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The Power of EE

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Oh I dont doubt the exercise.

I doubt it will be done correctly. ;)

Clarifying a bit. EE will cause a lot of medial compression thats why tis easier to reach high with it. To be used as an exercise, something that will actually take you to a new level, and yes focal ajustment with EE is one of the best things you can do, you need support, emission and at least a basic understandment of how to register head voice.

I can tell you at least a dozen of things that will allow you to "reach" higher and "sound and feel" strong but thats not the point of trainning. Reaching high is not an exercise, anyone can do it with a few pointers on the right direction.

Specially if you want power and depth, EE will be crucial. Done like this, to just use high notes, it will develop something that will be usefull for a while, but will be out of ballance and will not be something you can trust, its not stable enough to sing on it with comfort. And again, it will result on a narrow focal ajustment that does not sound natural and is annoying.

IF used properly, supported, with resonance and strong, the intention behind it IS very strong, then the result is a vowel that sounds like EE, has depth, and is the basis for a strong projection and clarity. Its what all classical singers who as you said are true tenors use to have that consistency and strenght.

Work on focal ajustment before the basics are in place, and you will have bad habits that you will have to remove before actually learning it correctly.

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I both agree and disagrees with you felipe :) But now i see where your from ;) anyhow Wait til i get home im gonna record how i used and worked this exercise, Will be fun to hear your input then. Cheers

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That was so cool of you to just riff and rap. I am a firm believer in funny noises. But it took me a few moments to realize you meant "tongue." It sounded like you were saying "thong," an entirely different mental image I am still trying to get rid of. :/

And yes, in training, one will make sounds that you do not necessarily make while "singing." And that's okay, it's a training exercise, mainly for coordination, I think.

Thanks, Jens.

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Jens, got the idea, but I fear its rather different from the proposal here. And even in that direction, repeating things daily on EE, unless its definitively correct, is not a very good idea in my opinion.

A video with more details, dunno if its clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w2FLKMJUZk&feature=youtu.be

Besides that, quite similar to some things Ive sent lately, but with other purpose.

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Basically you're saying practicing a super-twangy connected EE will over-compress the folds and lead to bad habits that will be a pain to remove earlier. Hate to say this but... good point lol. However an ugly headvoice is atleast better than the poorly adducted falsetto co-ordination. If there is another way to "feel" a resonant head-voice then I'm all ears.

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I have no clue Jay. The current state of your voice is the most important factor, always. Experimenting around and learning how to control vectors like placement and support, doing more or less of something is cool, as long as you dont transform it in exercises based on repetitions.

EE in special will affect the focal state of your voice quickly, and its not something desirable.

Really man, the best thing for you to do is to have a plan. What is the current state of your voice, what is the weekest link? This work to ajust emission in ballance takes priority over head and chest registration.

Why not booking a session with Rob? Or Daniel, dunno. Get a direction and follow. Youve been making one thread/day on all possible subjects for who knows how long. Im yet to even hear you singing... Are you trying to actually sing songs, even if they are easy in your opinion?

Alone And without a plan, singing is the most effective thing you can do, if you keep your eyes in comfort and quality.

All fundaments, from support to covering, if exagerated will lead to "connection". If you must, experiment, but dont make a routine put of it or you will consolidate stuff, when you understand its possible and doable, just make your brain assimilate there is nothing special about it and work slowly, beginning by definning one single vowel on a comfortable pitch in a ballanced way.

I insist on orientation. No need for someone to baby you, but simply hearing you, figuring the most urgent issues and giving you tools to train it.

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Felipe has a very valid point here. However, it is not something you can't prevent. The thing is not really the compression. As Rob always says: It is basically impossible to compress to much, it is just possible to not lower your larynx enough.

And that is really where the danger of that excercise lies: A high larynx position. The problem is not too much twang constriction, but too much constriction from the high larynx position and tongue tension that is usually tied to it.

There are two things you can do, which almost make sure you are not doing the excercise wrong:

1. Keep an "open face" posture at all times. When Felipe demonstrates the wrong way in his video, you can see him going "small face" with smaller eyes, compressed nose etc. Don't do that on the excercise. Try to use the face posture you assume when you are looking "surprised", open eyes, open face, "long nose".

