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AAproach does it work?

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djalanbri
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I'm sorry if this is posted in the wrong section.

I wanted to know if anyone has tried the newest version of the Arceneaux Approach. From what I understand, Eric Arceneaux teaches the same techniques that Singing Success teaches and he also teaches some breathing techniques (something that Singing Success barely touches on). Another advantage of the AAproach is the videos which would work better for me because I'd rather be able to see and hear him as opposed to just hearing the techniques on an SS CD.

Here's my dilemma, AAproach sounds good on paper to me, but I wanted to know if anyone has tried the later version of it and what they think of it. SS has gotten some good reviews, while AAproach is not as popular. I've been looking for reviews of AAproach on the web but there are only reviews for his older products and not his newest ones.

Here are some of his breathing videos:

What do you guys think? Should I buy it? Also, I am not looking to become a famous superstar. My family and friends are mostly islanders who have whenever they get the chance. I just want to improve my voice so I can sing and jam with them.

Thanks in advance!

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djalanbri:

THe vids are very basic stuff. They are generally correct, but (since they are about inhalation, and not about support) incomplete.

When I say 'generally', I mean that they talk about breathing is colloquial ways, not pedagogical or technical ways. For example, the diaphragm does not really play in the exhalation the way he describes. Its just along for the ride... some other parts of the body are actually powering the exhale.

This can be forgiven. Its, after all, a beginning lesson on low-inhalation, and it is technically and functionally correct in that regard, and does not attempt to describe the role of the diaphragm in actively preventing (or managing) the exhale.

Soo..... to early to tell you if this will be overall useful to you. As far as it goes... sure.

I hope this is helpful,

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I've tried AApproach before it's current incarnation, and I would say that while it didn't automatically fix all of my problems... every exercise I learned from it is still in my arsenal of tuning devices to get my voice exactly how I want it to sound. Arceneaux uses some very effective breathing stretches combined with movement (a little like what Kevin Richards has shown in some of his free videos) that I find really helps open up my support.

Eric Arceneaux doesn't go into extreme detail in his earlier AAproach about any concepts like twang or vowel modification (that I remember) but he does teach to phonate closely to the NG.

My personal opinion is that if one had the ability to read the CVI chapters on posture, breathing, and support, and then work on the Arceneaux approach, it would feel like a rather complete beginners track. It would make for the perfect combination of science-y understanding of what muscles to use and awesomely effective exercises (that are even better when you know what you are trying to accomplish with them).

It would definitely be able to make you a better singer for jam sessions.

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Eric Arceneaux is a good vocal coach and singer.

He's unusually young for a vocal coach, but he's been interested in the vocal technique from an early age.

Don't let that bother you.

He can definitely sing.

Lately, he's been teaching vocal lessons at the Maryland Performing Arts Center.

His facultly bio is here: http://marylandperformingartscenter.com/Faculty.html

Title of the video is "My Youngest Vocal Students - Halloween Performance - Maryland Performing Arts Center".

Here is a video of an actual vocal workshop:

The experience from teaching there has changed his approach.

Something else that he has going for him is that he was turned off by the music industry early on.

I can't believe the stuff the record companies said to him. These next videos are near word-for-word accounts

of what happened to him.

He also has his own singing group:

So unlike many vocal coaches, he not only has private lessons, but he's also teaching

at a performing arts center with many students AND managing his own music group.

Also, he knows what it's like for artists to break into the music industry and would rather

not sell out.

I'd say go for it. He's not one of those vocal coaches that's after your money.

Also, I wouldn't associate him with Singing Success (even though he did appear in

one of their videos). Eric has his own approach and he's constantly perfecting it.

Finally, some notes from his bio on the Maryland PAC faculty page:

**In the summer of 2005, life as he knew it came to a screeching halt, when Hurricane Katrina decimated the city of New Orleans. Eric Arceneaux found himself trapped in an attic for 3 days, enduring temperatures of over one hundred degrees. He survived, rescued from his rooftop by a Coast Guard helicopter, although he watched as other members of his family were not so lucky."

