ever realize this?

[VideoHere]

hey folks,

did you ever stop to realize how little we are able to find out about a particularly great singer, let's say a rock singer, like a paul rodgers or any exceptional voice in the rock genre?

you never see published or easily accesible imformation about their vocal training (if any).... something like "robert plant studied with these teachers, for this amount of time. After developing his full voice etc. plant's favorite vocal exercises consist of ".....after signing with atlantic, he was assigned vocal coach ....

it's always kind of "hidden" or never brought up....something to think about.

i once (because his web site at the time said "got a question? email lou.") emailed lou gramm and after the compliments were over i went for it.....i respectfuly asked if he wouldn't mind sharing any vocal tips, if he could recommend a voice teacher or books to help me. i was in a big "emulation mode" at the time...lol.

i never expected to hear back, but i did from his brother ben. he said "lou as always had the high notes, always had that voice you are so in awe of. and he thanks you deeply for your respect for it.

i will say the only vocal training lou has had, was to help him with endurance. that's about it

to this i say. "really?" "i don't think so."...somebody did something, somehow, someway, to have him sing like he did on foreigner 4 (lol)

[joshual]

the "he thanks you deeply for your respect for it." sounds to me like " mind your business" lol

I realize that with all the singers i love.

Each time somebody ask the question about vocal tips or techniques, they always answer things like " Sing from your heart is the mort important" or " The technique is not important, only the soul is" etc.

My god, Richie Kotzen lol, was asked for that question in an interview and he said

" I WENT TO A VOCAL COACH A FEW TIMES BECAUSE I HAD A PROBLEM SINGING BUT THEY WERE NOT VOCAL LESSONS.... I ENDED UP HAVING 2 SURGERYS ON MY THROAT FOR NODES THEN I FIGURED I WAS DOING SOMETHING WRONG... THE COACH HELPED ME CHANGE THE WAY I SANG WITHOUT CHANGING MY SOUND... " .

He just don't answer the question lol. When you have nodes, you have a wrong technique, so the coach is here to give you exercices to have a better technique...so it's singing lessons...

It's because as an artist you have to show/sell the magic, not the tricks to do the magic. From my musician point of view, i prefer the world of guitar for that, so many great players that have done educational videos....

[Snorth]

I concur. I don't get why artists are so afraid of revealing that they have had vocal training. I even read in the CVT book that some of Catherine Sadolin's students have said in interviews that they've not had any training, and then they apologised to her in private. ;P

[Steven Fraser]

I concur. I don't get why artists are so afraid of revealing that they have had vocal training. I even read in the CVT book that some of Catherine Sadolin's students have said in interviews that they've not had any training, and then they apologised to her in private. ;P

Snorth: I think genre is an influence here. In the classical-singing world, part of the 'street cred' of a singer is the list of teachers with whom they have studied.

In direct answer, singing artists may have arrived at their approach to vocal function and expression by a completely non-cognitive path. They may sing extraordinarily well, but have only vague ideas about 'how' they do it. I'd expect singers who respond with the 'do it with soul' , or 'make the emotionalal connection to the audience' to be of that type, as their vocal function was arrived at through an indirect path, not deliberate technique. These are what we have always called the 'natural-born' singers. What we mean when we say this is that, for this small number of people, their way of singing was arrived at without deliberate study... they are intuitive learners.

Most of us are not so lucky, or, we'd like to learn songs that have a specific aesthetic and value system attached, i.e., rock, death metal, jazz, grunge, opera, classical art song, etc. The vast majority of voice students are not intuitive learners, their brains are set up to work differently, more or less. Though I am somewhat intuitive, I am certainly in this non-intuitive group when it comes to singing. In fact, my intuition (and youthful exuberance) lead me down the wrong path of vocal function for many years. It was only when I started working with teachers who understood vocal function on a physical level that I began to shed the bad habits, a process that is still ongoing.

As to the hesitancy of some singers to credit their teachers... this is just professional immaturity, a sham, or poorly-thought-out PR. Did anyone slam Michael Jackson for studying with Seth Riggs for years? Nope. At some point, its about the ART you are making, and not about the path taken to get you there.

[VideoHere]

steve, you are right, but here's what i'm saying...we (the general public) know that opera singers are in a class by themselves and have had extensive vocal training.

but when it comes to a genre like rock, we don't really know which rock vocalists had training or not, and i would love to know for a myriad or reasons.

i would say a guy like steve perry with his effortless dynamics most likely did a lot with messa de voce, and if i'm wrong and he had no training at all, i'd love to know that too. i guess it's just blatant curiousity but you really in most cases cannot find that out....

i think the recording studios restrict that info intentionlly to boost the perception of rare talent/one-of-a-kind thinking of singers (or all musicians)......truth is there are lot of "steve perrys" out there, but this one was catapaulted to fame.

take guys like .steve walsh, paul rodgers......something helped them with that powerful vocal ability and range..

boy, i'll bet there's a lot of us who would like to sit down next to them and chat vocals...

i'd love to write a book on the subject but i'll bet a lot of vocalists would be less than willing to provide training specifics.

i was (once) one of those intuitive rock singers.. i could hit a note by just sheer energy never knowing what the hell i was doing. i was completely unaware of twang, and power pushing, larynx adjustments...etc.

but as i realized there were songs i thought i could sing, but i couldn't sing, i started to search out why?

i wanted to go to to the next level. the next future goal for me is bel canto!!!!

