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Open throat question

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gilad
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So, I have read a lot about it, and have seen some yt videos, but ....

While I am able to simulate it by yawning, or by breathing in, when I make a sound, no matter how much i try to hold it there (Not physically of course) the larynx just goes up and doesn't stay damped... I am wondering if my understanding of open throat is wrong. Shouldn't it be staying down there to give me a more wider resonance?

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Keeping your larynx down as you go through your bridge is really tricky. One of Roberts suggestions in the four pillars is to siren. Starting with an 'EH' and modifying gradually to an 'UH' as you get to your bridge. If you make the 'EH' in your chest voice with an exaggerated lowered larynx, try keeping that same configuration through the bridge. Small steps though!! I found this exercise really helped me to keep a lowered larynx through my bridge

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Hey Gina! Thanks for answering.

So, I am right in regards that the larynx needs to stay down even on the high notes, and that is what will cause my voice to be more bassy, or as Lunte calls it "© Boomy" ? :)

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gilad,

training the larynx to not rise up will help you quite a bit with your voice overall.

another way to go about it is routine scales on vowels that cause the larynx to descend.

simple scales on "aw" as in "hawk", "uh" as "plug", and and "ah" as in "hot" (specifically "hot" not "hat")

all have the effect, when produced correctly, of opening the throat and lowering the larynx.

another thing you can try which i do for conditioning and strength is simply holding that vocal tract configuration for 3-5 minutes straight a day, once or twice a day. start at 1 minute, then work your way up.

saliva will build up, so you might need to tilt your head a bit forward so the saliva pools behind your front teeth which will keep you from swallowing it.

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gilad,

training the larynx to not rise up will help you quite a bit with your voice overall.

another way to go about it is routine scales on vowels that cause the larynx to descend.

simple scales on "aw" as in "hawk", "uh" as "plug", and and "ah" as in "hot" (specifically "hot" not "hat")

all have the effect, when produced correctly, of opening the throat and lowering the larynx.

another thing you can try which i do for conditioning and strength is simply holding that vocal tract configuration for 3-5 minutes straight a day, once or twice a day. start at 1 minute, then work your way up.

saliva will build up, so you might need to tilt your head a bit forward so the saliva pools behind your front teeth which will keep you from swallowing it.

Thanks Bob!

I will most definitely do that.

Any other tips guys?

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Funny thing...

When I go to do an Ah sound, in this order.

1) Breath in,

2) start to send the air to the vocal chords, but stop the breath. I am assuming I am shutting the vocal folds all the way.

3) then release the ah

the larynx goes up already at the point that i start sending air to the folds...

In other words when I do Ah, the larynx goes up a bit.

There is no way it goes down like when I yawn... Is there??

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gilad, please re-read my previous post.

this is a component of open throat technique.

don't overthink, just do a nice "ah" as in "hot"...if you use "ah" as in "cat" (as i said not to) you're going to have a harder time of it.

as i noted before, "ah" as in cat is not what want for this purpose. the "cat" "ah" is wide.

stay with more narrow vowel sounds till you get more strength. they will help you with your goal.

also, the goal isn't to pull anything down, or hold anything down......but to develop the ability to control the larynx from rising (when you so desire).

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gilad - you don't seem to have issues with your passagio. I think you are doing it right. Yout larynx position may be just fine. When you go high you have to let your larynx go up - don't try to keep it down when going high.

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Nothing in the throat.

That means to not concentrate on it so much that you trip yourself up. Otherwise, we might get hung up on the musculature at the horns at the back of the larynx and how they are affected by the raising of the soft palate.

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hi geno, i'm curious why you say that? why would you not find it beneficial to keep it neutral or appropriately lowered?

please let me know your thoughts on this.

Bob - I think it is beneficial to keep a neutral larynx - and slightly lower larynx can also be helpful. For me the "jury is out" on having to purposely change someone's natural larynx position. For a while I was second guessing myself thinking I was keeping too high of a larynx, so I was messing with it and did some recording and found that what was doing prior to that was better. I already had a neutral position that was working fine, and the depressed larynx I was fooling with was not good. So, I just thought I should tell gilad that what he is already doing might be fine. I don't know for sure. I think that in some, maybe alot of cases, the singer doesn't need to mess with a larynx position that comes natural to him. Of course, if you want to sing opera, it may be a whole different ball game.

Now, in relation to this post, when going through passagio you've got to lower F1 for a bit and you can do that a with a lower larynx position. To me, gilad is already going through the passagio fine, so I don't know if he needs anything different.

