also to see that after its all working, even if you use falsetto you will do so only when appropriate, it becomes actually very hard to use it where it does not deliver a decent quality.

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At this point I do not think I would recognize the proper alignment if it happened. So many things have felt like the proper place to start but have not led to progress.

I believe the strength is there but the coordination is not. Once I know the correct feeling or sound I will be able to make progress.

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And I find myself, M, in agreement with you, Owen, and Felipe, simultaneously. Now, isn't that kind of neat?

It would be great if you could afford a lesson with Robert and his holiday special includes the entire system and I think, at least one skype lesson with him. If you can manage that, it will get you there super-fast. But even if you go with a coach local to you who can hear you in person, that is going to be important.

Because my initial question when reading about how others cannot hear you is, which others'? The same ones that have been holding you back and making you the "black sheep", sometimes for their own psychological needs (yeah, that's some tough love and yes, I do dare to go there)?

Some objective ears will do you a lot of good.

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The only one holding me back is me. I know that. I listen to my voice on tape. I know what is O.K. singing, not perfect but acceptable. I know what makes me cringe and say " What's that terrible sound". Most of the time I am acceptable. I also know when it is not.

My family would let me scream to my hearts content. It is I who will not put them through that.

The others who cannot hear me are the people who I am actually singing to and I want them to hear me.

Ron, even when the gain is turned way down on your microphone you max out on the meters. All things being equal when I am singing with someone else they have to turn my microphone up so much that it feeds back just to match my volume with the other singers.

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The only one holding me back is me. I know that. I listen to my voice on tape. I know what is O.K. singing, not perfect but acceptable. I know what makes me cringe and say " What's that terrible sound". Most of the time I am acceptable. I also know when it is not.

My family would let me scream to my hearts content. It is I who will not put them through that.

The others who cannot hear me are the people who I am actually singing to and I want them to hear me.

Ron, even when the gain is turned way down on your microphone you max out on the meters. All things being equal when I am singing with someone else they have to turn my microphone up so much that it feeds back just to match my volume with the other singers.

Cool, thanks for clearing that up. So, yeah, get a coach or teacher. Someone who will task you to sing to the level you want. Someone who is going to put you through your paces.

A wise man once said, if you are strapped for cash, to seek out people in local opera or theater, at least for basics of singing. Sometimes, you can find locally, lessons for 30 to 50 USD for a session and this guy was quoting his prices from living in New York City. I don't know if that's accurate.

I live in a small town in a rural county. My town has 1 stop sign and 5 churches. So, you might go to whatever church you attend and seek out who is the best singer. Preferrably someone who has actually had some singing training, even in choir and choral work. And arrange something with them. Either cash or barter. Although, if you barter, by the time you are done, you have paid, for you have given time that you would normally get paid for by working in exchange for the lesson(s). And just as importantly, you would have some outside ears to guide you. Once they can say that you are doing well, you can identify whatever feeling in your body with that positive report.

That is, if you are willing to set aside your own estimations of worth long enough to trust this other person.

And that is if he or she is willing to teach you, knowing that you plan to sing something other than choral work. I know of a phenomenal voice coach and singing expert, bar none, and he lives along the route I take to and from work. But he doesn't work with rock singers. He works with students in UIL and choral competitions.

Good luck and may the Force be with you, always.

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mdew, you know i might just be that you have a mental block to singing louder (unbeknowst to you possibly) or you have a perception of loud that is not in concert with what level of involvement you actually need with exercising and singing.

i will tell you this...at some point if you don't learn to really work out the voice, your gains will be like a weightlifter who doesn't add any extra plates to the barbell (not literally of course) but i hope you get the idea.

you really have to lean in sometimes and support..can we hear you?

maybe you are holding back?