[Steven Fraser]

...but when it comes to a genre like rock, we don't really know which rock vocalists had training or not, and i would love to know for a myriad or reasons.

i would say a guy like steve perry with his effortless dynamics most likely did a lot with messa de voce, and if i'm wrong and he had no training at all, i'd love to know that too. i guess it's just blatant curiousity but you really in most cases cannot find that out....

VIDEOHERE: Hmmm. Perhaps TMV could structure some interviews, for example, like Jerome Hines did in the Mid-90s amongst the best opera singers of the time. Tentative title: Rockers on Rockin' Vocals :-)

Who else besides Steve Perry would you like to see interviewed?

BTW, I think I will reach out to Robert Lunte on this idea, and get his recommendation about how to proceed.

[VideoHere]

VIDEOHERE: Hmmm. Perhaps TMV could structure some interviews, for example, like Jerome Hines did in the Mid-90s amongst the best opera singers of the time. Tentative title: Rockers on Rockin' Vocals :-)

Who else besides Steve Perry would you like to see interviewed?

BTW, I think I will reach out to Robert Lunte on this idea, and get his recommendation about how to proceed.

steve, that would be awesome!!! boy, where do i begin? or better yet, perhaps we should do a poll of who most folks would want to learn from? then the question becomes do they want to divulge those "secrets" i.e. does steve perry want to tell us?

it's funny...i was just in a karaoke contest recently and i was in awe of this one guy's singing so i went over to him and i delicately asked a couple of questions about his obvious technique and polish.....he became very defensive when i asked about his vocal training....he said he didn't have any vocal training at all, but as time went on, (and admittedly with a little prodding on my part) he began to dribble out all of the very familiar exercises, and training he "had" for so many years......the next thing i knew he was complimenting me and telling me in detail how i could have sung my song better. i don't know if his comments were helpful or retaliatory (lol)

[Steven Fraser]

it's funny...i was just in a karaoke contest recently and i was in awe of this one guy's singing so i went over to him and i delicately asked a couple of questions about his obvious technique and polish.....he became very defensive when i asked about his vocal training....he said he didn't have any vocal training at all, but as time went on, (and admittedly with a little prodding on my part) he began to dribble out all of the very familiar exercises, and training he "had" for so many years......the next thing i knew he was complimenting me and telling me in detail how i could have sung my song better. i don't know if his comments were helpful or retaliatory (lol)

Videohere: Its all in how you approach it. In a Karaoke context, IMO best to begin with expressions of enjoyment... how much you liked it, 'nailed' the riffs, etc... whatever you admired. Be honest, and energetically genuine, and you will be on the right track.

The key to these discussions is not to ask how they learned it, or from whom, but how they approached accomplishing a particular thing. For example, you'll get a defensive reaction if you ask ... 'who taught you how to scream so great?" Whereas, 'how did you make that awesome scream', or 'how do you mentally approach the screams' will get a completely different responses. Those questions will provoke a vocal technique, or a mental attitude-oriented response.

As to comments by others, I've found it always useful to be a gracious recipient of whatever the commenter was trying to communicate, even if it was delivered awkwardly, in completely useless language... whatever. I don't believe its the artist's role to 'make somebody wrong' about what they experienced in a performance. Its completely, internally real to the other person, and they may have limited vocabulary to articulate this inner reality. So, when they say 'such and such was so great', and I know it was not my best that time, I always say 'thanks! I am glad you enjoyed that so much!' I appreciate you telling me.

I pinged Robert on the idea of the artist interviews, and he is swamped right now. He likes the idea, though, and suggested that we could use the same mechanisms that we use with the 'Influential leaders...' series. All we really need is a good interview script, some contacts, and away we go.

[jonpall]

I recall Jamie Vendera having a series of interviews just like that that with various singers on some website but I forgot the link :(

[VideoHere]

thanks as always `steve...always!!!! appreciated

[kalapoka]

This is SO true. Information on voice and voice lessons are really difficult to find over the net. Compared to guitar lessons, of which there are abundant sources, Vocal lessons are far and few in between. The scene is changing a bit ... but rather slowly. More and more singers should share their knowledge with people, it doesn't hurt anybody and infact benefits both the singer and the people who want to learn.

Fahim