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Where is your CT/TA switch?

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benny82
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So it's me again, wondering how people produce full voice on the higher notes.

In Owen's CT/TA-thread geno posted a very interesting excercise going through the CT/TA switch, this was the link:

https://www.box.com/s/7144gks2c324iilndkul

In the thread geno wrote that the switch occurs around B4/C5 for him. Where is the switch for you if you do a siren like that towards the really high notes in "pure head voice"? And what do you do technically if you want to keep TA-dominance (M1) beyond that point?

For me that switch is pretty much precisely at A4/Bb4 and I really tried everything, but I can't induce full voice after that point, not even in the scariest "breaking-like-hell"-way.

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It's not about trying diffrent things it's about making the voice stronger. What geno is doing is not à switch, it's a blend by the Two functions, thats why his voice sounds so even.

Im gonna qoute Daniel formica, "vowel and intensity" it's the key and getting right vocalplacements and ofc strenght :)

Pulling puré ta dominance(being superchesty) is superhard and taxing on the voice specialy up around C5, it's one of those things that you can hurt yourself doing. Also when doing this it can be very hard to get out of it afterwards as it is superdominant in the voice.

They key to get a longlasting voice is not belting up above tenor high c but rather making the softer sounds anchored and strong.

If you plan on taking ta dominance high for the love of god get a coach :p

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Jens is right. Its a blending of the two registers that erases the "switch". The switch is replaced by a gradual morphing. The CT/TA is going on behind the scenes, but you can't really "will" them to coorperate. That's where concentrating on the vowel and support, and lighter mass will help.

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I have always heard that after E4 you are using "head doninant" configuration weather you know it or not.

And C5 is "head or M2" regardless of what it sounds like.

I have been wrong about many things. I could be wrong about this.

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Mdew depends on what you define headvoice as, also how "dominant". Basicly what they mean by that statement the fold stretcher WILL be active on notes above E4 nothing more. But if an untrained Singer dont shed vocal weight or narrow the sound you Will end upp pulling chest on E4 cause the ct muskle Will have à hard time stretching the folds if they in full depth mode(chest)

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Mdew depends on what you define headvoice as, also how "dominant". Basicly what they mean by that statement the fold stretcher WILL be active on notes above E4 nothing more. But if an untrained Singer dont shed vocal weight or narrow the sound you Will end upp pulling chest on E4 cause the ct muskle Will have à hard time stretching the folds if they in full depth mode(chest)

Lets put it this way. Around E4 you have to Allow the "stretchers" to start sharing the work.

So if OP is asking where a switch is, there should be no switch. A gradual balance between the two.

Still not the best way to word that.

Yes, I can still be wrong. I haven't got my voice box to cooperate yet either.

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The switch dont having to do anything with the ta and ct. The switch is basicly when you have to change vocalquality and cant continue With the one you started up with...

The passagio occurs because of our muscles being unbalanced weak and batteling with eachother. À break can occur anywhere in the range, but is usually in the passagio for untrained singers

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i just wish some folks would just forget about registers, and transitions and "going into something."

the voice isn't a switch..a yodel is a switch.

learn how to strengthen and shift resonance. basic scales on all vowels, well supported.

repetitive scales stretch, condition and limber. like everyone is saying...a supported vowel is the key to going up high.

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Unfortunately words used to ask or answer questions lead to confusion. There is no denying that something happens in an untrained voice at a certain area. It feels and sounds like a "break". A totally different sound and feel. You almost have two view it from the beginning as two different things. And from there we create our own problems.

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yes, but that's what scales and sirens etc., are for.

if you work out your voice each day doing scales and all, your break sensation will begin to go away.

but while you're busy doing those scales, other residual benefits/improvements will be coming to you that you cannot foresee

every rep of a scale stretches and conditions the vocal track. every rep (ideally) engages support. every rep reinforces progress because your range will develop.

don't you folks see that?

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The x-factor isn't just support the vowel, it's about not THINKING about a "switch".

Only thinking about the pitch, vowel, intensity (Tip by Daniel Formica) and not about oh I'm moving into head voice now. If you keep worrying your voice will notice. So what happens when you break? Take a step back, relax, focus... and try again.

There really is no short cut... the only short cut would be understand your voice and it's current weaknesses.

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i just wish some folks would just forget about registers, and transitions and "going into something."

the voice isn't a switch..a yodel is a switch.

learn how to strengthen and shift resonance. basic scales on all vowels, well supported.

repetitive scales stretch, condition and limber. like everyone is saying...a supported vowel is the key to going up high.

This.

I was thinking of where my switch is. It's near the door. That way, when I come into the house, I can turn the lights on. :)

One voice.

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When I can successfully bridge I feel like it comes down to a few things... good closure/twang/use of air and ALLOWING the resonance to shift. When this happens I can't find my bridge.... which is exactly what I want muhahaha.