And when going into head, you've got to let the larynx come up.

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thanks geno.

i see. yes, the larynx thing can go both ways i guess. lately i've really been focusing on really keeping an open throat....which feels like the larynx is a bit lower.....but i were to look in a mirrow i might see otherwise.

i have had success with really making sure the throat is kept open. i've learned to not confuse open throat with just mouth height.

after a lot of experimentation i've found per my own voice, some of my best resonance comes from closing down the mouth rather than opening it.

never can learn (and relearn) enough.

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Geno, thanks for your excellent explanation.

The only reason why I am fiddling with trying to lower my larynx, is because I want to see if I can thicken my voice in the higher range that way. I think it becomes to thin up there, and would like to give some bass boost if you know what I mean.

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Geno, thanks for your excellent explanation.

The only reason why I am fiddling with trying to lower my larynx, is because I want to see if I can thicken my voice in the higher range that way. I think it becomes to thin up there, and would like to give some bass boost if you know what I mean.

It will for sure give a little more space for reasonance, so it will give you a base boost. But when you go real high you have to let it come up.

Franco says that open throat and lower larynx are the same concept. However a lot of other teachers don't equate the two. For example, CVT separates them: Larynx position controls darkness - the lower, the darker (bass boost). The open throat is basically developing muscle independance over your constrictors, so they don't squeeze off the back of the throat. (I don't think you have that problem either) Tamplin also doesn't equate open throat to lower larynx. Almost all teachers advocate an "open throat", but they don't all mean lower larynx for that. They want the constrictors to get out of the way.

A lot of classical singers advocate the lower larynx. Last summer I talked with Gino Vannelli's vocal coach who is a operatic Baritone and he advocates it. I also met a professional opera singer who also advocated it. He was advocating it as a way to acheive the most "beautiful" tone, so to him it was also a stylistic choice. However, in my class with Gino he never brought up the subject to any of us.

I do practice this one operatic aria - not that I want to be an opera singer - but it has helped me in a number of ways. In that piece I DO try to keep a slightly lower larynx and it does help for that genre. But when I switch back to a pop / rock song I go with my "regular" larynx position - it sounds better to me.

I listen to your song and think that you have a nice balanced tone already. You seem to handle the passagio fine, so the lowered larynx for passagio is already happening. So at this point it is a stylistic choice. You're right - if you want a bass boost or a darker (more operatic) tone, then lower the larynx. In my opinion, for Pop or Rock, you've got a great balance.

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Thank you Videohere for the outstanding video. As I understood the video, Franco T. is saying, when larynx is dropped and proper lower support is present, the sound is three times more volume and projects better than larynx dropped without support and larynx raised. This all makes sense, as the entire vocal tract opens up with dropped larynx properly supported-- greater lower and higher resonance should both result, because the increased sound chamber created.

A point Franco T. makes is that larynx-dropped-without-proper-support can be effective, if a mic is used. So, lesser need to deal with larynx changes if one uses mic. The implication is that a person who learns larynx-dropped-with-support has more capabilities, as he obviously can also switch to mics-with-without-proper-larynx-support or "lyric-with-no-drop-larynx-at-all.

Franco is more concerned with developing full capabilities than suitability of a particular voice style. To drop larynx or not drop larynx depends on the singers' style choices and presence or absence of mic. But, there are more comprehensive and more capable skills.

The next question is what is the support Franco mentions? My opinion is that this support is primarily body posture related.

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Thank you Videohere for the outstanding video. As I understood the video, Franco T. is saying, when larynx is dropped and proper lower support is present, the sound is three times more volume and projects better than larynx dropped without support and larynx raised. This all makes sense, as the entire vocal tract opens up with dropped larynx properly supported-- greater lower and higher resonance should both result, because the increased sound chamber created.

A point Franco T. makes is that larynx-dropped-without-proper-support can be effective, if a mic is used. So, lesser need to deal with larynx changes if one uses mic. The implication is that a person who learns larynx-dropped-with-support has more capabilities, as he obviously can also switch to mics-with-without-proper-larynx-support or "lyric-with-no-drop-larynx-at-all.

Franco is more concerned with developing full capabilities than suitability of a particular voice style. To drop larynx or not drop larynx depends on the singers' style choices and presence or absence of mic. But, there are more comprehensive and more capable skills.

The next question is what is the support Franco mentions? My opinion is that this support is primarily body posture related.

He is all about full appoggio with outward expansion and kicking the breath. Posture is a big part of it but there is a lot more than that.

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