Singer from 'The Chariot'. More CVT answers requested :)

[Mr.stevenbradley]

I've wondered what technique this guy is using,

Check out the crazy scream at 0:41

Distortion? Creak? Growl?

-Steven-

[joshual]

Don't get me wrong, i really don't want to be rude with you but i'm a little bit tired of posts like this one. Let me explain why:

Not that is not interresting, i love to read about technique and analyse of singers too but i'm tired of seeing ' please described it in CVT terms' in each post i read. Caterine Sadolin and CVT users have their own forum, if someone want to talk exclusively about CVT, just go there.

On the board we don't all own and train on CVT method. So it will be just better for all people like me if the analyze or technique discussions in more generic terms than CVT ones.

I repeat it, there's nothing personal with you or any CVTers on the board.... Just a bit tired.

back to your question, i really don't know, but it seems like a high fryed scream for me. Productionwize I can also hear that there's really lot of compression and a little bit of saturation to achieve the results. Sure it will not sound like that without the studio processing. ;-)

[Mr.stevenbradley]

Good point Joshual, and no offense taken.

I"ll relocate these types of questions.

[Jens]

Well joshual why cant we do both? if cvt terms helps steven out cause he knows them better i see no problem in using them. I always feel like when we try to describe sounds with words we always someway come out short.

wether we use the CVT system or the usual chest mix head terms.

I think CVT describes this as noise added to the voice, but if martin chimes in he can correct me if im wrong. He's using the curbingmode(I think), but i dont think it's centered at the scream, im leaning towards he probably uses creak-distortion, i think i hear some rattle in there to

In other terms i would describe this as a growlscreamsetup high in the voice

[joshual]

Well joshual why cant we do both? if cvt terms helps steven out cause he knows them better i see no problem in using them. I always feel like when we try to describe sounds with words we always someway come out short.

wether we use the CVT system or the usual chest mix head terms.

Im totally agree with you we can do BOTH. I don't see any problem using Cvt terms if it helps more, but some like me would also like to understand too lol without having to buy cvt programs ;-)

[gno]

I am fascinated by the CVT terms because they explain a lot in a logical way. I am not part of CVT and their forums. I like this forum a lot and it's nice that a lot of people with that knowledge are here on this forum. If it wasn't for this forum I would have no idea what CVT is.

[Jens]

Yeah i understand joshual, I kindo was like you in the start i competly hated the CVT terms. But the more time passes they more and more come out as the most reliable terminology since there's not so much "bagage" to their descriptions of sounds besides it's very easy to break down what singers are doing cause there's often alot more to it than saying for instance thats a "headvoice with distortion"

You can find information about the modes and soundclips online :)

[jonpall]

Thinking out loud (and I'm probably going to regret having wrote this):

Why the big need to categorize every "sound feeling" known to man? Why isn't it enough to just say, f.ex., he's singing a B4 with lots of attitude! Sorry, I own the book, but I'm not sold on that all these categorizations are the right thing to do for singing. Maybe that's just me. I'm sure it helps some people but I feel it kind of takes a bit of individuality out of singers. The CVT stuff is interesting, much of it is helpful, but I just have this feeling that it's a step in the wrong direction, away from personal discoveries about one's own voice, at least for certain singers, like me, f.ex. But it probably depends on your personality type - some people learn more from self discovery than others and some people learn more from copying others and doing what their instructor tells them to do.

I say, get a good vocal program to develop a solid, healthy, neutral sounding voice, something like Vendera's or Lugo's or Lunte's or Rigg's program, (half of which I own) and then develop extra sounds like the various types of distortions on top of that by your own experimentation. Develop your OWN style of vocal effects! Don't get into analysis paralysis like I find the modes often are.

Think about it - It seems that most famous pop/rock singers are singing with curbing 99% of the time, maybe overdrive and maybe some distortion thrown in on notes here and there to empasise certain words - I just call it "attitude" or "mojo notes", not a specific overdrive mode. I don't mean to offend anyone with this. Sorry. I didn't even find the chapters on effects in the CVT book to be as helpful as it could have been - and I read the book cover to cover several times. Only now am I beginning to be able to produce those sounds (mostly grit on high notes) and it took into from many sources and vocal programs to get there.

Don't get me wrong. The CVT book is actually a very interesting book and I've learned a lot from it. But I think it's not the best vocal program out there, at least it hasn't been so for me. Programs that I've found more helpful are f.ex. Mark Baxter's Rock 'n' roll singer's survival manual, Seth Rigg's Singing for the stars, Jamie Vendera's Raise your voice II and this forum here. They are like fitness programs for your voice and then you use your trained voice to express your feelings in the songs you sing. This is just my personal opinion and I'll be happy to let you know if I ever change my mind.

Cheers, guys!

[Snorth]

Hey Jonpall!

I'm an avid lurker of this and the CVT forum and find good tips from both. I definitely dig your first point about some people being better self-learners and then CVT might not be the thing for them. BUT you make your whole point invalid when you start refering to all these other vocal programs, because what is that if not following instructions from an instructor? ^^

I do not see the problem with categorizing every sound known to man, but then I'm quite a vocal nerd and I love to learn new sounds. I can agree that learning the effects department in CVT without a teacher is hard stuff. But the book combined with a teacher works wonders for me.

One thing I see that you like which CVT doesn't have is step-by-step programs, and I see nothing wrong with using those, I myself know the power of planning and it's a great one. But then again CVT encourages the student to take a more personal approach to this. My teacher has always asked me what I want to do, what do I want to learn. As a result of this I lack in the high neutral department because I simply haven't felt like training this. And at the same time I can now hit a F5 in curbing and C5 in overdrive because I love those modes and sounds alot more. I still want to learn the high neutral of course but that I can do later.

I also think that 99% curbing figure you said about pop singers is very much up to debate, but I don't wanna be too harsh on you man, on this forum we should spread the love, not make war! :D

[joshual]

lol sorry but you seems to mix up ( or confuse don't know the exact terms) Jonpall and me ;-). I've never refered about other vocal programs, Jonpall did ;-).

[Snorth]

Haha Joshual epic fail on my side, was in a hurry when I wrote that. ^^' I'm gonna edit my other post, of course I meant Jonpall.

[jonpall]

Cheers, Snorth, and thanks for good answers. Occasionally it gets a bit on my nerves when people overanalize which modes this and that singer is using and overcomplicate things. I've even done it myself. No big deal (Didn't Catherine herself that singing is easy and simple?) And CVT must be working, since great guys and singers like Martin and Jens have used it.