**Eric Arceneaux has performed with recording artists Lisa Lavie, Junior Marvin (of "Bob Marley and the Wailers"), and David Choi. In 2009, director Tim O. was so impressed by Eric's music that he rewrote his stage play "Conversations About Her" - in the middle of its run - to include two of Eric's original songs. Then, in 2010, Eric was invited to perform at the French Embassy in Washington, DC.

**As an opera singer, Eric has sung the roles of Marco in "Gianni Schicchi", Ned in "Treemonisha", and the lead - Uberto - in "La Serva Padrona". As a vocal coach, Eric has been featured in USA Today, Singing Success Online Magazine, and Broadway Talk Radio. Eric Arceneaux is carving out a place for himself in music history - Redefining the term "Independent Artist" for a new generation."

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I've tried AApproach before it's current incarnation, and I would say that while it didn't automatically fix all of my problems... every exercise I learned from it is still in my arsenal of tuning devices to get my voice exactly how I want it to sound. Arceneaux uses some very effective breathing stretches combined with movement (a little like what Kevin Richards has shown in some of his free videos) that I find really helps open up my support.

Eric Arceneaux doesn't go into extreme detail in his earlier AAproach about any concepts like twang or vowel modification (that I remember) but he does teach to phonate closely to the NG.

My personal opinion is that if one had the ability to read the CVI chapters on posture, breathing, and support, and then work on the Arceneaux approach, it would feel like a rather complete beginners track. It would make for the perfect combination of science-y understanding of what muscles to use and awesomely effective exercises (that are even better when you know what you are trying to accomplish with them).

It would definitely be able to make you a better singer for jam sessions.

my opinion? too much "science" can mess things up. stay with the mind and the will to build your voice with tried and true, time tested, proven exercises.

don't overthink the voice...learn to get it to work the way it was intended to. the program (any program) is a guide......you still have the responsibility...not the program.

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I personally think, if you want to learn how to support properly etc.. I'd recommend Pillars or KTVA method.. They seem to demostrate and back up what they are talking about..

Although this guy sounds good on his videos when he's singing his R&B, he doesn't stand out. Ken and Rob (and NO , I am not a student of either of them - just basing it off of what I read and see them actually do), appear to know, produce and demostrate what they teach....

In my opinion, there is a strong reason why the SS program instructors (Singing Success, etc) don't sing in their videos, or sing complete songs with power and conviction --- because they can't.... They just make silly sounds, and use sentences with big words and information noone really needs to know to sing -- they are only sales people. Eric sings, but I don't hear any professionalism with his intonations, approach, tone, or any thing that you would think a "teacher" of the voice should have... He sounds good on some stuff, but he could pass off as a student...

But, as far as the difference between this guy Eric and Brett (for example), is that Brett has more sales people :)

I know there are always sales approaches from all the coaches -- after all it is their bread and butter... but SS seems to take it to the next dimension of being cheesy and gimickie...

JUST my opinion here guys/gals... so please don't get offended... but to Answer your questions... I wouldn't touch those programs.... I would strongly suggest you check out Pillars here, or Ken Tamplin's vocal academy, before you waste your hard earned money...

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I should add that YOU WILL increase our vocal abilities somewhat, but not to a level that you may be happy with...

I compare it to a car... .You are a machine, and SS (SLS techniques), is like putting in premium gas... You will see a difference for sure from your normal unleaded gas, but only marginally...

The other programs will install a supercharged engine, and (for the support portion you mentioned), change out your tires, gas, oil... lol... Now I'm sounding like a sales guy.. haha..

Just watch the videos of those you are interested in.... Pull up a review from actual users of the programs, decide where you want your voice to take you, and HOW LONG you want to train with it to achieve the maintenance level... and go for it...

Happy Hunting - and sorry for my opinionated , long message...

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stratchtracks,

you are responsible for your voice, not the program. the programs are guides and methodology, but you are the one who ultimately has to do the work, and most importantly, figure out what works for you to take you to the next level...........

if you're a d.i.y.'er the road is much harder, and must include a ton of experimentation and some risk.

one program may simply be a better fit for you based on your concept of beautiful tone or sound ideals.

all of these programs have merit.....no program by itself will make you a better singer..you make yourself a better singer.......

and whether we consider a singer "good" or not, is highly subjective at times.

