The 'in between' notes...singing on pitch...

[Drucifer]

I've been a guitarist for 17 years now, fronted a couple different bands as a vocalist and can generally get the job done live...

However, I notice when I'm at home, playing acoustic, my pitch is terribly off during transition notes. I can land on a note the way I want, when it's a clear, defined note without embelishment, however, once I add something to it, the notes in between are off. It's like I can sing a root note (or octave above the root), but anything in between is usually a blend of inside and out of the chord....which, live, I can cover with vibrato (which I essentially consider cheating), but hitting direct notes and being dead on....that's not so good.

If I'm recording, I have all the time in the world to work out the notes and sing the melody along with a keyboard/guitar, but live, or solo, those notes aren't so apparent and the vocal quality gets lost...

The thing is, in my upper register, chest voice-high chest voice, I can belt stuff out and it's fine.....when I belt things out, it's nearly dead on all the time....it's when I really work dynamics that things get lost. Take for example Alice In Chains' "Man In The Box", the intro parts, "Aye ayyyyeee i ayeee aye ayeeeee" won't be dead on, but once the chorus comes, I can belt it out and it's been dead on time after time.....then ya get to the verses and there'll be a few notes that are sharp or flat...

I've tried to apply a meditation to this stuff, however it hasn't work out for me. It seems like all the notes in between the major notes (figuratively, not major in the theory sense) come out just fine. The tone is there....but once I head back into the verses, there is a lot I'm missing.

Singing has been a better release for me than guitar playing has been....it just seems I can control the emotion that much more< but the guitarist/Steve Vai/Geoff Tate in me DEMANDS that EVERY note should be perfect...

Should I just spent a mass amount of time singing scales while I play along with my guitar or piano?

I just can't separate the notes I belt out with the ones I really work the dynamics with.

Essentially, my vocal style is a mix of Phil Anselmo from Pantera, Layne Staley from Alice In Chains and Geoff Tate from Queensryche........

I can last for hours belting things out, but my softer range is just not anywhere I want it to be....I can do loud, but I want to do the soft just as well....

HELP!

[Steven Fraser]

Drucifer: This is a very common situation, lots of singers have it.

Pitch issues of any type have a physical component, and a mental component. Here is how I think about it...

Phonating on a particuular pitch is learned by experience. The 'idea' of the note, or mental image of what you intend to sing, comes first. Then, the 'will' to make the note brings the muscles into action. How well the actual note matches the thought depends on technique and the ability to match what your voice actually produces and your mental image of the pitch you are going for.

The ability to do this latter item... to listen and compare the phonated result with the thought, and to _adjust_ so they match... takes a bit of practice to develop the knack. Some of the things I recommend are:

Singing long slow scales with attention to precise tuning

Singing intervals of all kinds, especially those for which tuning is almost always a challenge

(those are, in case you are in doubt):

The ascending whole step

The ascending major third

The ascending major 6th

The ascending major 7th

The descending 1/2 step (doh - ti)

The descending minor 3rd (sol-mi)

These last two are particularly challenging, as the natural tendency of the singer is to overshoot them, to sing the interval too 'wide'. This does improve with practice, but is very difficult to make into automatic habit. It needs attention all the time.

And that leads me to the issue. Unless the singer is very accomplished at it, tuning always needs some attention. This becomes problematic when the notes change rapidly, as the mental image of the note change must be made accurately, and the feedback loop (listen and adjust) is very nearly always too slow to make adjustments.

This is not insoluable, just challenging. What the singer has to do is to rehearse the licks and patterns to the point that the mental image of the notes is accurate, and also that the voice follows the mental image faithfully and with freedom. Yes, its a tall order.

In former days, this was accomplished by the study of ornamentation, simple note flourishes around reference pitches, performed slowly at first, and then with increasing speed as they became more ingrained. For example, the 'turn' is a neighbor group... A beginning note, the note 1 whole step above it, the original note, the note 1/2 step below it, and finishing on the beginnning note. Think do-re-do-ti-do and you will have it.

