How does this guy get so much vocal power?

[Steven Fraser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnHmmQS5um4&feature=player_embedded

How does John Farnam (above) gets so much power up top, beginning after the 6:00 minute mark.

VIDEOHERE: Well, he is a fairly natural high voiced tenor. Just listen to his speaking voice to get a sense of that.

His phonation is fairly-well balanced, and as a high tenor for certain vowels he can sing with power up above tenor high C. The highest sustained note in this recording is Eb5.

As a resonance strategy, he is doing those top notes the same way Pavarotti did, he is tuning his F2 to the 3rd harmonic (H3), and singing a soft fundamental with a fairly long closed quotient. See how he leans his head back, and drops his jaw significantly up there? To keep the F2 on H3 strategy working, he has done this, and also likely allowed his larynx to rise so that F2 will be high enough to match H3.

The complexity in this tone is due to an effect, perhaps false-fold oscillation, that he is using. You can see that even the noise is getting amplified by F2, and also by a formant up above 4000 Hz, which is about where F5 is when singing with a high larynx. Here is the spectragram:

I hope others more familiar with this voice will cime in.

[VideoHere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnHmmQS5um4&feature=player_embedded

VIDEOHERE: Well, he is a fairly natural high voiced tenor. Just listen to his speaking voice to get a sense of that.

His phonation is fairly-well balanced, and as a high tenor for certain vowels he can sing with power up above tenor high C. The highest sustained note in this recording is Eb5.

As a resonance strategy, he is doing those top notes the same way Pavarotti did, he is tuning his F2 to the 3rd harmonic (H3), and singing a soft fundamental with a fairly long closed quotient. See how he leans his head back, and drops his jaw significantly up there? To keep the F2 on H3 strategy working, he has done this, and also likely allowed his larynx to rise so that F2 will be high enough to match H3.

The complexity in this tone is due to an effect, perhaps false-fold oscillation, that he is using. You can see that even the noise is getting amplified by F2, and also by a formant up above 4000 Hz, which is about where F5 is when singing with a high larynx. Here is the spectragram:

I hope others more familiar with this voice will cime in.

thanks as always steve. he impresses the hell out of me.

[kalapoka]

What a beautiful voice and what a great song!!! Thanks for posting this. I didn't know him before. Just Beautiful!

[joshual]

Just love his voice! His distortion is so beautiful, makes me remember of Paul Rodgers.

Any tips to create that kind of distortion? it's really what i want to achieve

[VideoHere]

What a beautiful voice and what a great song!!! Thanks for posting this. I didn't know him before. Just Beautiful!

I myself just discovered him. I was learning the song "lonesome loser" and the y.t. video keep saying he wasn't the first singer of little river band. so i clicked on some more and found more but you have to go to my "magic moments post to hear them (lol)!!

listen to these (he is considered one of the top vocalist pop vocalists.

when he was younger....

later on

lahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpSL0AjH7CYtely

(still sounds great)

[jonpall]

Yeah, he's just the perfect singer, really A very strong tenor with slight distortion. Awesome. If you haven't already done it, you guys should definitely look this guy up on youtube and listen to that voice.

[Snax]

OMFG this guy is amazing!!! Thanks for shirring that video. I'd never heard him before and now I'm definitely going to search for more. I love his sense of humour too and I'm very similar in that regard.

[aldertate]

He uses a microphone.. that's how he gets so much power..

He's a leggiero, maybe even lighter... not a big house voice either..... but he does sound pretty cool.

[VideoHere]

He uses a microphone.. that's how he gets so much power..

He's a leggiero, maybe even lighter... not a big house voice either..... but he does sound pretty cool.

aldertate, this guy's not a big house voice?

start from 2:00

[aldertate]

lmao.. nope.. he's far from a big house voice...

These guys are big house:

Franco Corelli:

Jussi Bjorling:

Jan Peerce:

Jon Vickers:

All of these guys are tenors. Pavarotti and Domingo would eat the guy for lunch too. Really, it's a totally different game.

He's got a nice voice, I'm not saying that...but.. he's not these guys, nor is he even Ian Gillan (who owned that role)

[VideoHere]

lmao.. nope.. he's far from a big house voice...

These guys are big house:

Franco Corelli:

Jussi Bjorling:

Jan Peerce:

Jon Vickers:

All of these guys are tenors. Pavarotti and Domingo would eat the guy for lunch too. Really, it's a totally different game.