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stratchtracks,

you are responsible for your voice, not the program. the programs are guides and methodology, but you are the one who ultimately has to do the work, and most importantly, figure out what works for you to take you to the next level...........

if you're a d.i.y.'er the road is much harder, and must include a ton of experimentation and some risk.

one program may simply be a better fit for you based on your concept of beautiful tone or sound ideals.

all of these programs have merit.....no program by itself will make you a better singer..you make yourself a better singer.......

and whether we consider a singer "good" or not, is highly subjective at times.

This. You are ultimately responsible for your own development.

You can't expect to only follow someone's program and do nothing else.

You have to experiment, challenge yourself, and do research whenever possible.

Also, paying a lot of money for lessons doesn't mean you'll get good faster.

The worst thing you can do is to go to voice lessons and never do your homework on the other days.

Anyway, good luck.

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I'm still waiting for someone to cover "Booty Bounce." It could spark a new dance craze. And we need one. It's been too long since "Macarena."

(insert devil smiley here)

Just remember, we measure booty by the ounce.

"You didn't tell me about Hurricane Katrina!.....Eric, you are a marketing executive's dream"... :rolleyes:

LOL....the worst part is that the story was true and most

of the dialogue in those clips were DIRECT quotes from

the record company Eric was dealing with.

I can't imagine studying voice all my life only to have the record

company give me "Booty Bounce".

Really. What were they thinking?

*shaking my head*

I'm happy Eric had the sense to get out while he could.

In other news "Gangnam Style" is close to being the first video to hit 1 billion views on Youtube :-(

Note: According to a comment on Youtube, the actual song that Eric was made to sing was

"Drop that Azz". In Eric's "Tales from the Industry" video, the company is called K-records.

But on Youtube, "Drop that Azz" is by Koch Records. Also, search Youtube for "drop that azz"

and you'll get a lot of "booty bounce" videos... :lol:

Here is the actual video:

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Eric's story about his experience with the record executives is funny and sad at the same time. Thankfully, I'm not looking for a record deal or anything of that sort, I just want to be able to improve my voice so I could sing when we have a jam session.

Thanks for all your recommendations guys. I understand that I am solely responsible for my voice and that the self-taught road is going to be hard. I looked into the KTVA method and the Pillars method and they look solid for me. The KTVA will work best since it has video examples that I could use.

I am going to combine KTVA with AAproach and see how it goes.

Thanks!

Edit: somewhere down the road I might look into the pillars program as well.

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I'm already on the highway to Hell, so what's one more sin?

I liked the song. Good beat, good vocal line. But what I really appreciate the humor in it. It reminds me of some of R Kelly's stuff.

And I have been watching sections of Kelly's "Hip Hopera," too.

Then, again, like my own lyric, I'm a bad man.

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VIDEOHERE wrote:

stratchtracks,

you are responsible for your voice, not the program. the programs are guides and methodology, but you are the one who ultimately has to do the work, and most importantly, figure out what works for you to take you to the next level...........

if you're a d.i.y.'er the road is much harder, and must include a ton of experimentation and some risk.

one program may simply be a better fit for you based on your concept of beautiful tone or sound ideals.

all of these programs have merit.....no program by itself will make you a better singer..you make yourself a better singer.......

and whether we consider a singer "good" or not, is highly subjective at times.

Videohere : You are half right, and missed the quesiton he asked.

He wanted to know about the programs and our opinions on them, and not about what HIS capabilities are. He knows his strengths and limitations and just wanted to see how people found certain programs, or get opinions on ones out there for him to decide on.

You have the SLS method from those that he mentioned, and they are not impressive. Yes he will grow his voice doing that program or SS , which I mentioned in my post, but it will be limited and weak.

If he does Lundi's or Tamplin's, he will be strong and powerful.

As you said.. the programs are guidses and methodology to singing, but if I train you to fight, or bruce lee trains you to fight, who do you think will be more powerful and a better fighter??

Same thing...

Remember -- we learn from immatation, and if we are copying those methods, warmups, ideals, etc.. from a weak source -- we in turn will be weak (even if we have the potiencial to be strong)...

