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Proof that Jon Bon Jovi could once sing like on the old records :)

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jonpall

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sun, i used to feel the same way....but....

it all depends........is the singer sick and still performing because of contractual obligations? is he having an off day, where he knows instinctively those notes are not going to be there? it happens, pro or no pro....

on what part of the tour are you seeing them? some less seasoned singers peeter out as the tour goes on....

they just don't hold up.

some singers that become famous can't really sing consistently well. they don't have the technique or the stamina.

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sun, i used to feel the same way....but....

it all depends........is the singer sick and still performing because of contractual obligations? is he having an off day, where he knows instinctively those notes are not going to be there? it happens, pro or no pro....

on what part of the tour are you seeing them? some less seasoned singers peeter out as the tour goes on....

they just don't hold up.

some singers that become famous can't really sing consistently well. they don't have the technique or the stamina.

You have good points,

I guess a singer should at least aim to write songs they can perform, and in case of trouble (like JBJ) WORK HARD to fix it.

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Thanks Bob. I just checked out a 2012 performance and yes. Yes he does.

I was trying to compare how his voiced has fared with ageing as he is now 65 versus JBJ. So obviously age is not the only factor - I don't really have the knowledge to judge others too much on technique but a former vocal coach once warned me away from Steve Tyler's because he is using so much muscle to get the tone. That doesn't mean a lot to me but if correct then it sounds like the same argument for why JBJ now struggles and you'd think ST would be struggling to hit the same notes if it were just down to that.

Steven Tyler is a great example of a rock singer who does not use all the heavy TA musculature. He doesn't do it like JBJ or Steve Walsh. He does it more like Steve Perry - with a lighter voice - CVT "Metal like Neutral". Same with Adam Lambert. Tyler creates that distortion using "creak" which is doesn't stress the voice. He could sing that way into his 90's probably if he wanted to.

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Thanks Geno my ear really isn't sophisticated enough to recognise what is going on in other singers yet so it seemed credible - it was at my first lesson and I reeled off a list of favourite singers and she rubbished all of their techniques including Steven Tyler - I had my doubts and we only lasted 3 lessons! The other thing she said was that Michael Jackson was a natural bass singer but I guess that was a load of BS too but where she got this stuff from who knows - that's SLS coaches for you.

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I liked the way Geno replied to this thread. And it could be that JBJ is still using incorrect technique.

And Sun, thanks for saying that being 50 (or close to it, either way) is no reason to deteriorate. You are right.

One last thing in JBJ's defense before I completely throw him under the bus. Not one person here has been in his shoes. That being said, yeah, he could probably do with a bit more head voice work.

Liam, you are probably right on the high note being a G5, not a Bb5. My bad. So, a 65 year old baritone doing a G5 - ish? Well, I liked it but there's no accounting for my taste. :lol: Maybe I am just caught up in the excitement of his fellow cast members seeing someone the same age as their grandfathers still doing that song.

sidenote: we've had a QR thread. We've had threads for versions of "Child in Time." Maybe we should have one for "Gethsemane."

So, what have we accomplished by "de-throning" JBJ, if he was ever on a throne, to begin with? I mean, I am willing to concede that he's had some performances that were dogs. And that it could be a problem of technique.

Okay ... so .....

Maybe we need to have a "Living on a Prayer" cover thread to show old Jon how it's done.

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Maybe we need to have a "Living on a Prayer" cover thread to show old Jon how it's done.

Okay Ron, you first. :lol:

It's funny how we get these trends going. I'm trying to think of who are the starters. Rob has started both Souls of Silence...and Child of Time, right? Keith started the Queensryche thread. Gethsemane...??? Iris...was it Felipe? Hurt...Ron? Faithfully...Felipe again?

Those are the big ones that have been floating around and turn into challenges. I await what shall come next. I kind of get the sense on here that Living on a Prayer is a song singers don't like...same with Don't Stop Believing...it's as if, those are impossible to sing well, and should instead should be left to be merely attempted by drunken screamers.

I plan to present a Bohemian Rhapsody challenge at some point, once I develop the ability to execute it at a high level. ALL the parts (a multitrack session is available for in depth study of that vocal mess). I don't see enough on here that involves multi-tracking vocals. That is a challenge, too. Any kind of group a capella creation, would be a great demonstration of musicianship and good recording/mixing skill. Yet somehow the only member I have heard contribute such a thing is Slow Start.

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Well, Owen, the problem with "Living on a Prayer" is the same problem with "Don't Stop Believin." The original is so iconic and people cannot help but compare to the original. And I just will not sound like the original, unless it had been done originally by Glenn Hughes, and it was not.