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mdew, you know i might just be that you have a mental block to singing louder (unbeknowst to you possibly) or you have a perception of loud that is not in concert with what level of involvement you actually need with exercising and singing.

i will tell you this...at some point if you don't learn to really work out the voice, your gains will be like a weightlifter who doesn't add any extra plates to the barbell (not literally of course) but i hope you get the idea.

you really have to lean in sometimes and support..can we hear you?

maybe you are holding back?

That has all the earmarks of sounding like a mental thing.

Interesting....

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To Both Ron and Video. I agree that it is mental. A warped perception? could be. I have been practicing yelling in my car. Trying to get as loud as I can to maybe reset my volume control for normal situations.

When you really do not know how to scream where do you start? My wife suggests one of those really big and fast roller coasters. :P

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To Both Ron and Video. I agree that it is mental. A warped perception? could be. I have been practicing yelling in my car. Trying to get as loud as I can to maybe reset my volume control for normal situations.

When you really do not know how to scream where do you start? My wife suggests one of those really big and fast roller coasters. :P

That would be great! Make sure someone takes a pic of you screaming like a girl!

Ialready sound like a girl, so, I ain't a-scared of it.

:D

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That has all the earmarks of sounding like a mental thing.

Interesting....

I used to have the same problem, thank god. I used to have to be blackout drunk to sing loudly since there was a time when I was doing so much wrong. This probably saved my voice when I was younger.

I have always known that discomfort and pain are not a part of singing. Stamina that lasts less than 4 hours (for my vocal cord/fold thickness) even when done comfortably is not good either. I've been known to sing for up to 12 hours in a day and the reason is because I do not tolerate discomfort or pain of any kind.

I look at my voice like a combination lock, if all the tumblers are not in place, my voice will not go there. That has nothing to do with tone or sounding good. It has to do with damaging the vocal folds, discomfort and pain. My voice will not cooperate if I tell it to do something that will hurt it.

Edit: I'll also add that I have never done a single vocal exercise. I prefer to learn the anatomy and sensations of a single function or organ and emphasize it until iot behaves like it should and then move along to another one until I've worked out whatever issue it is until everything sounds good. Again, I copy singers, so this is very easy to do when someone elses tone requires focusing on just one thing. Being able to copy half the singers I like has never been good enough for me, so I keep practicing this way. Some of the more stubborn voices are coming around and some of them I have been able to master in a few tries. There are some that were mastered 5 years ago. To me this is how one masters using the voice. I never bought into the whole idea that I needed to use one tone of voice that was specific to me. Obviously, If I wanted to use one single voice on everything that would not be too difficult. It's not an issue of not being able to find my voice, it's that if you can do so much more, why box yourself into a corner? Like I just stated, it's half practice and half because I think the tone of one's voice is a function of songwriting and modality.

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I have always known that discomfort and pain are not a part of singing. Stamina that lasts less than 4 hours (for my vocal cord/fold thickness) even when done comfortably is not good either. I've been known to sing for up to 12 hours in a day and the reason is because I do not tolerate discomfort or pain of any kind.

I look at my voice like a combination lock, if all the tumblers are not in place, my voice will not go there. That has nothing to do with tone or sounding good. It has to do with damaging the vocal folds, discomfort and pain. My voice will not cooperate if I tell it to do something that will hurt it.

Likewise, I seek absence of strain, at least in the throat. My mantra, motion when necessary, in the abs. Note in the head. Nothing in the throat, ever.

Except for one song. I wanted the strain sound, so I used high larynx and constriction. And only did one take, just for the sound effect.

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It's not really strain for me, I don't mind straining. I feel like if you aren't pushing yourself over the edge to practice a metal song, then when you want everything sounding perfect you'll never get close enough to the line. To make an electronics analogy, I sing in cutoff mode because it makes singing in saturation mode so much easier. If you are going to have your voice go into that saturation kind of mode it will be obvious when it falls below that.

Ron, I must say, when I sing, I move everything just a little. I've tried singing with keeping certain parts static and moving only the things that affected what I thought changed the sound in the desired way. I'm figuring out that I have to move everything a little bit and there's no way around it. Move what you can to get the sound you want consistently and then later move the parts that you need to make it sound better.