He's got a nice voice, I'm not saying that...but.. he's not these guys, nor is he even Ian Gillan (who owned that role)

in comparison to classically trained opera tenors you're absolutely right. oh man, no argument there.

as far as the j.c.s. part, as great as i.g. is , i prefer farnham personally.

it's like dio versus j.l. turner...i happen to prefer turner's vocal sound. just a preferance

[jonpall]

aldertate, I'm wondering how you can state that you can hear this, without having him in the same room as yourself. Steven Fraser has already said that he's using similar techniques as Pavarotti to get a big voice. I wonder if Steven agrees with you. He has considerable experience with opera and I'm also wondering if he can see from his spectragram just how loud Farnham is. In any case, maybe and maybe not he can sing over an orcestra without a mic, but for his genre of music he really is a big powerhouse. And my guess is that 99% of people in the world would rather have a voice like that than an opera voice. No disrespect to opera lovers meant, but I think this is just a fact. To each his own and I personally think all the singers aldertate mentioned sing beautifully. Most of us just like guys like Farnham a lot more. He's also been singing for many decades, BOTH with and without a gritty sound and it hasn't hurt his voice. But if you plan on an opera career, seriously, it's probably better to focus completely on that and don't sing with grit, or even pop or rock for that matter.

I also find it interesting to note that I think the type of distortion he's doing would be called creaking for some people and not distortion. Of course, that adds to the sensation of power, even though it probably doesn't make it louder.

Cheers, guys!

[aldertate]

aldertate, I'm wondering how you can state that you can hear this, without having him in the same room as yourself. Steven Fraser has already said that he's using similar techniques as Pavarotti to get a big voice. I wonder if Steven agrees with you. He has considerable experience with opera and I'm also wondering if he can see from his spectragram just how loud Farnham is. In any case, maybe and maybe not he can sing over an orcestra without a mic, but for his genre of music he really is a big powerhouse. And my guess is that 99% of people in the world would rather have a voice like that than an opera voice. No disrespect to opera lovers meant, but I think this is just a fact. To each his own and I personally think all the singers aldertate mentioned sing beautifully. Most of us just like guys like Farnham a lot more. He's also been singing for many decades, BOTH with and without a gritty sound and it hasn't hurt his voice. But if you plan on an opera career, seriously, it's probably better to focus completely on that and don't sing with grit, or even pop or rock for that matter.

I also find it interesting to note that I think the type of distortion he's doing would be called creaking for some people and not distortion. Of course, that adds to the sensation of power, even though it probably doesn't make it louder.

Cheers, guys!

Because it's true jonpall... lmao..

[joshual]

WTF?

Why the old debate amplified vs unamplified or modern vs classical singers is taking place here????

Both style and artits are respectable. Pavarotti and Domingo would eat the guy for lunch, well... great!

Could Pavarotti makes some distortion or anything that has not to deal with classical training. I don't think so.

Have you ever watch the videos on youtube when Pavarotti sing with rock/modern singers, for me guys like bryan adams eat Pavarotti for breakfeast in modern/rock style. Why, because it's true aldertate... Imao.

It's just a matter of taste, style etc. You can't compare two things that are completely different even if those things are called singing.

[aldertate]

WTF?

Why the old debate amplified vs unamplified or modern vs classical singers is taking place here????

Both style and artits are respectable. Pavarotti and Domingo would eat the guy for lunch, well... great!

Could Pavarotti makes some distortion or anything that has not to deal with classical training. I don't think so.

Have you ever watch the videos on youtube when Pavarotti sing with rock/modern singers, for me guys like bryan adams eat Pavarotti for breakfeast in modern/rock style. Why, because it's true aldertate... Imao.

It's just a matter of taste, style etc. You can't compare two things that are completely different even if those things are called singing.

I've seen Thomas Hampson (opera singer) use grit in a live setting, filling a small hall. It can be done, and done quite effectively.

Size of a voice isn't a matter of tastes, but a matter of fact.

I'm all for ppl singing however they want. Music's a form of expression, and in that regard it's truly open ended upon the possibilities of sounds that are capable of being created.

Mic techniques are a relatively recent phenomenon. I think what bands like Nile, Opeth and Blind Guardian are doing merely reflect some of the possibilities in this new field. The advancements in gear has been a great benefit to more accurately capturing the many subtle nuances of the singing voice.

Emotional arguments rarely solve anything, and are often utilized in lieu of facts. I was asked if Farnham was a big house voice, and I answered truthfully. I'm sorry my answer bothers you. But it is what it is.