I believe Robert Lunte started the Gethsemane thing. I had played that song for years but I did not record and share it here until after he did his cover, which was so inspiring to me.

I was going to link it but it is no longer available in youtube, as I just checked. However, his student, Will Scott did a solid job with it.

Great, so, now, I need a karaoke track of "Living on a Prayer," texas-style.

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The thing I like about Jon Bon Jovi is his style. Not to mention the song writing. The songs may not be complex but they are full of great hooks. Hooks that made millions. As a singer, he has a great sense of style, and phrasing, which I really appreciate. He carved out his nitch in the 80's and made a contribution to the rock world.

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Okay Ron, you first. :lol:

It's funny how we get these trends going. I'm trying to think of who are the starters. Rob has started both Souls of Silence...and Child of Time, right? Keith started the Queensryche thread. Gethsemane...??? Iris...was it Felipe? Hurt...Ron? Faithfully...Felipe again?

Those are the big ones that have been floating around and turn into challenges. I await what shall come next. I kind of get the sense on here that Living on a Prayer is a song singers don't like...same with Don't Stop Believing...it's as if, those are impossible to sing well, and should instead should be left to be merely attempted by drunken screamers.

I plan to present a Bohemian Rhapsody challenge at some point, once I develop the ability to execute it at a high level. ALL the parts (a multitrack session is available for in depth study of that vocal mess). I don't see enough on here that involves multi-tracking vocals. That is a challenge, too. Any kind of group a capella creation, would be a great demonstration of musicianship and good recording/mixing skill. Yet somehow the only member I have heard contribute such a thing is Slow Start.

ah, yes, but bohemian isn't the tough one .......try "show must go on" and "who wants to live forever"....that d5 on "show" fun, fun, fun, lol!!!!

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The thing I like about Jon Bon Jovi is his style. Not to mention the song writing. The songs may not be complex but they are full of great hooks. Hooks that made millions. As a singer he is not disciplined or trained - but he has a great sense of style, and phrasing, which I really appreciate. He carved out his nitch in the 80's and made a contribution to the rock world.

Too bad he never took the time to figure out what he was doing, as a singer, and apply techniques that would ensure great performances no matter what age. He could still do that, but I just don't seem him applying himself like that. Too much work.

One of my favorites from JBJ was "Midnight in Chelsea," which never got the exposure it should have received. And it was not his highest song. It was storytelling song, romantic, full of meaning, rather than pyrotechnics.

There's probably something wrong with me.

Bob once shared some videos of a bad night for a few singers. including Lou Gramm. And then, he took that (Lou) video down. It seems respect for someone was more important than showing that people have a bad run or a bad night. I can identify with that.

Just like someone recently showed a video of Geoff Tate crashing on "Jet City Woman" on a radio show interview at about 5 or 6 in the morning after a late show at the local venue, meaning that Geoff had not been to sleep and was already worn out from the show.

And totally ignored another radio show performance of the same song at another radio station. On a day that followed from having rest, hydration, and a decent meal. No one linked that in. Since I am already on that highway to you-know-where ...

So, what have we learned from picking apart JBJ? The same we may or may not have learned from picking apart Steve Perry?

(ducking flying vegetables as I click on "submit" ....

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ah, yes, but bohemian isn't the tough one .......try "show must go on" and "who wants to live forever"....that d5 on "show" fun, fun, fun, lol!!!!

Vocally the lead part isn't the toughEST (it's still tough), but the idea of arranging so many parts and assembling that to perfection...down to the timing, pitch, etc., that is the challenge. Not necessarily the notes.

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Just remember, the highest note in "Bohemian Rhapsody" is in the final lyric of "for me" from the extension of "be'elzebub has a devil put aside for me" is done by Roger Taylor, the drummer, not Freddie. And, in a live performance, no one is doing that. It is on a tape loop as they lead into "so you think you can stomp me and spit in my eye."

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Just want to throw in my opinions here...

First off, I love Bon Jovi. Jon is fantastic. He sounded great in the 80's and 90's. Yes, he sounds different now - some may say for worse - but I think he still sounds great. His newer songs are just a little different style than those from the 80's, and for me, that's fine. He still rocks. :)

That being said - going to my first Bon Jovi concert in a couple of days... very excited! :D Even if Richie isn't there. But that's beside the point.

I'm a girl, and for me, "Always" is HARD! I do cover it on my own some days, and while the notes aren't necessarily hard to hit, it's very challenging for me to sustain for the entire song. I don't know what it is about it, but it's definitely hard, so I completely understand that Jon would have trouble with it, even if he could sing it perfectly 20 years ago.