If you are interested in what these ornaments look like written out in notes, I can get some of those for you and post them here. Mastery comes when these patterns are so ingrained that when you think one of them... your voice follows faithfully your thoughts.

I hope this helps.

[joshual]

I got the same profile ( 17 years of guitar playing, 12 in professional). My singing was driving me mad because i get out of pitch al the time .

Siinging intervals help, but what i didn't understand was ' come on i know already this stuff, why can i apply it to singing'. And i just discovered few days ago that it was all coming from voice placement. If i don't get a specific placement ( i would better say a placement that work for me) i don't sing on pitch. But if do a good one, 90% of the notes are on pitch without have to think about it.

Don't know if i'm doing good, but as i'm working on bridging earlier ( A4- B4) i realise that putting what i call (not sure of the terms) subglottic pressure/twang fixed my problem and also let me get the tone i was searching for ( more soul/rock thant rock prog thing). I now have to learn to master the twang and reinforce more my head voice.

Hope it can help you, and hope you understood my awfull english lol.

[Drucifer]

Steven, that was outstanding advice and really popped my eyes open to where the hang-up is occurring. Thanks so much!

I just found my Perfect Pitch Supercourse that I got YEARS ago and couldn't get past the 1st disc because of the narration, but I fully intend on forcing my way through the narration just to get to the goods.

I definitely see how hopping to different intervals in a scale will help dramatically on landing on pitch each time. Muscle Memory by it's truest definition!

And Joshual, I never even would have known english isn't your first language had you not said anything. I meet Americans on a regular basis whose vocabulary make you come off as an english scholar!

[kalapoka]

Same same same profile and problem here! I've been playing guitar for 15-16 years, and my singing/pitch makes me want to kill myself. Do you think the root of this problem MIGHT be in the fact that the guitar is an instrument that is slightly off-pitch itself? (compared to a well tuned piano)...add to that the floating tremolo bridges and we got a pretty unstably tuned instrument that we've spent nights and days with. Just a thought.

Although I have just started to want to sing (1 year), these are the biggest problems getting me depressed now. Being off-tune is such a turn-off

Fahim

[Steven Fraser]

Do you think the root of this problem MIGHT be in the fact that the guitar is an instrument that is slightly off-pitch itself? (compared to a well tuned piano)...add to that the floating tremolo bridges and we got a pretty unstably tuned instrument that we've spent nights and days with.

Fahim: Solve the problem. Pop for the cheapest digital keyboard you can find, with speakers on the top. Mount it on the wall (or a stand) at head-level, with the speakers facing out into the room (keys are now vertical). Select a simple pipe organ flute patch (steady tone), standing, put your face up to the keyboard (so your ears are between the speakers, and play a nice middle-voice note with your left hand. Sing long notes until your voice merges pitch with the keyboard. Change the note by 1 whole step, and repeat. Ascend the scale for 1 octave.

Go back to the first note, and count up 7 half steps, i.e., if the lowest is C, up to G. Play both notes. Sing the top note while playing the lower one. Tune your voice so that you sing the same note as when you played the G.

Change the top note, leaving the lower note the same. You are now singing intervals with the keyboard as a drone.

This exercise will help you develop the finer aspects of your ability to tune, and you will hear not only your voice well, but will be surrounded by the sound of the keyboard.

I hope this helps.

[Snejk]

Fahim: Solve the problem. Pop for the cheapest digital keyboard you can find, with speakers on the top. Mount it on the wall (or a stand) at head-level, with the speakers facing out into the room (keys are now vertical). Select a simple pipe organ flute patch (steady tone), standing, put your face up to the keyboard (so your ears are between the speakers, and play a nice middle-voice note with your left hand. Sing long notes until your voice merges pitch with the keyboard. Change the note by 1 whole step, and repeat. Ascend the scale for 1 octave.

Go back to the first note, and count up 7 half steps, i.e., if the lowest is C, up to G. Play both notes. Sing the top note while playing the lower one. Tune your voice so that you sing the same note as when you played the G.