Your getting off the point of my response and I'm about to offer you a kleenex :D

[aldertate]

in comparison to classically trained opera tenors you're absolutely right. oh man, no argument there.

as far as the j.c.s. part, as great as i.g. is , i prefer farnham personally.

it's like dio versus j.l. turner...i happen to prefer turner's vocal sound. just a preferance

true true true... I can't deny I'm a Dio fanboy, but can't deny that J.L. Turner's got some killer chops... I think my favorite Ian Gillan stuff is actually a live concert from when he was playing with Sabbath. Very sweet stuff there... but... Ian even admitted that Dio was too big a voice for him to do. Dio's got a cannon for a voice.

I like the Farnham clips I've heard. He's pretty cool, and does some nice stuff. I find some of the things he does with his voice to be fascinating.

I know I'd be happy to be able to sing like him lmao.. if you happen to have any favorite jl turner clips, I'd really like to check them out. I haven't heard his voice in some time..

[Jens]

the things is you cant compare volume from a recorded clip... you just cant, size of voice and what not, operatic singer sing with a more dopey soundcolor sure they will sound bigger, but that is NOT an indication on how powerfull the singer is or what db he is singing...

Then you can discuss how much you want...

[analog]

Sucks that this discussion is turning somewhat sour because I'm fascinated by this. Namely, the concept(in pop music) that vocal fach has NO bearing or merit for discussion. I think this is crazy. I mean, it's obvious that any sized voice(if healthy) can enjoy a full connected range with all sound colors. And I would thank modern vocal approaches for that...the idea that a baritone or bass is not limited by the size of their voice.

Check out this link for an example of what I'm talking about: http://www.voiceteacher.com/vocal_fach.html

He states:

Tenor vs. Baritone:

(1) Have the singer vocalize a three-tone scale in the extreme low register. Then have him slide two octaves on a "sirening" function connecting full voice on an umlaut "u" sound. Be sure that the singer keeps enough "i" in the sound while rounding to the "u" shape. Connect as high as possible in full voice. The umlaut "u" will protect the throat and keep the tongue from pulling back. If the singer is a baritone, he will connect only to the high A, possibly up to B-flat. However, the voice will not flip into the mechanism that adds the B-natural or high C because it does not exist. This makes it impossible for the singer to train as a tenor. If the singer flips into the high B-natural or high C or even higher, usually they are indeed a true tenor.

From what I understand....

However, the voice will not flip into the mechanism that adds the B-natural or high C because it does not exist. This makes it impossible for the singer to train as a tenor.

this is total BS. The timbre may not be suitable/would be the limiting factor, but not this mysterious missing mechanism.

But, on the other hand, I would also totally agree with Alderate's assertion that...regardless of musical genre...certain voices are WAY BIGGER than other voices. Isn't that a simple observable fact? I mean, listen to Chris Cornell next to Michael Jackson.

Chris:

Michael:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PAJqgeeJf4

Obviously different interpretations and sound colors used...but voice size is fairly apparent(to me.)

Sorry for rambling somewhat...but as I am completely ignorant when it comes to classical voice(and vocal fach for sure)...I'm very interested in these discussions.

[aldertate]

the things is you cant compare volume from a recorded clip... you just cant, size of voice and what not, operatic singer sing with a more dopey soundcolor sure they will sound bigger, but that is NOT an indication on how powerfull the singer is or what db he is singing...

Then you can discuss how much you want...

Lirico-Leggero tenor

The male equivalent of a lyric coloratura, this voice is a light lyric instrument, is very agile and is able to perform difficult passages of fioritura. The Lirico-Leggero tenor has a range of approximately the C one octave below middle C (C3) to the F above tenor C (F5), with some leggero tenors being able to sing G5 and even higher while maintaining great quality to the sound. Similarly, the lirico-leggero may be able to sing a little lower than the C3. The voice is the highest operatic tenor voice and is sometimes referred to as "tenore di grazia". This voice is utilized frequently in the operas of Mozart, Rossini, Donizetti and the highest Baroque repertoire for tenors.

Lirico-Leggero Tenor Roles In Opera & Operettas:[2]

* Count Almaviva, Il Barbière di Siviglia (Rossini)

* Belmonte, The Abduction from the Seraglio (Mozart)

* Ernesto, Don Pasquale (Donizetti)

* Ferrando, Così Fan Tutte (Mozart)

* Lindoro, L'Italiana in Algeri (Rossini)

* Don Ottavio, Don Giovanni (Mozart)

* Don Ramiro, La Cenerentola (Rossini)

* Tonio, La Fille du Régiment (Donizetti)

Lyric tenor

A warm graceful voice with a bright, full timbre that is strong but not heavy and can be heard over an orchestra. Lyric tenors have a range from approximately the C one octave below middle C (C3) to the D one octave above middle C (D5)with some able to sing up to Eâ™­5 and higher. Similarly, their lower range may extend a few notes below the C3. There are many vocal shades to the lyric tenor group, repertoire should be selected according to the weight, colors, and abilities of the voice.

