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reading the cvt book

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So, I trained a little bit with intrinsic anchoring today and it seems to me that intrinsic anchoring is quite similar to "the hold". It involves pushing the tip of your tongue against your lower front teeth while also lowering your jaw.

Just try to sing an 'eh' or 'uh' in that position and you will notice that it almost automatically induces a gentle form of "the hold", which just isn't as intense as if you would do it thinking about "lifting something heavy".

So here is my current summary:

- He uses basically overdrive/edge vowels

- He uses a gentle form of "the hold"

- He uses a lot of twang (edge-like)

- But he also uses a lot of larynx dampening (neutral-like)

So maybe we could say he uses neutral-like curbing on overdrive vowels with edge-resonance :P

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well if i could return to my cvt book reading update...i finished the chapter on neutral/neutral w/air...obey the volume limits except for the high part of the voice. there's no metal in the notes. i definitely don't sing in neutral too often.

makes perfect sense to me.

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The Tvs bridge is Overdrive to MLN in CVT terms, however this isnt set in stone and has alot to do with the influences the singer has.

Thats why if you listen to robs clients And teachers you will find curbers ect.

For instance https://dl.boxcloud.com/bc/1/fbd45ffbb62fab80e0ee31d9557261e7/JolueqOGpciD6dgYhecNBoVpYxkvmYe1ZLheZor6BF4DUBIelMQTkFwYIys3nIibNIIEHUp447tBZLaXDzIbNQ,,/4a5895e0af8de5890bc5cc0bd9cf0cdb/

Now he's not centering on CVT's preferred curbingvowels but it's still curbing since it has both hold and is littered with the moaning quality that i atleast connect with curbing.

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well if i could return to my cvt book reading update...i finished the chapter on neutral/neutral w/air...obey the volume limits except for the high part of the voice. there's no metal in the notes. i definitely don't sing in neutral too often.

makes perfect sense to me.

Cool Bob. :-) Yeah, once you know what all the lingo means it's actually very straightforward.

I used to think I didn't want/need neutral because it's "soft". But now I like to (if it suits the song) start in neutral. Makes the metallic modes feel more intense when you bring them in.

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Ok, I think the overdrive part is quite clear now. For the higher range I still have a question: If you are in the 'edge' mode in CVT terms and then use larynx dampening so much that you dampen away the characteristic 'twang sound', would it still be edge? or would it then be MLN?

Or to put it in other words: What is the difference between metal-like neutral and neutral-like metal.

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I too have just bought the CVT book. I liked the idea of classifying different sounds into modes and was hoping to find some new things to pass on to my students. After reading most of it I find it a bit confusing if i'm honest! The bit I don't understand is if it doesn't work straight away then your doing it wrong, my personal opinion is that it takes more muscle building and control and practice than that. Maybe i have got that part wrong. The other thing was that so far I can see they don't favour the lowered larynx position, which has been one of my most favourable techniques. I'm not sold on it yet but will come back to it and continue to read more.

By the way bob, I was watching a Ken Tamplin video of a foreigner song and at the beginning he says 'this is dedicated to one of my students bob who is a massive Lou Gramm fan' Is that just co-incidence or is he talking about you!!!?

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I too have just bought the CVT book. I liked the idea of classifying different sounds into modes and was hoping to find some new things to pass on to my students. After reading most of it I find it a bit confusing if i'm honest! The bit I don't understand is if it doesn't work straight away then your doing it wrong, my personal opinion is that it takes more muscle building and control and practice than that. Maybe i have got that part wrong. The other thing was that so far I can see they don't favour the lowered larynx position, which has been one of my most favourable techniques. I'm not sold on it yet but will come back to it and continue to read more.

By the way bob, I was watching a Ken Tamplin video of a foreigner song and at the beginning he says 'this is dedicated to one of my students bob who is a massive Lou Gramm fan' Is that just co-incidence or is he talking about you!!!?

yes gina, that's me..i'm a huge fan of his vocals..i get around...lol!!!

please keep us posted as you react to the cvt read. i like what the author says, but to me if were a beginner reading that book for the first time, i'd be overwhelmed.

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I only have access to the first edition. Does this latest edition have a better way of explaining how to achieve the different modes. Or is it basically the same as the first?

As Gina said they claim the modes should work the first time or you are doing something wrong.

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It's easiest to get creaking between curbing and overdrive. That should only be done on purpose and sometimes, otherwise it could be risky.

Neutral is a very forgiving mode and you can usually go anywhere in-between neutral and the metallic modes without problems. That's what MLN is -- it's neutral but dragged towards edge. They now call it edge-like neutral I believe, in recognition of the fact that neutral can also be made to resemble curbing and overdrive. My personal (possibly wrong) interpretation of TVS head voice in CVT terms is that it is mostly edge-like and overdrive-like neutral. The larynx dampening and so on seems to be more related to getting a desired soundcolor.

With regard to exercises working right away, I believe this is correct. If you try to do something and fail, it's because you didn't do the correct thing, not because your muscles weren't strong enough. Singing practice is about building muscle memory, not muscles (unless you're really out of shape, old or sick).

