Administrator Robert Lunte Posted March 8, 2013 Administrator Share Posted March 8, 2013 If anyone else has files to share, let's hear it... I did enjoy Geran's contribution.... Im assuming the 3rd version was the more musculature sample Geran in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 When actually singing it does matter, depending on what type of effect you are going for. And the training is worth nothing if it is not helping you to actually sing. So train both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Bob, if you watch Rob's lecture, do you HEAR any lightening on his sirens? No, of course not. But it's still happening in terms of what the musculature is doing. You actually have to lighten the mass a bit in order to keep the volume the same. i'm gonna play devil's advocate... you made a blanket statement...you said... "You actually have to lighten the mass a bit in order to keep the volume the same." my question to you......why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think that for beginners it is easier to bridge earlier and this also makes it easier to drop some bad habits. Helps to get the feeling of a resonance change without feeling as if you are forcing it. Afterwards it can be a stylistic choice. This bridging early or bridging late is very subjective also. It can be any where from C4 to F4 that Passaggio starts to happen for individuals. Right now I must be in "head register" to sing G4. A few years ago I had to be in "Head" to sing an E4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 If you are singing an A4 by itself whatever mass and volume is however you want to sing it. Just singing that note by itself has no bearing on bridging early or late. What notes come before and after and how you want the effect will determine whether to bridge early or late. Bridging is going from the lower "register" to the Higher "Register" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 So we agree that to sing an A4 it doesn't matter if you bridge early or late? Like in this song on "Jesus" where it goes straight to A4 at 0:41: I am not a teacher but it seems that the concept of bridging early or late is to help teach us and our bodies how to sing in the different coordiations. So an A4 may be sung in what some call "Chest" or m2 or an A4 may be sung in what some call "Head" or m1 or somewhere in between. By bridging early my body grew accustom to singing in "Head" but keeping a connection to chest or some of the musculature involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted March 8, 2013 Administrator Share Posted March 8, 2013 Well, I guess I stimulated some discussion... thats cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Rach in there he did a timed "very good stuff". :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Yes, but my point is that you end up with the same sound like IMO Robert did in his demo. So what's the point of early versus late when it results in the same (. Raching, I think that if you BOTH make that vocal mode switch a bit higher in pitch AND start the siren with a louder tone, you increase your chances of ending in CURBING on the highest note as opposed to mln, thereby ending up with a more beefy sound even on the highest note. Ultimately I think there is a point where TOO much vocal tech detail talk just gets in the way of good singing. Cheers, all you guys :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 You guys are correct, on an A4, it makes little to no difference. Possibly volume wise, as a late bridge is likely to be a heavier and louder phonation overall, but tone wise, it ends up being basically the same registration up at that pitch. Though A4 is still kind of low to end a really late bridge...you can incorporate a little extra M1 musculature into that pitch too. But a note like B4...not a chance, not for a baritone. That's gotta be a pure head tone no matter how you bridged up to it. But then there's the second bridge...I personally don't lighten the mass at the second bridge so I don't really know, but I suppose in someone who makes another registration shift up there, they could move that bridge later or earlier as well... It's all quite complex. owen, that's what i'm trying to get you to realize..it's not that complex..... it's all how you approach it. remember if you tell your voice it's difficult or complex, it will see to it that you get your wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielformica Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 owen said "If we all just shut up and practiced it would probably be a whole lot simpler, wouldn't it? " rep point owen:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 yes, you said a mouthful on that one. you'll see...if you stick with your workouts you will get to a place where you'll be wondering where the bridge went. the muscles will be stronger and you will likely find yourself going more towards a mentality of resonance shifts than register shifts. one voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Rach is just saying in his very own long way that both samples sent were in modal voice. Just that. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 owen, that's what i'm trying to get you to realize..it's not that complex..... it's all how you approach it. remember if you tell your voice it's difficult or complex, it will see to it that you get your wish. Beautiful statement, Bob. Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Yes, but that is more advanced I guess. But apparently nobody can give a clear explanation to the early/late bridging. The way I understand it is this (using cvt speak): Early bridging: Vocal mode switch happens lower in pitch. Late bridging: Vocal mode switch happens higher in pitch. It's as simple as that. In addition to this is what I mentioned before - with late bridging often comes more volume so that vocal mode switch will often be from overdrive to curbing (and not mln) or even edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilad Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 All this discussion is anything but simple! Confusing as hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted March 9, 2013 Administrator Share Posted March 9, 2013 For starters, you guys are trying to put some kind of quantitative formula or explanation behind a notion that really starts and exists as a metaphor. The idea of bridging being "late" or "early". Bridges are not necessarily "late" or "early" and it isn't me that started classifying the different kinds of bridges we are all referring to as a measurement of time, I know some teachers do, but as I tried to point out in my video, its not sufficient.... you'll never fully get to the root of the answer if you are thinking about this in the context of time... I believe a greater truth lies in the point I was making in the video... the engagement of the musculature; how much and how much you bring up or "pull" to M2 or, in the case of "early" bridges, how much you choose NOT to pull up to M2. When I step back and look at this, what I see is we are discussing issues of musculature and mass. So focus on the musculature; what muscles, and how much engagement of those muscles in both examples.... Thinking about it as only 'late' or 'early' is just too vague, metaphoric, and misses a lot of what is REALLY going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 For starters, you guys are trying to put some kind of quantitative formula or explanation behind a notion that really starts and exists as a metaphor. The idea of bridging being "late" or "early". Bridges are not necessarily "late" or "early" and it isn't me that started classifying the different kinds of bridges we are all referring to as a measurement of time, I know some coaches do, but as I tried to point out in my video, its not sufficient.... you'll never fully get to the root of the answer if you are thinking about this in the context of time... I believe a greater truth lies in the point I was making in the video... the engagement of the musculature; how much and how much you bring up or "pull" to M2 or, in the case of "early" bridges, how much you choose NOT to pull up to M2. When I step back and look at this, what I see is we are discussing issues of musculature and mass. So focus on the musculature; what muscles, and how much engagement of those muscles in both examples.... Thinking about it as only 'late' or 'early' is just too vague, metaphoric, and misses a lot of what is REALLY going on. I think you are right, Robert. It's really more of a concept than an mathematical formula. Though I understand the need for the math model or analogy. I do with with people's statements. Often times, a person says thing and they "don't add up" and I cannot really express that differently. In a similar vein, some people find comfort in the math of the voice, "50 % twang" and "A dash of cry." "Sauteed in a light mass." Just as the passaggio seems to shift a little, depending on vowels, might also the bridging of earlier and later also depend on vowels? And there are some late bridgers who bridge earlier than they may realize because they were operating from the vantage point of "I'm bridging late," even if the body was making a subtle shift. For example, with "Ah" I think you can shift later. "EE" on the other hand, may have you shifting earlier if you intend on using the vowel shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Stuff like this is why I have my redneck mantra. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Ron, I've actually noticed the more and more I sing the closer my mentality has steered in the direction of that mantra. It's too simple for a beginner but it really helps keep things in check for someone who has already done a good amount of technical training and doesn't need all that "noise" clouding up their brain anymore. You may be right, too, Owen. For I went through the tech stuff. And in the end, found it all too much to worry about simultaneously. So, one can work on each item. Then, once all the items are in place, the mantra is a short-hand for all of it. Of course, some will say that I don't have all my items in place. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 owen, you can learn to shift resonance and if it's done right you'd swear you were still in "chest voice." guys like michael bolton do this a lot. you don't have to bridge. it may be okay to learn to, but you can move away from it when you get strong enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Bob, I have the feeling that you have become so good at bridging that you feel that you're not bridging at all. Raching, I have the feeling that you like to sing songs in the passagio with a lot of overdrive (cvt) so it would mean you're not really bridging at all (below C5 of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 well, maybe it's more that the activity has become so ingrained you just don't think about it. you just sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakin Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Okay then prove it. Send us a file of you staying in a medium mode on a slow ascending siren from a comfortable note into something that you would consider really high for your voice... That's just totally not my experience with it at all. If I was able to stay in a medium weight mode throughout my range with no problems, singing would be a lot easier and I'd do it. But it just doesn't seem to exist. Not sure exactly what mode "medium mode" would map to. If it is curbing then that mode can be maintained for really high notes as well as really low notes, but volume must raised with pitch for most of the CVT-modes. According to some a high curbing-note would not be medium. Depends on what medium means ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 curbing has the cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now