Lyric Tenor Roles In Opera & Operettas:[2]

* Alfredo, La Traviata (Verdi)

* Arturo, I Puritani (Bellini)

* Chevalier, Dialogues des Carmélites (Poulenc)

* David, Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg (Wagner)

* Duke of Mantua, Rigoletto (Verdi)

* Edgardo, Lucia di Lammermoor (Donizetti)

* Elvino, La Sonnambula (Bellini)

* Faust, Faust (Gounod)

* Hoffmann, The Tales of Hoffmann (Offenbach)

* Idomeneo, Idomeneo (Mozart)

Now.. do you notice anything between these two voice types? Notice the mention in the lyric of 'can be heard over an orchestra'? There's a reason it's there.

No offense, but it's beyond stupid that we're having this conversation.

The key to singing well is knowing your instrument, it's strengths and limitations.

Farnham's a leggero.. he is what he is.. he's utilizing his strengths (ie singing the Eb5, which few lyrics have (Bjorling did! haha) while allowing the mic to compensate for his lack of size.

But in the context of pop music size doesn't matter, as the technology evens out the playing field. What matters is his ability to sing those notes well. He does a fine job... for a tiny voice hahaha (Just had to add that) hahaha

Have a good one! lmao

[Jens]

Firstoff he does not sing opera and therefor fach isnt as relevant... I belive fach is useless for modern vocalists as they sing with other sounds than the operasingers.

Now farnham is a tenor im not gonna argue with that, but still you cant hear how loud he is, sure you can guess his fach but still you wont by that recording hear how loud his voice is acousticly

Kindo useless to put someone in a fach just by listening on one recording... You can guess his fach sure, but thats it guess...

[aldertate]

Sucks that this discussion is turning somewhat sour because I'm fascinated by this. Namely, the concept(in pop music) that vocal fach has NO bearing or merit for discussion. I think this is crazy. I mean, it's obvious that any sized voice(if healthy) can enjoy a full connected range with all sound colors. And I would thank modern vocal approaches for that...the idea that a baritone or bass is not limited by the size of their voice.

Check out this link for an example of what I'm talking about: http://www.voiceteacher.com/vocal_fach.html

He states:

From what I understand....

this is total BS. The timbre may not be suitable/would be the limiting factor, but not this mysterious missing mechanism.

But, on the other hand, I would also totally agree with Alderate's assertion that...regardless of musical genre...certain voices are WAY BIGGER than other voices. Isn't that a simple observable fact? I mean, listen to Chris Cornell next to Michael Jackson.

Chris:

Michael:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PAJqgeeJf4

Obviously different interpretations and sound colors used...but voice size is fairly apparent(to me.)

Sorry for rambling somewhat...but as I am completely ignorant when it comes to classical voice(and vocal fach for sure)...I'm very interested in these discussions.

The beauty of the pop field is that the size of the voice is secondary to beauty/passion/technique they use.. it's a great field.. I thought my whole 'cause he's using a mic' joke was funny... cause well it's true.. but... I guess I touched a few nerves.

It's just one of my endearing traits hahaha

[Jens]

well if your into rock music you should know that they play often alot higher then 100 db then mic is survival... everysinger needs a mic then...

[aldertate]

Firstoff he does not sing opera and therefor fach isnt as relevant... I belive fach is useless for modern vocalists as they sing with other sounds than the operasingers.

Now farnham is a tenor im not gonna argue with that, but still you cant hear how loud he is, sure you can guess his fach but still you wont by that recording hear how loud his voice is acousticly

Kindo useless to put someone in a fach just by listening on one recording... You can guess his fach sure, but thats it guess...

1) I'm not guessing his fach.. it's obvious. If you can't tell, well that's not my problem.

2) Thinking that fach is useless is just plain ignorant.

3) Based upon his recording I have a very good idea how loud he is. Remember when he put the mic on his forehead and sounded just as loud as when it was in front of his mouth? Why do you think that is? lmao

[Jens]

1) nope it's not your problem...

2) well many people trash their voices due to being put in lables or being heldback by it... So let me say it again Fach is useless for the modern day vocalist.

3) how? did you own a similar pa and could magicly see how much gain was on? You have a very good idea, but you still cant know... soundcolor and volume is not the same...

[jonpall]

aldertate, I think Jens is asking for a more accurate description from you about how you know how loud he is, than simply "it's obvious". Maybe you could enlighten the crowd here.