Stairway to Heaven outro

[srs7593]

Been a while, thought I'd drop by.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43014170/ZOOM0014.WAV

This is something I banged out in one take last night without really warming up too much. Other than a bit of a false start, I think as far as my ability goes, it's a respectable take. Any thoughts?

Edit: Thanks Ron.

[ronws]

link takes you to an error page telling you that you have not signed in. You need to copy in the public link.

[srs7593]

Opps. Got it.

[MDEW]

Still says sign in for me.

[srs7593]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43014170/ZOOM0014.WAV If that doesn't work I'm selling my computer.

[Adoney]

Man I'm sorry, but that was really funny. It's cool that you can sing that high in head voice, or whatever it may be, but it didn't sound like you had much control or freedom up there.

I'm sure you can work that out by practicing that range more though...

[MDEW]

You don't have to sell your computer. Singing high notes is part of the battle. You do way better than I can but there is still work to do. I do hear promice and it is something worth working on. Maybe if you sang to the backing track you would have stuck to the melody a little better.

You definately have something to work with.

[srs7593]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43014170/stairway%20outro.mp3 I put it with a backing track for some additional perspective. I put it there acapella just to make it honest.

I end up sounding swallowed when I try to modify vowels in that range, but I can't get away with spreading my tone the way Robert Plant and other high singers do. It's far too abrasive sounding with my voice. I know singing it with more support will allow me to place it further forward and in turn give me more control. The deal with that is that there is a good deal of physical exertion involved in attaining that, but it has to come from the right place. If I just think of physical exertion and go at it, that won't do anything good. That's what I'm working on lately, but I can't practice it very much or for as long before I'm physically just wiped out in the sense that my support itself drops out. That makes it hard to ensure that the practice I am doing is good practice. Lately, I can do short, chesty, pretty well connected high notes up to C# and D5, but high songs or sections of songs are what I like to practice to get better. I want to find a balance between a supported, gutsy, sound and conservation of my support.

Hey man, Geddy Lee and Axl Rose sound funny. Keeps folks listening.

[Adoney]

I agree about geddy lee and axl rose.

But hey, don't give yourself too much credit for having a particular sound to your voice. The way I've come to understand is that voice plays a small role in your sound....

...Hereditary mutations in the vocal chord structure probably aren't as significant in most people's cases as you would think... Really, you just have to keep singing and getting better. Every now and then you will find a way to sing that sounds really good, and stick with that till you can't get any better, then keep looking for more ways.

Plant is one of my favorite singers btw, and I personally belive that imitation is one of the best ways to improve, so keep it up!

[srs7593]

I felt the same way about imitation for a while, but now I'm not so sure. I mean, I'm singing music that isn't meant for me. I don't have Robert Plant's voice. Trying to sound more like him might open a can of worms. In my applied voice lessons at my university, I don't try to sound like Kurt Moll. I try to sound like myself. I'm trying to sing Stairway to Heaven like myself. I don't know how to sing like Robert Plant.

I might give this one a few more takes tomorrow or some time. This was literally done in one shot. Again, that's an honesty thing. I've got the backing track, maybe I'll do the whole thing.

[Adoney]

Well, you can tell yourself that... But for me that's self defeat.

A year ago I couldn't land anywhere near two of my idols Russel Allen nor Dio... Today I can do a solid imitation on select works. I do NOT want to be either of them, I want to be unique, but SKILL IS APPLICALBLE. If you have the skill, you can apply it anywhere including your unique sound.

In this respect, saying 'I just dont have that voice' is somewhat self defeat, but you don't have that voice.... not at all.. you can still get a good sound on it. Even if it's not plant's sound, you can use a similar style, etc, and that is still imitation. Try and sound like the greats as much as possible, it will give you direction.

[ronws]

I like Robert Plant, too.

I disagree with the notion that heredity has no influence. I have a favorite question that no one will answer, ever, even at the end of all time, because it means admitting heredity has an influence and some people cannot allow that, no matter how real it is.

It's not that you cannot sing stuff in this range, SRS. You can sing stuff in this range. I would say, listen to Plant, and I mean really, really listen. Throw away all the descriptions, words, schools of thought on how you should sound. We're going to get very zen. If you listen carefully, you will find that Plant has more air in his tone than you do in yours. Someone once or twice described him as using "reinforced falsetto" and I bridled at the term, thinking it was oxymoronic (mutually contradictory.) Now, I'm not so sure that was a wrong description. It did involve a lighter weight than I think your using. But get rid of the descriptions for a few moments while you listen to how he sings. How does that singing make you feel? Capture that feeling and keep it in a jar, like a lightning bug.

And you make some good choices in altering the melody to suit what you can do. Even the off-pitch warbling that Plant does on the original. I could not do that to my satisfaction. So, on my cover, I end on a E5 to wake the dead. Not saying that you need to end on that but if you like to put up a cappela, not everyone is going to know that the off-pitch warble was meant that way, on purpose. Point being, that you can sing like him without sounding like him.

