What are Rob and Ryan doing?

[keoladonaghy]

OK, this is probably a little light for some of your tastes, but I need to ask. Two of my current faves among singers that are significantly younger than I (gulp) are Rob Thomas and Ryan Tedder. I've noticed, as others have observered here previously, that some of the tastiest parts of their songs are sitting in what is my passagio, and possibly their own. I chose live recordings hoping that it would be a little easier to see/hear what theyʻre doing.

So here's Rob doing "All I Need". As he hits the chorus at 0:48, he does a the song title on an ascending D4-Eb4-E4 run. Shortly after there's a G4 ("cling to…" and a few notes that are higher. I can do this belting but it sounds like garbage. Is Rob still in chest voice, pulling chest, in mix, twang, or what? Any other observations on his technique?

I also noticed that Rob has this habit of very subtley pulling the mic a bit away from his mouth after initial phonation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtcIjoUXe6s

This is OneRepublic's "Stop And Stare". The pre-chorus (@ 0:46) gets into that same range, and then the chorus at @1:00. Same questions apply.

Mahalo in advance.

[keoladonaghy]

PS, you don't necessarily have to like or be complimentary about Rob and Ryan's technique. All opinions welcome :D

[Mr Bounce]

I can't comment much on technique but they are great pop singers.

It still is a bit of a mystery to me how they can sound so chesty through that range. For example Ryan's "Stop and Stare" which is E, F# G#. The only explanation I can think of is that 99.99% of pop singers are tenors... :D

[keoladonaghy]

Thanks, Mr B. I'm holding out hope that Robert, Steven or someone else with golden ears and who knows the techniques can explain what they are doing. Robert has had me adding twang as I approach the bridge and move into head voice. It's definitely added some meat to and smoothed out my tone from top to bottom. I'm suspecting that's what they're doing as well.

[Steven Fraser]

Thanks, Mr B. I'm holding out hope that Robert, Steven or someone else with golden ears and who knows the techniques can explain what they are doing. Robert has had me adding twang as I approach the bridge and move into head voice. It's definitely added some meat to and smoothed out my tone from top to bottom. I'm suspecting that's what they're doing as well.

Keoladonaghy & MrBounce: I listened to the 2nd one today. Here is what he is doing:

1) the entire production is done very easily, in what sounds like Neutral.

2) the piece is pitched so that the exposed, sustained notes in the hook are exactly at the fat part of the top of his chest voice, and he is modifying the /e/ (ay) vowel of 'Stare' toward /E/ (eh) so that he is getting nice harmonic alignment with his resonances. He also widens his embouchure a bit to help with this.

3) Even though the melody goes higher, he takes those quite lightly, almost casually in an unaccented way that is still clear.

4) He does not connect the vocalism he is using in the hook sections with the very high, so there is a tone quality discontinuity that shows up when he sustains vowels above the passaggio.

5) He is not using any twang that I can hear. If he were, the obvious tone quality change he has in this song would not be so apparent. However, I think his laid-back type of vocalism suits the song well, and perhaps he does not want the extra intensity that comes with the twang.

6) Larynx is not obviously low or high, though he does crane his neck out, protruding his chin to get his mouth up to the mic. IMO, he'd do a bit better if he put an extension on the top of the mic stand, even 1' would make a differnence in his neck posture, which would make things a bit more comfortable.

Mr. B: A guy that can handle the F# and G with this sort of tone is a tenor or high baritone. My guess is the latter is most accurate, but who knows when he is using so little of his range in this song?

[keoladonaghy]

Mahalo, Steven. Boy was I off in my guess

If you have any thoughts on Rob's performance in the first video at some point I'd be grateful. That's one song I'd like to work on once Robert helps me get out of my own way with my technique. :cool:

[analog]

Steven,

what are some indicators for voice classification(tenor vs. high baritone?) Obviously not important for pop/rock...but has always been a very elusive concept to me.

[Steven Fraser]

Steven,

what are some indicators for voice classification(tenor vs. high baritone?) Obviously not important for pop/rock...but has always been a very elusive concept to me.

Analog: Low tenor and high baritone have very much the same range, and the tenor passaggio is about 1 whole step higher than the high baritone. Tone-color wise the tenor will soometimes be a bit brighter, but not necessarily.

There are _so_ many types of sound combinations that we could call tenor voices, that categorization is an art, not a science. I personally know a singer that trained as a bel-canto (think Bellini, Donizetti, and coloratura stuff) whose voice darkened as he got older, to the point that he actually sang some baritone roles on the operatic stage... very effectively. Finally, he settled back to singing Tenore Di Forza (dramatic tenor).

One thing that we can say is that to even claim to be a tenor, the dude must have the Bb above middle C very dependably and with control. I also know of baritones that can do a very credible job of singing that, and go even higher. Sherrill Milnes and Joseph Shore (Baritones) have recorded the Bb and the occasional C.

A tenor sounds different on those notes, usually (but not always) quite a bit brighter. However, the tenor usually has the ability to sing in chest to the G or Ab if he wants, and must go to head at the A. For the Bari, as I said, its 1 whole tone lower, generally.

[analog]

Steven,

thanks so much as always!

I guess for me...because of my recent(last couple of years) involvement in "science based" approaches...I am learning how to change the sound color so drastically while also eliminating traditional breaks. It just seems like the whole idea of tenor vs baritone or light vs. big voice becomes a bit murky.

I wonder if it's possible to differentiate vocal fach spectragraphically?

[VideoHere]

gees, i would have thought that "need" he sang at 49 secs. on was a head tone smoothed to a lightly pressed falsetto.