Rafael Pashamov Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 So I talked with a friend of mine who is a professional singer and to be honest, he is one of the people that I owe my obsession to singing! He is an incredible artist and singer! Here is him singing, he is one of the best voices I have ever heard in my life. After talking to him for a while, he explained to me that he was a baritone when started singing (15 years old) and.. some time passed, he was doing lots and lots of FALSETTO exercises, and only falsetto stuff.. now he says that he has no falsetto at ALL! ..and that his voice is somehow connected all the time.. so weird. His speaking voice is quite like mine, but his singing is magnificent. How can that happen? So can falsetto turn into a real voice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 First off, self-described baritones rarely are actual baritones. I am guilty of that, myself. A lot of guys that did not really have the baritone depth and ring and went to falsetto somewhere in the 4th octave (been there, done that) but thought they were baritone because their bottom notes were in the bottom of tenor, which does overlap with part of the baritone range. Your friend's voice doesn't have that baritone depth, as far as my uneducated ear can tell. Our very own Keith has more baritonic depth in his voice than your friend. As for falsetto becoming full voice - in the Frisell system, a tenor and even a baritone, start training in falsetto to get the head voice controls to achieve dominance. Later, chest-like volume is added. It is noted that falsetto is a sound quality lacking sharp resonance. So, what your friend learned to do was to resonate better. And that he was likely an untrained tenor at 15, rather than the baritone he imagined himself to be. For, with a few exceptions, there are a number of guys who claimed they were baritones who changed their ranges and I just about never hear their baritone offerings. Whereas I had posted a song that I thought had some baritonic sound mainly because it felt rumbly in my throat, only to have a true expert say, well, no, not really any baritone there. Just doesn't have that baritonic ring and depth. It was quite enlightening. And don't worry, your friend still has some falsetto. At least, I could hear some. Notice how I am specifically NOT saying that a baritone cannot sing a note in the tenor range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Why is falsetto wimpy? Sounds like a mental thing. Of course, I could be self serving asking that question, since I can do falsetto, just in case anyone wanted to bust my chops about that. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Pashamov Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 First off, self-described baritones rarely are actual baritones. I am guilty of that, myself. A lot of guys that did not really have the baritone depth and ring and went to falsetto somewhere in the 4th octave (been there, done that) but thought they were baritone because their bottom notes were in the bottom of tenor, which does overlap with part of the baritone range. Your friend's voice doesn't have that baritone depth, as far as my uneducated ear can tell. Our very own Keith has more baritonic depth in his voice than your friend. As for falsetto becoming full voice - in the Frisell system, a tenor and even a baritone, start training in falsetto to get the head voice controls to achieve dominance. Later, chest-like volume is added. It is noted that falsetto is a sound quality lacking sharp resonance. So, what your friend learned to do was to resonate better. And that he was likely an untrained tenor at 15, rather than the baritone he imagined himself to be. For, with a few exceptions, there are a number of guys who claimed they were baritones who changed their ranges and I just about never hear their baritone offerings. Whereas I had posted a song that I thought had some baritonic sound mainly because it felt rumbly in my throat, only to have a true expert say, well, no, not really any baritone there. Just doesn't have that baritonic ring and depth. It was quite enlightening. And don't worry, your friend still has some falsetto. At least, I could hear some. Notice how I am specifically NOT saying that a baritone cannot sing a note in the tenor range. Of course it does not have the baritone depth he is fu*king high pitched haha.. but he says he used to be singing Elvis Presley's Cant help falling in love and stuff.. in the original key really deep and powerful. Its just the falsetto and maybe his voice.. maturing? maybe when he was 15-16 his voice was kind of changing and .. the falsetto singing did the trick for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Amen, brother Owen. Though I fear not the falsetto. I embrace it at times, mainly for an emotional effect. But, not, as a rule, in my singing. Pedal to the metal, peel the paint off the walls. I've never met an A5 that I did not use as a sonic weapon. Singing, someone's gonna get hurt... Rafael - baritone is not just a range of notes but a sound quality, at least as far as I now. For example, c3 through c4 is in the tenor range. It is also in the baritone range. And just because a person can sing from c3 to c4 does not make them a baritone. Sorry to hurt your feelings or that of your friend. Is there a sound file or a video of him singing some baritone stuff as a baritone? For example, and I know I have mentioned him in other threads, so call it a running theme, Scott Stapp is a baritone and even describes himself as one. Does your friend have anything like "Higher" to share that would show that he was a baritone? (ducking assorted fruits and vegetables ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The thing is, you only have one voice. That voice includes falsetto, the muscles dominant in falsetto is however needed for highnotes. It's nothing strange, take à falsetto learn to close the folds, and if trained for some time you Will be able to add depth and power into the sound. this for example, just one of the ways this is used.