It's like picking a guitar string, you could use your fingers and keep a stiff wrist or do it the other way, in the end you won't play your fastest without moving your arm, wrist, fingers, rotating the bones in your arm, ect. You have to coordinate all of them with an economy of movement.

That's what I'm getting at, moving one thing a lot is not desirable, moving everything as little as possible is the key.

That's my two cents.

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I used to have the same problem, thank god. I used to have to be blackout drunk to sing loudly since there was a time when I was doing so much wrong. This probably saved my voice when I was younger.

I have always known that discomfort and pain are not a part of singing. Stamina that lasts less than 4 hours (for my vocal cord/fold thickness) even when done comfortably is not good either. I've been known to sing for up to 12 hours in a day and the reason is because I do not tolerate discomfort or pain of any kind.

I look at my voice like a combination lock, if all the tumblers are not in place, my voice will not go there. That has nothing to do with tone or sounding good. It has to do with damaging the vocal folds, discomfort and pain. My voice will not cooperate if I tell it to do something that will hurt it.

Edit: I'll also add that I have never done a single vocal exercise. I prefer to learn the anatomy and sensations of a single function or organ and emphasize it until iot behaves like it should and then move along to another one until I've worked out whatever issue it is until everything sounds good. Again, I copy singers, so this is very easy to do when someone elses tone requires focusing on just one thing. Being able to copy half the singers I like has never been good enough for me, so I keep practicing this way. Some of the more stubborn voices are coming around and some of them I have been able to master in a few tries. There are some that were mastered 5 years ago. To me this is how one masters using the voice. I never bought into the whole idea that I needed to use one tone of voice that was specific to me. Obviously, If I wanted to use one single voice on everything that would not be too difficult. It's not an issue of not being able to find my voice, it's that if you can do so much more, why box yourself into a corner? Like I just stated, it's half practice and half because I think the tone of one's voice is a function of songwriting and modality.

adveser....if you have never done a single vocal exercise, let me be the first (and i'm certain i won't be the only one) to tell you you are missing a tremendous part of the voice development process.

singing songs alone will not get you to higher levels of skill.....these muscles have to be worked in specific ways that singing alone just doesn't allow to the degree you need.

and there will be some discomfort when you first begin training or pushing past a boundary..muscle discomfort just like a new exercise in the gym.....the soreness goes away and gets replaced by more conditioning.

you will experience it one day.... (as i did)....you will come across some song, some section in a song, something, that will make you wish you had taken my advice.

it's actually the exercises (and mental imagery) that gives you the capability to try out different voices!!!

you folks have to realize these exercises are tried and proven to help....to help in so many ways...ways you can't even (pre-think) of!!

did you know it's the exercises, the support, that help prevent the injury!!

please, rethink your current philosophy and get to work..don't fear the voice...use the voice..apply yourself and i can almost guarantee you results.

this is from personal experience....

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Bob has a good point. Yes, I do vocal exercises. It's just not always the 8-tone chromatic every day for an hour. I focus in different problems. Sometimes, I am working on a song and find myself scooping the note. And then realize, in a fleeting moment of clarity, that my onset was wrong, So, I stop and work on just one particular lyric where my onset and articulation was betraying me. And iron that out. (Thanks, Enrico, for the laser-like focus. Thanks Rober, from Pillars 2.0 "onsets are singing, singing is onsets.")

That way, I can fix one thing and then run into the next hurdle. :lol:

And I hope, adveser, that you did not misunderstand me. Nothing I do is static. I've been saying that breath support should be mobile and agile.

I happen to play guitar. Have been, for a while (I won't say how long, as I have already stated it in other threads.) Never thought of locking in one position to play. So, while I understand the analogy, I just haven't ever had a situation where the wrist or any part of the body was locked. The key to guitar is that the expression maybe end in the fingertips but only because all things flow to there. But there are others here who are far better guitar players than I am.

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