I'd be up for the "Livin' On A Prayer" cover thing... just sayin'. ;)

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Hanalei - yes after reading this thread I decided to do a cover of Always and I'm the same. I can hit all the notes but I felt pretty exhausted at the end. I am still a technique novice so I am probably doing all the things JBJ was doing back then that are hard to sustain.

Count me out of Living On A Prayer - I wouldn't want to be barred from the forum ;)

There was a Gethsemane thread? Gutted I missed that one but will try and look for it to hear everyones versions.

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I'm a girl, and for me, "Always" is HARD! I do cover it on my own some days, and while the notes aren't necessarily hard to hit, it's very challenging for me to sustain for the entire song. I don't know what it is about it, but it's definitely hard, so I completely understand that Jon would have trouble with it, even if he could sing it perfectly 20 years ago.

Yeah, that's what I was also saying in an earlier post, this song is a mutha!

Seriously, it's not that the notes are difficult to reach but it's the amount of intensity and stamina needed to do it with the right feel and passion like the original. The song also has a lot of range and if you try to simulate the JBJ sound and do it all or mostly in chest you need to be good with thinning out as you climb and then when you reach the chorus you need to quickly find a sweet spot and bridge a little, stay there and belt this sucker out with feel! Another tricky part is to find the best possible vowel for your voice on the AAAAAAAALLLLways part and kinda sing it like OOOOOOOUUUUUways, cause otherwise it can get splatty and ugly like you wouldnn't believe it.

The best way I can describe the way I feel when singing this is mental pressure and it's like walking an extremely tight rope, but all in a fun way of course.

Forget about "Livin' On A Prayer". Other than the insane modulation for the final chorus, it's not that difficult of a song, do "Always" instead.

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geno, it's interesting you say that, because i had a friend of a friend that worked as a roadie for bon jovi and he used to tell us all about the vocal exercises bon jovi did, and how he'd lie down on the floor and practice specific sections of songs...i heard he worked with several coaches...

power and hanalei, when you finish with "always" try "keep the faith" and "miracle." those will give you a workout too...lol!!!!!

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Bob - you're information is better than mine. I'm just speculating due to the trouble he was having from watching all the different videos over the years. He is changing his tone quite a bit at different points of time. The 80's Bon Jovi tone was very consistent, and then things start changing in the late 90's to the point at which a couple nights ago he can't hit a Bb4. You'd think with good training he would be able to retain a consistent tone throughout the years like Steve Perry or Gino Vannelli or others.

He definitely uses a heavier technque than Tyler or Perry or Lambert, which is difficult to sustain during the show and during a tour. It just sounds to me like he is not thinning out his folds. He's holding on to too much chest as he goes up - this is such a common problem. If he had a lot of coaching it seems that he missed that part of it.?

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could be..not sure....maybe he's just tired of this type of hard vocalizing?

i know you're big on the lightening lately and not carrying up too much chest (like dan) and several others. i'm just the opposite..i feel you can if you support well enough and accept that the range will be limited when you sing this heavier way.....i'm not (yet) convinced in the "lightening is the way."

i've always been able to bring chest up really high, but i'm certain i transition into head as well.

lately i'm of the opinion it all begins with the onset...if you're not banging and slapping the folds together, you are going to last regardless of how much lean or weight or compression you place on the voice. the folds can take the squeeze (compression) but they have a hard time with the jarring and slapping activity.(glottal attacks).

how do you feel?

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dan and geno, please don't take anything i'm saying as a "know it all" response...you know i'm not that way.

i respect your opinions as i hope you will mine.

i'm just exploring like anyone else, and i have found success with this.

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I'm bringing this back from the mothballs.

This was shot live a couple of nights ago at Chicago's "Soldier Field".

Now anybody who ever tried to sing Bon Jovi's "Always" with the right feel and intensity will tell you that it's a VERY demanding song, no question about it, but for the life of me I have no idea what's going on here.

It starts out OK in the verse but then completely falls apart. Maybe someone who's knowledgeable can give some insight. I have some thoughts but I'm curious what you guys think Jon is doing or not doing....

He's not lightening his voice as he goes up in pitch. It must be aweful to be him when he sings that song. I checked out numerous youtube clips of him singing that song live in 2013 and he's always flat and strainy on the high notes. I really think he should look for a better vocal coach. How about some of this forum's favorite vocal coaches? Perhaps someone here should try to contact him, for real, and suggest a proper coach to him? :)

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