I also think it was a good idea to pick a vowel position and use that to carry you high and you let the articulation of words define the lyrics. That's a good place to start from.

Singing Led Zep stuff is my comfort zone and I don't sound like Plant, either. Jack Russell doesn't sound exactly like him, either. In fact the only person that sounds like the voice on the original recording is a middle-class lad from the Midlands named Robert Anson Plant.

I know you are not trying to sound like him, but it's okay to sing like him, at any part of the range. And singing like him is singing jazz, for he considered himself a jazz singer (still thinks of himself, that way.) And bandmate John Paul Jones described him as a soul singer (meaning soul music in the early 60's, which was still quite jazzy, yet a little tinged with gospel.) To where singing the high notes is not always about clearest diction ( I think you showed clearer diction than Plant) but more about feeling.

Sing what the song means to you.

That's what Plant does. And he does not sing the highest bits anymore. And he never sings the song the same way twice. It's a Led Zep thing. Each performance or recording is a work of art.

[MDEW]

Singing like someone and sounding like someone are two different things. It may be that an artist sings a particular phrase light an airy because that is the best way to sing that phrase for that person.

It used to bug me when I was listening to a song and I could not understand what words the singer was singing.

Now I understand that there are times when you cannot sing higher phrases and keep the correct pronunciation of words. Part of singing like someone is the way he modifies words to sing the higher phrases.

[Adoney]

Ron I didn't mean to say that it doesn't play a role, just that it's not usually a set of chords that defines your sound. To a degree, many people will be able to sound very close to somebody else, and I believe that you can develop your sound in a particular direction whatever it may be.

But I stress that the skill earned from imitation and practice is applicable to any performance, and applicable to any sound... So it cannot be a bad thing.

[ronws]

Ron I didn't mean to say that it doesn't play a role, just that it's not usually a set of chords that defines your sound. To a degree, many people will be able to sound very close to somebody else, and I believe that you can develop your sound in a particular direction whatever it may be.

But I stress that the skill earned from imitation and practice is applicable to any performance, and applicable to any sound... So it cannot be a bad thing.

And I think you misunderstood what I wrote but that's okay, I am used to it.

And it is possible that your one year of changes beats my time. It could happen.

[Adoney]

I don't mean to misunderstand you, I just wanted to make sure you didn't misunderstand me... Sorry about that.

[srs7593]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43014170/ZOOM0020.WAV Well I tried to sing it airy-er like Ron suggested. I also attempted to move it forward as far as I could. As a result, I let it spread and splat a bit more. Played it straighter too.

Other than that, I'm out of ideas for now.

[David]

Sounds much better to me...

[MDEW]

It's sounding better. :)

[ronws]

I liked this second take better, Srs. It sounded more fluid, more relaxed. And I liked this ending better, too. You put your emotion in there, rather than a copy. It sounded, to me, like your pitch was easier to manage, too. You didn't sound strained, like you did on the original. See, now, you are singing like Plant did, though, of course, you do not sound like a copy of him.

Again, I liked it.

[srs7593]

Thanks all. Man, I just wish I could belt the whole thing out like a monster. But there are a few different reasons classical/opera tenors don't spend entire songs shouting high Cs and several more reasons bass baritones almost never do them in traditional music.

I personally actually maybe kinda sorta honestly still prefer the first one a little bit. But that's just my weird self... :|

and I mean there's middle ground to explore, and certainly plenty of places I haven't been yet.

Happy New Year TMV!

[srs7593]

Admittedly, the second is probably more natural in the sense that it takes less effort. But the first has a certain direction that I want to aim myself into if I can. I can't really explain it...

I like Roy Khan from Kamelot and Hansi Kursch from Blind Guardian. I'm trying to channel just a wee bit of that whiny/goofy, hollow, quasi-falsetto, countertenor sound they've got. But they sound very different from each other.

[ronws]

Nothing wrong with a countertenor sound. You can still do things with that. Here's a useless bit of trivia. Dee Snider, singer from Twisted Sister, was trained as a classical countertenor in school. His teacher pronounced him competent in that fach when he graduated high school.

And look what he did with it. And he still practices his legitimate warm-ups and warm-downs before and after a show.

[srs7593]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43014170/ZOOM0016.WAV

Here's an earlier take that I initially didn't think you guys would go for because it's screamy and out of control. But it's got some of that middle ground, and some of that emotion.

[Jens]

Your on the right path, kindo reminds me of myself. Can you do a Third try and put ALL the focus on nailing the first words. If you get those nailed i think everything else Will get into place, give it alot more attitude aswell and à tad more energy(do à few highjumps just before your about to sing to really get your body with you)