Would it be correct to classify rappers as "singers" by definition?

[ronws]

Early rap.

Some years later, re-labled as "legit" rap.

[Validar]

Not really something that I care about Validar, just to show how pointless all this is. And justifying tastes is a waste of time really. You wont like Rap if we could prove to you that its super refined technical work, neither you will convince anyone to not like it by showing them how its not singing...

Not once did I state or imply I was on an unrelenting quest to steer anyone who likes rap away from it or ask anyone to justify their tastes. I may introduce them to other music, but I would never encourage them to discard what they already like. I simply raised the question of whether there's a distinction between the two.

With that said, how would you define a singer? Are you certain it wouldn't closely (if not entirely) parallel the same definition as someone who wouldn't classify rappers as singers?

As I'm certain you know, a "singer" can (and many have) emotionally move listeners by simply singing a melody line of "ooh's" and "ah's" without lyrics or backing music. I honestly can't envision what someone who is strictly a rapper would be able to do that would be the equivalent of this. To me, this is what clearly separates the two, yet does not mean I am declaring rap invalid as a form of music. Please, let's veer away from that notion once and for all.

So, bottom line - I do feel rapping and singing are two different things. If they weren't, the term "rapping" wouldn't exist.

[gno]

I would draw the line between "rapping" and "singing" where singing involves singing melodies using controlled pitches and rapping doesn't. So, the singers in Linkin Park are both rappers and singers. Some rappers don't sing, some do. Those that don't aren't singers. To me it's as simple as that. If that get's people upset they are free to make up their own definition of a singer, I don't really care. They are probably not going to change my mind as to how I define singing.

[ronws]

Nothing to add. Validar, I like your cousin It kind of avatar pic.

[Guest]

Very interesting takes all around! Just for fun, I'd assert that very few rappers do their thing with NO melody at all. In most rap songs, there will be AT LEAST a few bars in a verse where there is a distinct melody. Maybe just bouncing between like a root note and a flat seventh, but they're still notes. I was in on a session with a rapper last year and when we raised the pitch on the track, he raised the pitch on his vocal. He just thought of it as "higher energy", but his pitch was relevant to the pitch of the track.

It's really easy to draw a comparison to punk; a lot of those guys aren't composing melodies and singing with control, they're just wailing and it happens fit nicely into a pentatonic scale. I like felipe's take, that a rapper is someone who "sings rap". It's logical, inclusive and it saves everyone the trouble of making big disclaimers regarding race!

Edit to add fun exercise: Pick any rap song and listen for the interval between any accented note and it's neighboring non-accented note. Was it a minor third? Well over half the rap I've heard in my life either hangs around the root and bounces up to the third or hangs around the fifth and bounces up to the seventh.

[Validar]

I would draw the line between "rapping" and "singing" where singing involves singing melodies using controlled pitches and rapping doesn't. So, the singers in Linkin Park are both rappers and singers. Some rappers don't sing, some do. Those that don't aren't singers. To me it's as simple as that. If that get's people upset they are free to make up their own definition of a singer, I don't really care. They are probably not going to change my mind as to how I define singing.

I completely agree.

And for the record, there is some rap I do like, but probably not enough to call myself a rap fan. The band Saliva has some rap elements, and I loved their first album. Josie Scott has a very unique voice that I was drawn to immediately. Too bad he left the band.

The rap (or rap inspired) music I like is "fun" based. I don't really care for rap of the "gangster" variety or anyone similar to Eminem.

Nothing to add. Validar, I like your cousin It kind of avatar pic.

haha, if only I had worn the hat and glasses. :lol:

[Codyknight22]

No rappers are not singers.

But they do make music. I got into a discussion with someone abou that and while I don't believe rap is singing, it's still music. Too me music involves passion, meaning, and a little fun. Rap can bring all of that into it. Rap may not involve a lot of pitch, but it can still be beautiful. Here's a rapper very popular with my age group named Mackelmore. He's popular for a song called thrift shop. Just a fun song that you listen too and you smile. But my two favorite songs by him are Wing$ and otherside. Wing$ lyrics are about shoes, but he's genuis enough to use a pair of air Jordan's as a metaphor for appearance and consumerism. But one of my favorite songs is Otherside. Doesn't get enough press if you ask me but a genuinely beatific song that has cone as close to bringing me too tears as any balad or love song I've ever heard.

To me that defines music. So this talk of are rappers singers is pointless because they are musicians.

Isn't that what we all want to be?

[Codyknight22]

Also I'd like to add what a shame it is what my generation is doing to a lot of rap music. What my generation is doing to a lot of music I should say. It's all about drugs, sex, and violence. So much so to the point where the most common words in a song are "bitch, hoe, weed, cocaine, gun, etc." I'm not too proud of my generations taste, and I feel my age groups starting too destroy the image of rap.

[ronws]

And for the record, there is some rap I do like, but probably not enough to call myself a rap fan. The band Saliva has some rap elements, and I loved their first album. Josie Scott has a very unique voice that I was drawn to immediately. Too bad he left the band.

You are probably the only one in this forum besides myself to mention Saliva.

I love this song. Me and co-worker Jason, some years ago, would duet with this song while installing pipe in some new school.

"just a kid with a pad and a pen and a big imagination ......... click, click, boom"