As I mentioned, Eric can sing, but he sounds weak and timit and will be limited except for that brand of music... He isn't anything special... the other referenced (Brett Mannings SS course), none of them can sing worth crap on there. I'm sorry, but it's like learning to fight from someone that looses every match they attend... Yeah, you'll get better then what you are, but will still suck in the real world.

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scratch, i hear what you're saying.....but why do you (or does anyone have to assume) that if one trains in the sls method, for example, he ends up as limited and weak?

(your comments above...)

i'm sorry, but that is simply not true, any more than by doing kvta you end up strong and powerful....

so what you're saying is sls and roger love=light and weak, kvta=strong and powerful?

if i buy a set of weider barbells vs. walmart brand barbells, is there any difference?

if a buy a rawlings baseball mit, or a wilson, does buying one over the other make me a better fielder?

does this sls singer sound weak?

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scratch, i hear what you're saying.....but why do you (or does anyone have to assume) that if one trains in the sls method, for example, he ends up as limited and weak?

(your comments above...)

i'm sorry, but that is simply not true, any more than by doing kvta you end up strong and powerful....

so what you're saying is sls and roger love=light and weak, kvta=strong and powerful?

if i buy a set of weider barbells vs. walmart brand barbells, is there any difference?

if a buy a rawlings baseball mit, or a wilson, does buying one over the other make me a better fielder?

does this sls singer sound weak?

I hate to be that guy - I really do - but I've had a bit of a horror story with SLS/BMS, so I feel I should share my perspective on the pedagogy.

I've taken a dozen lessons from a handful of Brett Manning Associates and have completed both the Singing Success and Mastering Mix programs, and I can say with confidence that I've never been given a single exercise with the intention to increase my power. In fact, I couldn't get a grip on belting until I started going into my car late at night and yelling as loud as I could support. The coaches would tell me that my technique was "technically perfect", but would either evade the question or outright refuse when I asked if we could start developing strength. Early on in the Singing Success program, Brett makes the claim that the baby sounds are only for temporarily conditioning the vocal folds to bridge, but, on the final disk, those sounds are still the only exercises provided - no mention of sirens, transcending tone, etc. In their defense, I like how the closing disks handle vowel modification; they understand that singers can't always maintain intelligibility when heavily modifying every sound in their higher range, so they attempt to train closed formants alongside open ones.

In short, SLS is a great foundation for bridging, maybe even the best. However, for those who want to tackle genres beyond country and R&B, additional training will be required, whether it be from one's self, 4 Pillars, Raise Your Voice, or this KTVA thing I keep hearing about but am too poor to consider looking into.

Also, out of all the coaches I took lessons with, Chris was the only one that would demonstrate power in the context of a song. It's a shame he left a few weeks later.

I think that's enough pessimism for now :)

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You are right, one who trains in which ever method will not necessarily be weak or limited, as the same holds true for something like KTVA method being strong and powerful...

HOWEVER, the tools / technique / approach / methods / and what not WILL dictate which road you will go down..

What I'm saying is this ...

Open throat (bel canto) technique is used for broadway production, rock and roll (heavy rock) etc, for a reason.

Lets cut all corners here.... Grab the best trained bel canto student / singer (even take from KTVA or Lundi's group -- since they are the most popular ones on the web), and the best SLS (brett manning) student...

Have the SS student sing a Judas priest song with conviction.. or led zeppelin, or broadway productions. Grab that person, and put on stage without a mic, and tell to project their voices to the entire statium - like they did before microphones.... They will fail ... That is not what they are trained for.. they are trained for speech level singing -- soft and gental -- R&B, Soul type of music...

Now, grab the one from the other side..... Can they do judas priest, led zeppelin, broadway productions, project on stage to a filled audence.... Yup... Why??? Because thats what they are trained in.....

Get that student to sing R&B, Soul, etc.. Can they do that?? Yup....

so again... You have a Yaris. 1 you drop a super charge into it, the other just change the unleaded fuel... Yes the one with the fuel, will be able to go 20 miles faster, but that's it.... The one with the supercharge goes 100 miles faster, and can still cruise with the yaris with the unleaded fuel..

And yes.. compared to KTVA Ken, he is weak..

