Can't Find "Twang"

[johndavis]

No matter what I do, it sounds nasal and bad?

Is there a certain feeling or sound I should hear?

Should twang only be used on high notes?

Also, where should the placement be?

I don't understand: "THE HIGHER THE PITCH,, THE DEEPER THE PLACEMENT" in Pillars.

[Guest]

It's supposed to sound moderately ducky. Quack quack quack.... nyeh nyeh nyeh. It helps different people in different ranges for me it helps everywhere. Occasionally balance it out with some mum mum still maintaining twang (not quack). Also switching to other vowels with twang is awesome.

As you ascend place the resonance deeper in your head whilst cutting back on air. There was a video on it but I can't find it right now lol :)

[Rafael Pashamov]

Still cant figure what the hell is twang.. I think I was doing better when not knowing all this terminology and "technique": ( When you just sing , it kind of happens, when you think about it,it's fail

[benny82]

Twang is really awesome for calibration. To me, there are three major elements in singing, which are twang, support, and dampening. The problem with support and dampening is, that you can overdo them. If you provide too much air pressure, it is impossible to get a good balance with twang. If you do too much dampening, you will sound dull and it is extremely hard to get back into a brighter and more penetrating sound.

Twang on the other hand is hard to overdo. You can start out really really extremely twangy, and then just dampen your larynx slowly until you get the sound you desire. This is why it is so good to start out with really twangy phonations. Starting with breath or starting with dampening doesn't give you that nice option to calibrate slowly towards the desired configuration. This is useful throughout your whole range.

That said, an extremely twangy phonation is always quacky and always nasal, that is not a problem. You will correct that later using larynx dampening.

[Guest]

Think of dampening and twang as powerups x) I feel like twanging is more natural but am still getting used to dampening.

[VideoHere]

you can also dampen twang to put a really nice cry in the tone.

[benny82]

Hmm, from my experience extreme twang is always nasal, but nasality doesn't always mean that there is twang.

[benny82]

Twang is a narrowing just above the vocal folds and nasality is controlled by the velar pharyngeal port. And they can be controlled independently.

Ahh, okay, now I understand. What I mean is not 'real nasality', but 'auditory nasality'. Extreme twang always sounds nasal because frequencies around 800Hz are amplified. Those frequencies are associated with nasality from an auditory point of view. This has nothing to do with the velum.

Real nasality, of course, is created by an open velum and has nothing to do with twang. My velar port is actually closed when in extreme twang position, but it still sounds nasal. It's just an auditory illusion.

[johndavis]

I still don't understand.

So twang shouldn't be forced???

Also could anyone answer my placement question?

[VideoHere]

you will develop a cry to the voice, or curbing as cvt calls it. this results from the lean you put on the voice. don't associate twang with the quack only.

[benny82]

Benny, here i made a short audio clip that maybe will clear up this thing for you

https://soundcloud.com/gerardon89/nothing-twang-twan

Cool clip. Thanks. That's exactly what I am trying to describe. The second one will definitely sound nasal to many people, but it is just an acoustic phenomenon. The third one is "real" nasality.

The 800Hz was a little bit off. I looked it is actually 1000-1200 Hz. Nasality has another formant around 250-300 Hz, so Rachsing is correct, too.

Twang enhances frequencies from 1000-3500 Hz. The 'peak' of the increase is at around 2500-3500 Hz, so Rachsings info is also correct in this regard.

The shared frequency band around 1000 Hz for nasality and twang causes them to sometimes be associated with each other as far as I know.

If you dampen your larynx correctly the 'twang frequencies' below 2500 Hz are basically dampened away and only the peak around 2500-3500 Hz remains in form of the 'singer's formant'.

The German Wikipedia differentiates the two concepts as 'physiological nasality' (open velum) and 'acoustic nasality' (increase of power around 250 Hz and/or 1000 Hz)

[benny82]

I'm not aware that twang enhances frequencies that low. Do you have any sources for that info?

Doing a quick search I found this one. Of course it's not really scientific, have to have a deeper look tomorrow.

http://www.hfm-weimar.de/popvoices/media/method_twang/twang.pdf

On the third page there is a figure: While up to 1000 Hz there are almost no changes, they start to appear just a bit above that, around 1100 Hz.

There is also some stuff about nasality here. The type of twang that only produces 'acoustic nasality' is not called nasal here, but it is called 'oral twang'. This differs from author to author, because oral twang is not nasal in a physiological way, it is just percieved as being nasal by a lot of people.

[VideoHere]

twang can be combined with a cry or each can exist seperately.

[benny82]

benny,

Thank you for the source. Though it seems that the enhancement is more based on adduction and not so much on epilaryngeal narrowing (Twang). I separate those two.

Ahh, ok, that may be the case. I usually unify the narrowing and fold compression into one action. Here is another picture which is what I probably based my inital statement on, because I read a lot of Journal of Voice in the past:

Of course, as Bob points out, cry and twang are separate actions, which both give you compression. I don't know: Can you do twang compression without epilaryngeal narrowing? or vice versa?

[ronws]

I did have a question about this. If twang is a narrowing of the epiglottal channel, or as described above, epilaryngeal (and I am not sure I understand that), then would it be opposed to open throat? For it sounds like a constriction of the throat, which would actually, I think, functionally, drive all the sound into the sinus.

[ronws]

So, open throat doesn't actually mean open throat? And we shoud sing with constriction? I did that once and received one of the worst reviews I have had.

[ronws]

Then, I am not understanding. A narrowing of the epiglottic channel or area. Though it might form a space for which some notes resonate, theoretically, it is also a narrow space than not narrowing it.

The other hard part for me to understand is how to gradiate or control in microminiature amounts, the swallowing reflex. How do you half-swallow and are we, when narrowing the epiglottic channel or area or whatver, trying to sing while swallowing, since, according to my limited knowledge of anatomy, the epiglottis is a flap controlled by a sphincter that closes over the larynx when we swallow food or drink.

Absolutely anyone is welcome to correct my knowledge of what the epiglottis is and my feelings will not be hurt.

[chamcham]

She talks about Twang in the beginning.

A few more twang vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOxgi10h87E

[benny82]

Twang and epilaryngeal narrowing is basically the same. Adduction and twang are different.

Hmm, I thought twang always causes additional adduction as a side effect. But of course you can also get adduction by other means (Bernoulli effect).

[Felipe Carvalho]

There is no need for constrictions or nasality.

If you are using the program, follow it instead of trying to fix stuff out of the blue. Book a session as Owen pointed and get it solved.

Doing random exercises, specially manipulating breath flow and attack without asserting that is being executed precisely, will lead to problems.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Rach, the usuall definition includes the notion of effort and of making something "tight".

Even if some may feel a slight sensation in this direction, how many other things can be done together with it that will result in a constriction?

There is no need for constrictions. You dont have to feel anything other than comfort to execute it properly.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Oh I see Rach, if you dont mean that with constricted, then I absolutely agree too.

[Danielformica]

Quick question is "a type 3 compression" a cvt or estillian term?

Just curious never heard that one before

[Danielformica]

Very scholarly of you.:)

[benny82]

Its always somehow problematic to walk on the line between physiological correctness and practical usefulness.

Of course you use constriction in a physiological way while singing, but singer's mostly don't feel it in a way they would associate with 'constriction' from a sensory perspective, they feel comfortable and relaxed.

It's physiologically correct that you tighten the throat while twanging, but really not a good picture for learning to sing.

It is a problem in general that sensory feedback from the larynx an its surroundings is sparse, that's why 'picture words' or visualization concepts (resonant spaces) are still very powerful when learning to sing.