How good is she really?

[Witti007]

Hi,

recently I've been working with a 17-year old vocalist. I personally think she's pretty good, but I'm no expert. Here's a sample of one of my songs that she sang for me. How would you rate her performance?

Many thanks in advance.

All the best

Robert

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12087150

[Sound26]

Sounded awesome to me.

The mix sounds good too, I really like the rumbling, walking bass.

There's tasty blues guitar licks going to.

[David]

What kind of rating do you want? she sounds good - style fits music - key/pitch accurate - control is good.. how much is natural or produced, don't know.. but overall - good job.

Music was okay.. pretty generic - well done though, and she owned it...

[Witti007]

Thanks Sound26 for the feedback.

[Witti007]

Hi David,

she sings all the lead and background vocals. Her voice here is 100% natural.The producer insisted on not using Melodyne. I analyized the vocal tracks with Melodyne and noticed the she was very much on target anyway. I saw her perform live and she hits each and every note to perfection - just like you can hear on this track. No matter what genre she sings, she owns it.

What I'd really like to know is, do you think that she's so good that we should do more serious work with her? Do you see potential that she could make it big time? Does her voice have something that sounds unique, any kind of recognition value? Like I said, I'm not an expert when it comes to vocals. I appreciate any kind of feedback you can give me. Many thanks in advance.

All the best

Robert

[David]

Listening to the music again, I actually dig the sound of it now... some reason the bass wasn't emphasized first time I listened to.... still follows a typical feel of that genre of music, which is good and commercial..

She has a great voice (especially with the additional details you provided on your 2nd post).

To answer your queries :

1. I can not see any reason why you shouldn't be doing more work with her..

2. I do not see the potential in her making it big time because although commercial, she sounds generic to whats already out there - but then again, look at some of those that did make it... my dog sounds better then them... damn new rock...

3. continued from #2, I don't hear anything that "pops" which isn't done already out there in a unique vocal. In fact, (especially around the breaks), she has a lot of Rhianna tone to her voice.

But over all, you should continue to work with her, as she does have talent. Maybe it's the wrong song for her, maybe the material prevented her from showing emotional intonations... Who knows... hard to judge with one song, and I'm no professional anyway...

Hell, I thought Katty Perry was going to be a one hit wonder...

2.

[Witti007]

Hi David,

many thanks for the detailed response. That's pretty much what i was thinking.

If you want to hear something completely different from her try this ballad:

Like I wrote above...no matter what genre we try, she owns it. Being a songwriter I just don't know what genre is the best for her.

Thanks again.

All the best

Robert

www.robertbaitinger.de

[Adolph Namlik]

Robert (Witti007),

I just listened to Elisa's ballad >>"I Cry"

May I suggest that you invite her to join "The Modern Vocalist World" AND upload her videos ?

I'm impressed !!!

Regards,

Adolph

[Witti007]

Hello Adolph,

thanks for the kind comments. I love that video clip of "I Cry". I will tell Elisa that you are impressed and that she should post a few of her demos here.

All the best

Robert

[Adolph Namlik]

Thank you, Robert

Please have Elisa join the (Main) Social Media Site as well as the Forum ! I'm looking forward to welcoming her

BTW --- Have you joined the Main Site as well ? I'm unable to ascertain if you are a member given your profile here in the Forum section. If not, I'd like to extend a sincere invitation to you as well :cool:

Sincere Regards,

Adolph

[ronws]

When you say working with, what do you mean?

If she's got "that thing." times a-wasting. Do something about it. Write, record, release. Knock Adele off the number one position. Like, now.

And yes, Adolph can get her videos featured. So, if you have the equipment, make videos. Show them on the main site, and anywhere else you can link them.

We're a picky bunch here but successful singers make money singing to the public, not just singing tech geeks. Though, I get it. If you can pass muster with a bunch of demanding fellow singers, then you must be good and that would be true. But it does not translate into music business success. You get that by succeeding in the music business.

Are you a manager or a voice coach? If you are a manager, start managing, if you expect to earn your 15% of her take.

The work is not in the singing, it's in getting the artist signed and booked and touring. While they are young and have the energy.