2. Keep the tongue relaxed. The best way to do this is to assume the "open throat"-tongue position, which means the tip of the tongue rests on your lower front teeth, extending towards the lips. Always keep that position. The tongue may even stick a little bit out of your mouth. What usually happens, when you are doing the excercise wrong is that you start to press the back of the tongue against your soft palate and the root of your tongue against your larynx. This has to be prevented.

If you keep these two things in mind you will train "real twang compression" and not the constriction that is caused by a high larynx position. If you do the excercise this way you will also get a strong sensation of "the lift in the back" that Felipe is always talking about.

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folks, please bear in mind that exercise was used by several noted vocalists and was taught by cantor nate lam.

lam is a respected voice teacher....taught a lot of top vocalists.

let's keep an open mind. we can't just add "danger signs" to things based purely on one's opinion. yes, if that's all you do is this one exercise, you will surely end up in trouble, but as part of a well balanced voice building strategy?

and let's also say it's definitely possible to compress the vocal folds too much, and squeeze them so hard and abruptly that you end up with nodules or worse polyps.

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I think what Felipe is trying to say is that was you embed a witchy hee-ee-ee to your voice... it will be difficult to get rid of in the future, valid point. I find today in training that nnnnAW keeps the beauty of my upper register down into the lower voice ofcourse it is not as "ringy" as "hee-ee-ee" but I'm really liking the AW and O vowels... ARE THEY SAFE? :lol:

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jay,

i know what you're saying, and i understand felipe means well, but if you do it as jens and dan said, 2-3 minutes tops, and do it correctly, it may be very beneficial.

what are you going to embed?

you can't grow the voice on a mindset of fear. did you know fear of the voice can actually cause damage as much as misuse?

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I think what Felipe is trying to say is that was you embed a witchy hee-ee-ee to your voice... it will be difficult to get rid of in the future, valid point. I find today in training that nnnnAW keeps the beauty of my upper register down into the lower voice ofcourse it is not as "ringy" as "hee-ee-ee" but I'm really liking the AW and O vowels... ARE THEY SAFE? :lol:

If you could link in a sound file so that we could hear the difference in what you are talking about, that would be way cool.

And Felipe does have some good advice, expressed as nicely as he knows to do so. He left the baseball bat in the corner.:D

Since we don't get to hear you, then you should really go to a coach or someone familiar with the system you are working with which seems to me, from the general content of your posts, 4 Pillars.

Otherwise, how can we pass judgement, good or bad, on the sounds you say you are making when we don't get to hear them?

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Frustration is the enemy

Lol! AGREE x1000000. We need a singing poster that says that :lol: I think the overall opinion of this thread is limit your training of the witchy EE to less than 5 minutes a day if even that.

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I really think it's silly to practice on a particular vowel and expect to see much improvement from it.

I always have a DIY attitude, but I have never gone to the lengths of working out a time limit for vowel practice.:D

Eh, maybe just me.

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You're right Owen, we should save the money we have to pay for an internet usage fee and spend it on a local coach, like Jens did, some 8 or 9 years ago. Or even skype. Remember the skype conferences and how well that worked out?

Of course, going the skype route, you will need internet, camera, mic, etc. But it can be done.

And believe it or not, I do agree with meeting with some coach just to check you on what you are doing. I did. The guy has been teaching voice and piano for over 40 years. Listened to me singing some of my pop and rock stuff. Typed me as a light tenor (so no, that's not just me accepting my limit or me deciding, other than for focus of training, carte blanche I am a tenor. It might part of it just not all of it. :/ ) he mainly advised me on breathing and warm-ups, stuff I have passed along whenever I get the chance, in my own redneck way. And he had advised me to think of myself as a singer, not a "rock" singer, or "country" singer. That I shouldn't get too hung up on the particular stylings of a genre.

I should listen to him on that part but "I know, it's only rock and roll but I like it....."

Granted, my results with a coach are different than others. I like to sing tenor range stuff, so, it was not heartbreaking for him to describe me as a tenor. I had already cleaned up my sound before approaching so there wasn't a lot of that work to be done. Mainly, the stripped down basics. Breath support, tone, perspective. The voice is a musical instrument, treat it that way and treat it with respect. Listen to your voice, good or bad, it will teach you. All you have to do is listen.

But I am not going to be the type that needs a coach every day or every week. And if others want to say, "Ron, au contraire, you specificallly need one more often," well, I'm expecting that ....:lol:

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