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Bridging early/Late

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gilad

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Owen, once you build the strength, the sensation of bridging goes away and a sensation of 'one voice' replaces it. What you and I are doing is pretty much the same thing... don't let these guys confuse you too much with their talk track from other programs. If you were in their bodies, you would feel pretty much the same things.

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Then breakin, it's that volume raise I'm talking about. You can't keep the volume from raising without changing the mode, i.e. bridging. Good, I have not gone crazy, that is a real thing...

By medium mode I do mean curbing. And curbing has been mystifying me recently. For one thing the chestier way people tend to do it just feels so chokey to me, THAT feels like i'm not centered in the mode, so I must be doing that wrong. Or I can go lighter but then I'm doing what I think would be termed curbing-like MLN. But where is the middle? It puzzles me that CVT has their concept of "the technique must work instantly", and somehow curbing mode falls into that? But I'm curious how anyone could solidify a true medium weight phonation on a high pitch (which would be curbing mode) instantly, without lots of training. I still working to get to that middle point in the voice. Do they mention anything about the TA/CT ratio of curbing? That could clear some things up. I'm getting the impression curbing is relatively 50/50 which would make it a super difficult coordination to stabilize.

I'm sure this confusion has a lot to do with the fact that I don't own the CVT book, but anybody care to clarify?

As far as I know there is nothing on TA/CT in the CVT-book but a) I don't have the newest version and B) they might call it something else. In the CVT-book they have instructions on what vowels are easier to switch modes with. They also have curves of volume of the different modes for different pitches. You could maintain a mode I guess, but with all of the curbing-like-neutral etc you might be more centered in those rather than in pure curbing (if that is the terminology they have chosen). The CVT-book has a lot of sound samples and instruction of how you should do to find centered curbing. Those might help you, not sure. Curbing is harder to find than the others. For me overdrive and neutral has come really easy, curbing on some pitches I guess...

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I think all this stuff depends on what level your at. If a complete beginner started trying to bridge late straight away, I personally think 90% would constrict (talking from my own experience!) which is why I like roberts approach on this for beginners. Then replacing the bridging early for the one voice idea. That's the way it happened for me.

bob, I have a question. I know what you're saying in that you don't have to bridge early. If you use the right vowel then it works. Is this how you very first learned it? Like, when you first heard of the bridge/break. Did you just gradually increase the amount of notes above your break you could sing in this way or did you practice falsetto for a long time. I'm interested in how you developed this.

I might be missing something but I think we are all after the same outcome but they are just different paths to get there?

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Owen its possible to do what you propose. Same volume through the passagio with the shift.

The thing is, doing it instantly from reading instructions, wont happen. At least not in a way thats usefull. And for the record I cant match curbing with anything I know either. The description should go towards head registration, but there is the hold, cry, and specially the idea of moving to a stronger mode for protection, when covered vowels should be the easier possible way to sing...

And to me the mode edge has everything to do with covering.

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Bridging early/late whether using CVT or TVS or KTA to me can be related to shifting gears in a car and using a clutch. Beginners need to learn when and how to use it. After you get used to using a clutch you can feel when you need to shift gears. In different situations you may shift at different times. Some people get good enough at the feel that they do not need to use the clutch anymore they know where the "Gears" are and can link them smoothly.

What helped with me concerning CVT and what they call modes is the fact that there are different "Gears" used in singing and they have different uses.

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Bridging early/late whether using CVT or TVS or KTA to me can be related to shifting gears in a car and using a clutch. Beginners need to learn when and how to use it. After you get used to using a clutch you can feel when you need to shift gears. In different situations you may shift at different times. Some people get good enough at the feel that they do not need to use the clutch anymore they know where the "Gears" are and can link them smoothly.

What helped with me concerning CVT and what they call modes is the fact that there are different "Gears" used in singing and they have different uses.

Agreed, at least from the perspective of the beginner student, eventually, you train up to a "one voice" sensation.

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This may not be your intention but I see the "lift up pull back" as a clutch mechanism. After you get used to the feeling of a resonance shift and the coordinations getting stronger it fades away aftrer awhile.