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I've heard that overdrive should not be used above a certain note. Could you tell me what that note is in american notation? For me E4 is the smallest string on a guitar. This has confused me for awhile.

Thanks.

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I've heard that overdrive should not be used above a certain note. Could you tell me what that note is in american notation? For me E4 is the smallest string on a guitar. This has confused me for awhile.

Thanks.

For a male: the high C, C5, the 8th fret on the high E string.

For a female: One tone above the male high C, D5, the tenth fret on the high E string. i.e. nowhere near the female high C. Apparently Eb5 is doable but only try it if you reallly need it.

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You know it's interesting CVT mentions this creaking between modes so often...isn't that only true if you don't train to fix it? Also relating it to CVT's belief that the mode should basically work instantly. Maybe part of what makes TVS hard to fit into CVT terminology is that it is between modes. Though it absolutely does not come instantly, it does come...you just have to really work and train hard for it.

So, just to clarify, you're saying that CVT says MLN is okay and NLM (or whatever it would be called) is okay but an even balance of neutral and metal will create creaking?

Sounds just like something you could fix over time by gradually training the MLN closer to NLM and the NLM closer to MLN, no? Not by trying to get an even balance of metal and neutral from day one, but gradually inching your way to that point. Isn't that kind of what vocal training is all about?

Sorry if NLM is not a term...but same with like say curbing-like overdrive and overdrive-like curbing. Going right in between overdrive and curbing won't work the first time but you could train yourself to get good at it, couldn't you? What doesn't CVT acknowledge that? Why do they instead tell their students not to stray too far from the modes, ever?

Sorry if I misinterpreted anything, for the millionth time, I do not own the CVT book.

While CVT doesn't mention bridging as such, it has guides for navigating between the modes. Mostly it has to do with good volume levels and good vowels. It has practices etc. If it always sound funky between modes, they would not have attempted that. They don't say you can navigate between them at all volumes and all vowels though; you could end up creaking etc or in something else. But then they say that you can't sing in all modes on all vowels at all pitches either...

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Well let me simplify, since you dont own the book it's very hard to explain. The CVT terminology is really good, not magic but well put together.

Basicly the system makes a pitch at describing all sounds, wich is very hard. They split the voice into four modes

Simplified

Overdrive(shout quality)

Curbing(moan quality)

Edge(whine,whiny quality)

Neutral(soft,relaxed quality)

They set up general rules for you to maintain each quality of the voice

And how to color it for desired effect.

They alsoteach how to add effects to the voice ect.

They teach the students not to stray away from the modes as it takes alot more support and energy. They never say the students never should stray away from the modes, rather " if you stray away, this will happen and you have to do this"

They even tell trained singers verywell can sing in "greyzones" with great effect

TVS is perfectly well described within the CVT terminology, but you need to have the book and learn to spot the diffrent "modes"

CVT isnt inventing the wheel they are mainly describing what is already there but with a language that is new. To clarify im NOT a CVT student, I actualy haven had much success with the CVT exercises(and i have not had a cvt teacher) still iknow the terminology as it is used alot here in sweden.

An example of creaking and singng inbetween modes would be: using TVS terminology

Use M1(chest) belt on a D4, belt to someone on the street "hey" and hold it out

Now switch the vowel to ih and hold that out

Makes sense?

D4 powered belt " Heeeeeeeeeeee ihhhhhhhhhh" keeping the same loud volume on the heee as on the ihhh, creakng will appear amd your according to cvt terminology inbetween modes.

Makes any sense?

Cheers

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Hey could someone tell me if this is Edge: https://www.box.com/s/nwt3i8r9qstfdx8gq52b

For some reason I cannot Edge past like E5, what am I doing wrong? Here's another clip that's higher: https://www.box.com/s/e5ayrstm5xce6kkfohy0

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yep, that is metal-like neutral, or fake edge, neutral with twang :P

Sooooo..... is the main thing separating my MLN from actual Edge not enough support/power/volume?? That seems to be what I've gotten out of reading the section on the various [insert mode here]-like neutral...

Admittedly, as I've stated above I come from a TVS background so I'm sure I naturally gravitate towards Neutral in my upper range.

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So really focus on each note being louder and full of power, correct? I can sing in edge quite well at C4-E4 etc, but I guess I'm not taking my time:rolleyes:

I'm going to have to go over curbing to make sure I'm not in Curbing-like neutral, but I am pretty sure I got Overdrive. That is enough on the "Extreme power/loudness end" for me to practice with a TON of support.

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If you sing "light" you'll probably be in neutral. Edge is loud. On lower pitches it's at least medium volume. I'd suggest not starting softly, but do make sure it feels comfortable.

well ok I actually plan on not necesarrily softly, but defintely playing with my support on each note.

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Ok. That's definitely a good idea. :) I just realised you may have meant light as opposed to dark, rather than as opposed to heavy. If that's the case then go for it. Light soundcolor helps a lot in edge (it's pretty hard to even do edge with dark soundcolor).

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