[ronws]

To reply to what Justin said about americans wanting to sing in European, such as german venues, part of that reasoning is a career builder. Having read interviews with various singers, including those in opera, and most recently, the memoirs of Renee Fleming, it is difficult to get a primo gig in America. For example, the New York Metropolitan Opera (the Met) is still the penultimate.

So, often, singers go to Europe to study and get some stage time. By the time they come back to America, they have some verifiable gigs under their belt. And in America, we seem to value success in other countries. So that you are no longer Clem Cadiddlehopper from Dry Gulch, Texas. You are Clem Cadiddlehopper, star performer from the (name any german opera house.) It carries an air of mystique. It's like trying to get a job in the trades. They all want prior experience. Well, how do you get some experience if no one will hire you to get experience, to start? So, often, the job gets received by the "good old boy" network. Same with singers. Get with the right teacher who has connections. They get you supporting roles.

Which is not to say that the european stages are any less prestigious than America's. It's just that a number of american singers had to work abroad to get recognized back in the States.

[Witti007]

Ok, I'm a songwriter and a semi-professional producer. I'm not a manager nor a vocal expert. I can't sing myself. Elisa found out that I write songs and we met. Shortly afterwards we recorded our first song together:

It's rock. I'm not sure how light it is. What do you think? This is basically what she wants to sing, not operas. When she's finished with high school she wants to study rock pop vocals. We recorded an EP together. Friends helped us with the production. The EP is available at iTunes and Amazon. To be honest with you guys, I don’t know where to go from here. We've got good songs, get production work and apparently someone who can sing live as well as in a studio. What do I do now? How can I get an A&R guy interested? Any tips or advice is very much appreciated.

That line you didn't understand is "They say that time will heal the wounds and someone new will come my way."

That"s more or less our story.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts so far.

All the best

Robert

[Foreinger]

That sounds really good, professional recording. Though not live, but anyway sounds professionall

[ronws]

Ok, I'm a songwriter and a semi-professional producer. I'm not a manager nor a vocal expert. I can't sing myself. Elisa found out that I write songs and we met. Shortly afterwards we recorded our first song together:

It's rock. I'm not sure how light it is. What do you think? This is basically what she wants to sing, not operas. When she's finished with high school she wants to study rock pop vocals. We recorded an EP together. Friends helped us with the production. The EP is available at iTunes and Amazon. To be honest with you guys, I don’t know where to go from here. We've got good songs, get production work and apparently someone who can sing live as well as in a studio. What do I do now? How can I get an A&R guy interested? Any tips or advice is very much appreciated.

That line you didn't understand is "They say that time will heal the wounds and someone new will come my way."

That"s more or less our story.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts so far.

All the best

Robert

Ken Tamplin, a voice teacher and author of the Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy (KTVA) and owner of his own forum, is also a member, here. He is also a professional singer, not just a teacher. And his career includes worldwide tours as a singer, mainly in the christian rock genre, though he covers secular music in his sample posts for his teaching.

Anyway, in the artist development section, there is an old thread he started. I mean, a few years old. you will have to go a few pages back in that section. In that thread, he lists the music directors at the various big name places like Sony Music, MSNBC, ABC, etcetera. That actual people you want to hear your music if you want to get it synchro-licensed in a tv show or movie. I don't know if things have changed but a few years ago, those people were still preferring submissions on cd, as opposed to file link. Because, with cd, they don't have to export anything. They just take the cd and listen to it on the drive home from work. It's the only real free time they have.

That being said, if you burn a cd, follow this rule. No more than 3 songs on it. And no extended biography or history. And make the first song the absolute best. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT save the best for last. If you do, they will eject after the first 20 seconds of the first track. Put the absolute best first. You have 20 seconds to grab their attention. Is that unfair? Sure. Welcome to the music business. You have to grab them by the gut right out of the gate. Life is tough, live with it. They really don't care about your "artistic integrity." Their very job depends on signing an artist who's singing is going to sell lots and lots of units. It really is a business and the sooner one gets used to that, the better.

Ozzy Osbourne is a unique singer with longetivity. And the uncanny ability to discover unknown guitarists who are absolute geniuses who later become icons on their own, such as Randy Rhodes and Zakk Wylde. But he absolutely, positively cannot take two pennies and make it equal two cents. And he knows and accepts that. But his wife and manager, Sharon, can. It is a business, period, paragraph, and new book. She is the reason he has place to sleep, eat, and shower.