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This may not be your intention but I see the "lift up pull back" as a clutch mechanism. After you get used to the feeling of a resonance shift and the coordinations getting stronger it fades away aftrer awhile.

Your exactly right MDEW, that is what it is... its just a training technique for the beginning stages... and not everyone needs to do it, but some, definitely do.

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I think all this stuff depends on what level your at. If a complete beginner started trying to bridge late straight away, I personally think 90% would constrict (talking from my own experience!) which is why I like roberts approach on this for beginners. Then replacing the bridging early for the one voice idea. That's the way it happened for me.

bob, I have a question. I know what you're saying in that you don't have to bridge early. If you use the right vowel then it works. Is this how you very first learned it? Like, when you first heard of the bridge/break. Did you just gradually increase the amount of notes above your break you could sing in this way or did you practice falsetto for a long time. I'm interested in how you developed this.

I might be missing something but I think we are all after the same outcome but they are just different paths to get there?

gina, it would take a very long time to explain (feel free to skype me if you'd like).

to make a long story really short....(probably will be leaving stuff out)

basically i just didn't know to transition...i just did my scales (all kinds) as high as i could till i couldn't go any higher, day after day,..did i push and strain? sure i did, but it never hurt or sidetracked me.

then i realized there were notes (lol!!! didn't even know note names at that time) that no matter what i did i couldn't get past.

and i read book after book, watched video after video, talked to all kinds of people searching for the answer till finally i got a hold of a certain vocal teacher's program (who's name i will not mention) who explained vowels and vowel modifications.

the vowels i realized were the key to the way past, but the vowels by themselves wasn't the complete answer..the vowels had to be energized (supported).

there's a lot more to it than that, but i still say the key remains the support.

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cool. It's really interesting to hear different peoples way they got through it. My story is so different. For ages I just thought that my head voice was weak and that's the way I thought it would always be! didn't know there was more than a breathy weak head voice! Until I went to uni and discovered that wasn't the case! lol!

I just know that if I said to some of my students (who are complete beginners) just sing up to as high as you can, we'd hit a wall, which is why I tend to get them to 'bridge early' as a temporary solution. Just interesting to see how people get to where they are now, thanks.

I would agree that support is key (rhymes lol)

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I believe that temporary solutions are fine as long as we can keep in mind that they are just another step on the ladder, a piece of the puzzle to help build the whole.

One person may have good support but bad placement, another Good placement bad support. Sometimes you don't know what piece you are missing.

I had thought Twang was a bad thing that needed to be suppressed. Who knew one of the things I was trying to get rid of was a thing I needed?

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cool. It's really interesting to hear different peoples way they got through it. My story is so different. For ages I just thought that my head voice was weak and that's the way I thought it would always be! didn't know there was more than a breathy weak head voice! Until I went to uni and discovered that wasn't the case! lol!

I just know that if I said to some of my students (who are complete beginners) just sing up to as high as you can, we'd hit a wall, which is why I tend to get them to 'bridge early' as a temporary solution. Just interesting to see how people get to where they are now, thanks.

I would agree that support is key (rhymes lol)

in retrospect, i'm pretty certain while i was doing these non bridging scales, i was inadvertently developing

strength.

if were ever to become a teacher, i would try to get the student to remain t/a based (on certain exercises) as long as they could.

those roger kain exercises..... he'd keep emphasizing not to go into head voice.....james lugo same thing....

i feel like i'm leaving things out..the descending head voice slides (anthony frisell) also helped a great deal. over time the folds adduct easier in the head voice mode and the sound gets deeper.....

again, i'm just a singer, but i truly believe the reason some folks aren't seeing gains is they undertrain and undersing.

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Rob you have some killer stamina.

Do you even eat lunch? Your skype lessons go straight through those hours!!!

I'm curious to know what tricks you're doing to get through these long days, I know you swear by your singer's tea and probably do a lot of buzzing, but there's gotta be more to it than that?

I think he has Energizer batteries that fit right between the shoulder blades.

:lol:

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