Change the top note, leaving the lower note the same. You are now singing intervals with the keyboard as a drone.

This exercise will help you develop the finer aspects of your ability to tune, and you will hear not only your voice well, but will be surrounded by the sound of the keyboard.

I hopw this helps.

Tonality has always been my biggest adversary, this is GOLD (and bookmarked!) thanks!

[kalapoka]

Fahim: Solve the problem. Pop for the cheapest digital keyboard you can find, with speakers on the top. Mount it on the wall (or a stand) at head-level, with the speakers facing out into the room (keys are now vertical). Select a simple pipe organ flute patch (steady tone), standing, put your face up to the keyboard (so your ears are between the speakers, and play a nice middle-voice note with your left hand. Sing long notes until your voice merges pitch with the keyboard. Change the note by 1 whole step, and repeat. Ascend the scale for 1 octave.

Go back to the first note, and count up 7 half steps, i.e., if the lowest is C, up to G. Play both notes. Sing the top note while playing the lower one. Tune your voice so that you sing the same note as when you played the G.

Change the top note, leaving the lower note the same. You are now singing intervals with the keyboard as a drone.

This exercise will help you develop the finer aspects of your ability to tune, and you will hear not only your voice well, but will be surrounded by the sound of the keyboard.

I hope this helps.

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE GEM! Thank you so much Steven! I can't wait to go home and try this [ 8 more hours ].

I already have a MIDI controller keyboard, so I will use that, and try to put my home studio monitors/ speakers around my ears. Thanks also for suggesting the pipe organ patch. I was using the grand piano, but I will try the pipe organ tonight. Is the pipe organ more stable than grand piano?

One more question - you suggested that I practice the middle voice notes. Is it because the lower registers are usually more difficult to match pitch? I always started on the lower notes, and obviously struggled with it.

Thank you so much again!

Fahim

[Steven Fraser]

I already have a MIDI controller keyboard, so I will use that, and try to put my home studio monitors/ speakers around my ears. Thanks also for suggesting the pipe organ patch. I was using the grand piano, but I will try the pipe organ tonight. Is the pipe organ more stable than grand piano?

One more question - you suggested that I practice the middle voice notes. Is it because the lower registers are usually more difficult to match pitch? I always started on the lower notes, and obviously struggled with it.

Fahim: the speakers do not need to be very close.... just so there is sound all around you, roughly equal volume in each, but no so loud that it overpowers your own voice... Tweak the volume so you can hear yourself, and the organ tone, at roughly the same volume.

The flute pipe organ patch is very steady and sustained. Piano is percussive and decays after a few seconds. I use the pipe organ patch myself by folding up a piece of paper and wedging it between the midi keyboard keys... to hold down the note forever. That way, I don't even have to hold the key down while I am repeatedly matching the pitch and singing intervals against it.... You can even walk around :-)

Also, the harmonic structure of the flute has plentiful lower overtones. As you practice, you will begin to hear these overtones as they interact with the harmonics of your own voice. _Very_ fine tuning is possible when you begin to hear the beats between the overtones.

I recommend the middle voice because its where most people have the best control. Learn the tuning there, and then work outward to where it is more difficult.

[Robert Lunte]

I have to agree with Steve. In my experience as a voice coach for over ten years, I believe I have actually come across maybe 2 or 3 people that can not hear pitch. It is very rare. These people may suffer from a condition known as "amusia". Amusia is defined as, "Amusia is a musical disorder that appears mainly as a defect in processing pitch, but it also encompasses musical memory and recognition..." Most people do not suffer from Amusia.

The inability to sing pitch correctly is due to; 1). Something in the technique is not balanced or executed correctly. For example, pitch will often go flat if there is not a good balance of respiration (support). Pitch can also go flat if singers are pulling chest, constricting on high chest voice notes that should be bridged in the head resonance. 2). Some people seem to have never developed the ability to LISTEN to the pitch. To pay attention to the pitch. As Steve said in his post, a singer must hear the pitch in his head a split second before he sings it and this must become a habit. To most people, this is obvious and intuitive, to others, for what ever reason... they never bothered to take pitch seriously and seem to feel that its ok to be kinda close to the pitch. They feel that kinda on pitch is good enough... I have some news for you, IT ISNT!