(then you can argue if the sounds he's making is falsetto or not, but since he has closure and depth) however i belive his topvoice is built from à falsettotype vocalisation. Www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=pvLvQwXtthY The metal and powermetalworld is also littered with this, most good "rocktenors" are fully connected through all their sounds. From the softest falsetto whimp to the most thounderous chesty belts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Man, I thought i had a girly voice but that guy beats the tar out of me. I sound kinda macho compared to him. I don't hear much mix, which may not be the point, here. He has a light baritone in the low stuff, and a small falsetto in the high stuff. Thanks for sharing that, Jens. Is it fair to note that he is prettier than Ellen DeGeneres? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Pashamov Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 The thing is, you only have one voice. That voice includes falsetto, the muscles dominant in falsetto is however needed for highnotes. It's nothing strange, take à falsetto learn to close the folds, and if trained for some time you Will be able to add depth and power into the sound. this for example, just one of the ways this is used.(then you can argue if the sounds he's making is falsetto or not, but since he has closure and depth) however i belive his topvoice is built from à falsettotype vocalisation. Www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=pvLvQwXtthY The metal and powermetalworld is also littered with this, most good "rocktenors" are fully connected through all their sounds. From the softest falsetto whimp to the most thounderous chesty belts Wow that is really great. I can sing in falsetto or mix.. like Nick, actually with a very strong and powerful voice, but I would not like to sing like a woman in front of people, let the counter tenors do it haha. So.. I heard lot's of Nicks recordings, I think he is an awesome baritone? Is he not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 His question is can FALSETTO turn into full-voice? I don't feel qualified to answer but I would say yes it can. Now the exact steps to make that happen I am not sure. Hopefully someone can help answer his question :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Wow that is really great. I can sing in falsetto or mix.. like Nick, actually with a very strong and powerful voice, but I would not like to sing like a woman in front of people, let the counter tenors do it haha. So, what do you have against countertenors? According to his own words in the memoirs "Shut Up and Give me the Mic," Dee Snider studied classical singing in high school and graduated as a classically trained countertenor. (I read way too much. It's an addiction. A gift and a curse.) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielformica Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hey guys speaking from experience with this and the fact that I practice falsetto everyday what I can tell you is it comes down to intensity of the sound. If I take a Bb4 (the Bb a full step below high c) and sing it softly with not much intensity it will be in falsetto however as I crescendo ( get gradually louder) or for you guys that need the fancy words(messa di voce) and my intensity gets stronger and louder without changing my placement or grabbing it turns into fullvoice. Something I always say is when I'm singing and trying to get a certain phrase that's high I sing it in falsetto first then I (mentally) drop my fullvoice where my falsetto is without overblowing or grabbing or over compressing. I just drop my speech on pitch. Hope that helps:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielformica Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Let me know if you want me to show you how I do this Owen I would be happy to help you with this. It's one thing to look for definitions on the Internet it's another to physically give an example and explain what's happening. Hit me up anytime.. Let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoney Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 So can falsetto turn into a real voice? Contrary to popular belief, falsetto is not imaginary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielformica Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well sorry for offending you Owen. It sounded like you we're confused so my bad. And Geran I am definitely in falsetto when I begin my crescendo but you could call it anything that makes you feel comfortable. I like falsetto because its where I sing prince and EWF and songs when I let go to falsetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielformica Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 So I talked with a friend of mine who is a professional singer and to be honest, he is one of the people that I owe my obsession to singing! He is an incredible artist and singer! Here is him singing, he is one of the best voices I have ever heard in my life. After talking to him for a while, he explained to me that he was a baritone when started singing (15 years old) and.. some time passed, he was doing lots and lots of FALSETTO exercises, and only falsetto stuff.. now he says that he has no falsetto at ALL! ..and that his voice is somehow connected all the time.. so weird. His speaking voice is quite like mine, but his singing is magnificent. How can that happen? So can falsetto turn into a real voice? An to direct my answer to you. You're friend is right on the money. Some singers find their fullvoice this way. It works for some and some have a harder time but there is no denying the skill your friend has. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It does not become. But its usefull for trainning. How its used is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakin Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Just to chime in. In the book "The Tenor Voice" by Anthony Frisell it is discussed that falsetto is a good starting point to develop proper head voice. He also says that the student must take care to preserve his falsetto or he might be unable to use it, unless it is re-trained. So if his observation is correct, for some it might seem as if falsetto become full voice (or at least full strong head voice) and falsetto is no longer accessible, while really the student just discover something else and looses falsetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggplantbren Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I would call anything that has metal full voice. Don't sopranos usually sing their high notes in neutral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 folks, let's not forget that falsetto phonation can occur anywhere in the voice, including the low and middle ranges too. to me, i agree with dan, if you can sustain a pitch anywhere in your range for more than roughly 10 seconds or more without deflating quickly you sent air pressure that's balanced with adducted vocal folds, you sang that note full voice whether it's super light or heavy....it's a connected tone. messa di voce is the test of that ability. and owen, i work frisell's descending head voice slides every day....i have most definitely gained strength in the head voice musculature. however, you eventually have to do the hard work to merge in the chest voice musculature. a lot of folks don't agree with me, and that's okay, but in my opinion, you really have to (at times) lean in on the voice. you mentally isolate the vocal folds, and you attempt to go from a light connected tone, and swell the folds to produce a stronger, louder tone. you have to support well which helps loosen the musculature you don't want involved so the folds are isolated and you can work them. the unique thing about the folds: they can't handle too much air velocity very well or hard knocks, but they can handle applied pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny82 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 So trying to clear up some confusion. The problem is that the term 'falsetto' is used in several ways. In scientific terms falsetto (M2) is defined by the amount of mass that is used. If the mass you use is small enough that only the edges of the folds are vibrating, it is called falsetto. In teaching the definition of falsetto often includes the elements 'airy' or 'unconnected', which makes it a different definition. Either way. Of course falsetto can't turn into full voice by some magic going on. It turns into full voice by some action the singer has to learn. In the first definition this action is that of 'adding mass', in the second definition it is the action of 'adducting the vocal folds'. Of course there are some limits in terms of range where 'adding mass' for example is not an option anymore. The reason why falsetto is often used to 'find the headvoice' is the resonant placement. Falsetto 'sits' in the same place resonant wise as a 'full voice with head resonance'. However, training falsetto will not grant you the ability to adduct the vocal folds or to add mass, which both are crucial for singing in full voice. So you can't really say that falsetto 'turns into full voice'. It is just a tool to find the resonant placement in the higher parts of your voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I think you just have to overlap falsetto and modal until something dope hits you :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I hate the term fullvoice... It's used on basicly any sound, our acoustic expectations does not match up with the scientific explenations. Thus we have à term thats completely useless. Why use à term that can be used on so many diffrent types of sounds and coordinations? It's easyer to replace the term fullvoice with just "voice" Www.youtube.com/watch?v=pppo6gxLur4 "fullvoice" Www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPlmEHo9QQ "fullvoice" Www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DCgTTeqFa4 "fullvoice Www.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=VATmgtmR5o4 "fullvoice" Www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcjCztvn70 "fullvoice" Yey just because it has adduction lets Call it fullvoice! we are using this term to group every sound the human can make under one banner! Besides falsetto,we hate falsetto. FULLVOICE! - But Wait a minute here, some of these clips dont sound full and some sounds like falsetto... -They are NOT falsetto, FULLVOICE... Falsettos more airy like huuhuuu - But the Tim storm clips, you sure thats full? Sounds like à gurgle to me? -No it's still FULLVOICE! -But comeon, Pavarotti is in there you are saying he's using the same as the other? Seriously -Yes also fullvoice. - But man many of these sounds dont sound full at all, and i bet Pavarotti if he wanted to could sing abit more powerfull and bigger if he decided to, doesnt Full mean that something is maxed out? - No it's still FULLVOICE! -why? -because the folds adduct - but they do that on 99% of the sounds à human can make, doesnt that make the term kindo stupid? -... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 modal voice then Jens, better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yes i think it's a better term, atleast it's used diffrently and in a better(more specific) way(wich is what counts) ive heard the term fullvoice being used on all sounds and i mean all sounds. Edit: and stop with those hammer on the nail,straight tothe point oneliners makes you look to cool ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggplantbren Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Nice split in the voice there geran89. I'd never heard that before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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