As such, determine the market her voice fits in. And pursue that, like a dog after a bone. And when you get some interest, I don't care if you have to beg, borrow, or steal. Paramount, get a lawyer that specializes in music law. Unless you guys want to end up like Tina Turner did after she left Ike. Totally penniless and starting from scratch. I don't know, maybe you would like that. If you don't get a lawyer, even if the only way you can afford one is to give them a percentage point on the contract.

Now, the real work for you, as manager. Don't book her for gigs and material for which she is not suited. For now, you must treat her voice as a gold mine, a money maker. And someone that mistreats or casts aside the moneymaker goes broke. Every single, stinking time. Period, paragraph, new book.

Did I mention this is a business? While it is tempting to get as many gigs as possible to get exposure, realize that you can ride that horse (her voice) into the ground. She' got to have some downtime.

On the upside, you are writing songs for her. So, just keep in mind where her voice is strong and write the songs there. All this artistic stretching is for the birds if it negatively effects her abilities or longetivity. That being said, let me state that I am one of the few people who admits to liking Celine Dion's cover of "Shook Me All Night Long" by AC/DC. So, if she does cover songs, make sure she does it in her voice.

[SkyKnight]

First off the bass player needs more props!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And second. For only 17 she as a very controlled voice.

Her tonal qualities while subtle has just a hint sultry, a dash of grumble

and her support for her lower register is good. I commonly hear women shy

away from supporting their lower register. This one doesnt and she knows

how to add tone on top of it.

Shes a great vocalist. However she isnt very daring and is singing in pretty much one octave

I just think she needs a song to bring her out of the box that makes her use more of the register I feel

she is capable of and showcases her tonal sultry qualities.

Cheers. She's a good find.

[Witti007]

Thank you Adolph,

I'm pretty new to this site. What is the Main Social Media Site? And how do I join the Main Site?

Best regards

Robert

[Witti007]

Thanks Foreigner. "You’'e No Good" was recorded by pure amateurs, but I do agree with you that the track does sound very professional.

Elisa can sing live too:

She started singing about 12 months ago.

Take care

Robert

[Witti007]

Hi Ronws,

thanks for the advice regarding the demo CD. I can confirm that most radio stations and record companies trash unsolicited demos. Believe me I already tried that. A few years ago I sent hundreds of CDs to labels, publishers and radio stations. These days you really need an accepted business agent or music manager.

You made a good point regarding selecting the proper market for her voice. We tried rock, pop and slow ballads and she sounds great in all these genres. She does cover songs too. She can cover Pink and Adele to perfection. I personally like her versions more than the originals.

I'm not her manager, just the writer of the songs she recorded. I have nothing to do with the booking of her gigs. But I'll pass your advice on to her.

Thanks again for your detailed input.

All the best

Robert

[Witti007]

Hey SkyKnight,

your feedback is exactly what I was looking for here. I take it from you that you think she is a very talented vocalist.

If you listen to the backing vocals of "You're No Good" you will notice that she did leave her "comfort zone" and sang much higher. In that song she sang all the background vocals including the "ooohs" and "aaahs" that were sung in several voices. No pitch correcting software was used in that production.

Regarding the bass…the recording and the mix lost a lot of its quality due to the SoundClick format conversion. The original is far better.

Thank you very much for your post.

Robert

[Adolph Namlik]

Robert,

I sent you a personal invitation to join the main site via your email address. If it is not in your inbox, kindly check your spam folder.

Also, you can send invitations to others by using the "Invite" tool on the main site....

Sincere Regards,

Adolph

[Scotty D]

Let Me Run is a hit. Great song and performance. And I LOVE the unique character of her voice. And an incredibly natural vibrato. Amazing!

[Witti007]

Hi Adolph,

thanks for the invitation. I signed up.

Take care

Robert

[Witti007]

Hey Scotty,

I'm glad you liked "Let Me Run". That track got Elisa on German television recently and that's the song she performed live in front of an audience of over 3500 people. Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

All the best

Robert

[Scotty D]

Hey Scotty,

I'm glad you liked "Let Me Run". That track got Elisa on German television recently and that's the song she performed live in front of an audience of over 3500 people. Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

All the best

Robert

I'm not surprised at all. It really is a great song and a fantastic performance.