In music, there is a lot of creative license and flexibility, but two things that generally do not have any flexibility and must be precise is pitch and rhythm, and of the two, pitch is the most important. With pitch, you are either on or you are off, there is no middle ground.

How do you fix it? Take Steve's advise above and sit down in front of a keyboard and start "plinking" out the notes. Make sure you can hear half steps (chromatic melodic intervals). Work on chromatic scales, then move to larger melodic intervals... but to my point, get in the habit of starting to listen... hear the pitch in your head before you sing it... you must develop this skill. Train with lots of vocal scales as well and dont allow yourself to be sloppy.

Hope this helps.

[joshual]

I tried the organ trick last night and OMG!!!! I knew that i have problem with pitch but now i can realise how much i'm flat . The great part of it is that now i know how to really work on it.

[Steven Fraser]

I tried the organ trick last night and OMG!!!! I knew that i have problem with pitch but now i can realise how much i'm flat . The great part of it is that now i know how to really work on it.

joshual: I forgot to say this before, but approaching a organ note with a vocal slide is very interesting. As your fundamental gets within 17 Hz or so of the pipe note, you start to be able to hear the 'beats' of interference, as rapid loud/soft variations of the tone. As you get closer, the beats slow down. The count of beats per second is the difference in fundamental frequency between your voice and the organ tone.

When the beats disappear, you are in tune. If you go past the note,the beats re-appear, and speed up again the farther beyond the note you go.

Pretty cool, eh?

As a sidelight, this method of tuning 'to the beats' is how a barbershop chorus gets tones to ring. Not only do they match vowels, but they tune precisely.

[joshual]

The strange thing is that i can really well ear the coma (the real word in french for this beats of interference) on any instruments, but it's really hard for me to apply it to singing. I think it can may be a lack of "ear it before singt it" too.

Thanxs again for your help ;)

[kalapoka]

I tried the Organ over the weekend as well and It was reallly really helpful. I kept my studio monitors aligned to my ears and slowly tried to match pitch as much as possible. I already knew and was able to sing half steps/chromatic notes, but my problem always has been to hit the 'bulls-eye' inside one given note. Hopefully I'll get better at this with more practice.

I do not understand what is meant by 'beats' and the discussion between you and joshual. Can you give me any links where i can study about it?

Thank you so much Steven and Robert. You guys are my brothers of inspiration!

Fahim

[joshual]

the 'beats' or coma appears when you're close to the note but not on it. the sound is shaking, or another image could be waves. don't have the english language to really explain it but i'll try one thing. When you're on pitch you ear a steady sound like eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. and when you're close but not on it you hear things like wouuuu-wouuuuu-wouuuuuuu-wouuuuwouuu; the sound oscillate.

[denamurray]

Quite the common problem for many singers.

I have found that as far as pitch goes, sometimes it is a lack of laryngeal development -- the muscles and cartilages that control the stretch of the vocal cords. I actually have exercises to improve on this in my first book.

Secondly, if you are not taking your air in properly, all 3 support mechanisms (the mask, vocal folds, and diaphragm) will collapse. If they collapse, you have loss of pitch (flat). Likewise, if you squeeze too much, you will be sharp.

For the last 15 years I have been researching this issue and what I discovered was that it all came down to one thing: the inhale. There is a lot of misperception about intake and diaphragmatic support just as there is to battle the instinctual habit of pushing the air up for the sound you are looking for. Pitch is controlled by the stretch of the vocal cords. If you take in too much air, or not enough, they will not be able to stretch properly for each note. Every note requires a different size stretch, similar to that of a guitar string.

There are books and exercises you can buy that will help you gain control of the pitch. I would suggest investigating this. If you have more questions, please feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

[kalapoka]

Thank you Dena!