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I'm fully on board with Bob (no surprises there!!)

I really feel we're over thinking things.. pick your exercises and work on them.. and SING!! We're creating mental barriers around a lot of things, (the intention behind it may be right, but it's creating a lot of stress/ confusion as well) instead of just sticking with the regime.

There are no 'switches' between registers.. if the voice doesn't blend beautifully as one ascends, it kind of defeats the purpose of all the training that coaches like Rob put us through.

I know it's difficult to figure things out by yourself considering the wealth of info on this forum, but ALL of it isn't required for everyone!!

I took 3 lessons with Rob a year and a half ago, and have since been working on his exercises, and some of Frisell's. My range has increased by over half an octave, but more importantly, I can (on a good day!) knock out songs like Whole Lotta Love and Baba O Riley, which sit bang in my Passagio, and that's something I could barely squeak out in falsetto 2 years ago..

What I'm trying to say is, stick with your regime, and give it time.. Analyze, but don't analyze things to death :-)

Cheers, Love this forum!!

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definitely...

i even have a list of them i'll share with you.....lol!!! my official difficult spot list..lol!!!

you realize (like tuning an old transistor radio) there's a peak resonance and efficiency and you could be off a little and still do the song, but you begin to know how much better you can make it.

most spot on sung songs have a characteristic to them...i believe....there's a release associated with the notes and a feeling like the notes are taller...and when you hit the pocket just right, the pitch is spot on.

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By the way, does anyone else drill difficult parts of songs you know? I really think it's a great way to practice. It's a way to practice tweaking the vowels, mass, support levels, etc. of difficult repertoire in order to tailor it to your individual voice. And that ability is crucial to becoming a great singer. It's really IMO probably 70% of the difference between struggling on a song and actually getting through it without problems.

All the time. Even if I am singing along with the radio. If I did something wrong, I will go back and re-do the phrase or word. A good way to avoid a bad habit is to not let a bad thing become a habit.

"Zen and the Art of Singing" by ronws. ;)

In fact, it is best to work through a song. Find the parts that are difficult and do whatever to make it not difficult. Some call it working a song into your voice.

To paraphrase one of Felipe's threads on recording, iron out the performance before you record. Well, apply that to singing a song. Iron out the problems before considering the song is done.

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I wish I posted this earlier but as I sat here and thought about the question where is your ct/Ta switch I realized and punched myself for not stating the obvious and that is there is no switch the ct controls pitch so no matter where you are it's always engaged. This is something I teach and constantly state. Can't believe I didn't read the post clearly..

Sorry guys

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It's a tug of war when your singing in your lower range the cords are short and thick as you ascend they lengthen and want to separate your job is to keep it together takes time and patience. As you ascend the chest resonance starts to weaken and head resonance starts to gain strength. This is why falsetto feels solid higher and chest feels strained and vice versa when you sing in falsetto down to like a g3 it's hard to keep falsetto and its very quiet but chest is nice and loud and easy. You need balance in both muscle systems TA and CT. It takes lots of training not just a couple months here and there. Everyday every week every month for a long time. But it is achievable to everyone

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It's a tug of war when your singing in your lower range the cords are short and thick as you ascend they lengthen and want to separate your job is to keep it together takes time and patience. As you ascend the chest resonance starts to weaken and head resonance starts to gain strength. This is why falsetto feels solid higher and chest feels strained and vice versa when you sing in falsetto down to like a g3 it's hard to keep falsetto and its very quiet but chest is nice and loud and easy. You need balance in both muscle systems TA and CT. It takes lots of training not just a couple months here and there. Everyday every week every month for a long time. But it is achievable to everyone

Yes, that's what I was thinking, so the "switching" point I'm asking for is basically where you switch to falsetto. It is just as you say. Up to about D4, chest feels appropriate for me, starting around B4 falsetto feels appropriate. In between those two is the range where singing really feels hard for me because you have to learn that careful balance of the two modes, and both modes in "pure" version feel kind of inappropriate in that range.

For example: On Robert Luntes songs and in his training sessions I notice him switching to falsetto around B4. His Child in Time cover is also a great example. The screams on C5 are basically falsetto, the A4 in the stanza is full voice. In one of the excercises he also says that bridging to B4 is the hardest note, which would match my impression that his "switch" would be around that area.

Maybe it is not even a register switch. Maybe it is just a switch in what people sometimes call "resonance strategy", but would be interesting if that switch occurs at the same point for all singers.

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*You don't ever completely give in to that feeling of breaking, you always hold on to something. Less and less as you ascend but always holding onto a little chest feeling. That's the battle and the patience and most of all practice

And guys that's it that's exactly what singing is.* Forget all the terms and all the jargon that's it. That's how you get better and that's all you need to understand that sentence.

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