The examples you gave with the barbells and the mit's don't fit in this discussion because you are assuming the methods are the same... The only thing in common is that they both make noise.

Chris Keller (the youtube video you posted), is the best SS singer they have...

If you watch Chris's technique, he is not singing in SS style.. he is singing in Bel Canto style where he was classically trained for years before joining Singing Success...

It's obviously that he is not singing in SLS fashion So i'm surprised you quoted him... How about showing the other 100 instructors that teach at Singing Success?

But regardless... Im not here to argue... Just look at the majority (cause there will always be exceptions in everything style), as to the type of music their "training" brings them to...

To the original poster.... Choice is yours bud... whatever you decide, just do the research first to make sure you won't be too disappointed...

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not arguing, just a friendly discussion on this end....

how can a program of exercises dictate what road you'll go down?

i just don't understand why so much leaving it up to a program? when do you reach a point where you move beyond the program?

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Bob poor orientation is terrible, specially if you trust it. SS to me is snakeoil singing, and being associated with the name to me is something of questionable ethics to begin with

That said, I saw videos of this person on the past, seemed very responsible and aware, not the kind of zip up non sense. Id give it a shot.

Just a small remark, sls singing, which is not SS, has its origins exactly on the more evolved belting thats used on brodway, which in its turn is an adaptation of the italian classical ideas, less covering and higher larynx, although its more "speech like" than "speech level". Oversimplifications are most surely bound to fail and support is even more important than in classical, since with the covering some protection also goes away.

I know awesome SLS teachers and what they teach is pretty much the same I know, although approaches do vary.

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Okay, reading about the Bel Canto method and other classical methods got me really intrigued, but I can't find any type of training online for it. Is this type of training only available from a real teacher or are there any programs that I can study for now? I would get a teacher, but I can't right now because I'm going to school. Studying at home is my only option FOR NOW.

I already purchased AAproach, so I'm just going to study that for a while and then move on to either Pillars or KTVA. I don't think I'm going to even touch SS, so it's out of the question now. Any thoughts on KTVA and Pillars?

I am looking for something that could train my voice to sing some R&B, Jazz, Reggae, maybe a little bit of rock, and pop decently.

Thanks for your help!

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i don't know folks...maybe i'm wrong.

ktva teaches power singing and it's a great program, but if you aren't gonna give it all your all, it's just a program.

what program teaches you to give it your all?

djalanbri, a lot of bel canto books are pretty pricey.

here's a video series that's informative:

http://belcanto.myseriestv.com/

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not arguing, just a friendly discussion on this end....

how can a program of exercises dictate what road you'll go down?

i just don't understand why so much leaving it up to a program? when do you reach a point where you move beyond the program?

When you have a program of exercises and you are following them you would generally stick to what was in the exercises instead of adapting to another style. Most us who have made gains made them after we had support properly explained to us. And given the advice of train like you sing. With the same intensity.

I went through several months of lip bubbles and googs and gugs and mums with nothing to show for it because I was using a light approach that was part of the instruction.

When I posted a song here I was told that I have no support and that was a big part of my problem. I was given the same exercises from people on this forum but told to perform them with more intensity, louder, with conviction.

The program usually dictates the level of perfomance. It's not actually what exercises you are using, but how you are doing the exercise.,

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aaaproach ss sls ktva its all the same just different teachers marketing. ktva gets his stuff from ron anderson who got it from seth as ss did and aa. They are all branches its like a vocal family tree..herbert caesari wrote a book called voice of the mind which is bel canto based off of castrati singers, Also Antonio Cotogni founded what became known as the "Roman School of Singing". Among those who studied under him during this period were the world famous tenors Beniamino Gigli and Giacomo Lauri-Volpi and the leading baritones Mario Basiola, Benvenuto Franci and Mariano Stabile. Two other star singers, Jean de Reszke and Mattia Battistini, consulted him as well. That was the old school Bel Canto and through the years with some of this and that it became the programs you see today. Seth Riggs was one to put it into a program and market it. From there many people figured ways to put it into a program and MARKET IT and other exercises from coaches or college prof who taught and so on.

no magic pills just work at whatever program you get and remember "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!)(SOUTHPARK)

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