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VOWEL MODIFICATION COMBINATIONS THAT ARE POWERFUL?

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Robert Lunte

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for the contract and release, the contraction occurs within the closed embouchure, you basically engage the full intrinsic anchoring set within that. And then release. I'm not sure what Rob does with the jaw, I never attempted to manipulate it personally.

The contract and release is cool...on an "eh" vowel, I find it's great for getting belty placements and figuring out and challenging how loud your head voice can actually go. Not sure about how it responds with closed vowels. To me that would sound like a really constricted combo so if Rob suggests it I'm guessing the constriction doesn't matter since you're just building strength anyways???

EXACTLY. It is the full engagement of the intrinsic anchoring set inside a closed embouchure. Metaphorically, you can think of it like a long bow, pulled with potential energy, but not yet released.

Owen, you can release into any vowel and experience the benefits that vowel will give you. With C&R onsets, I like to release into a narrowed 'uh' for the resistance, your right in that observation as well. It gets the lactic acid pumped up. I engages some musculature that feels heavy for a moment. The C&R onset is not used in singing, its just too bulky. It is the "squats" of the onsets, it moves bigger musculature around, more extrinsic nearly... if you play with C&R onsets and feel a little bit of burn after about 7-8 minutes, your getting the proper result. Don't pound on C&R onsets for more then may be 20 minutes in the beginning for sure.

I actually learn about my own pedagogy in some ways, by reading Owen's posts... this is great.

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"the contraction occurs within the closed embouchure, you basically engage the full intrinsic anchoring set."

english translation?

Bob, inside a closed embourchure, you; compress twang, dampen the larynx, possibly leverage the tongue against the back of the bottom teeth, lower the jaw, .. then release into a resistance vowel... or any vowel you want. But if its more narrowed, you can really feel the interarytenoids and TA pulling... builds beef.

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there is a huge benefit to working with the "uh" (book) and not sidestepping the "oo" (clue) vowel....

these are my official "unsung hero" vowel sounds...lol!!!!

aw

uh

and definitely oo

add a "w" "z" "v" "g" "m" "n" to the front of these make for great head voice muscle workouts.

Bob, realize what your suggesting here is "Bob's Specialized Onsets". If you put these consonants in front of a vowel and play around with how they change the configuration of your phonation package.. and feel you are reaping different benefits from different combinations... then you are hitting on one of the fundamental principles of TVS Methodology, ... building the voice strength & coordination with specialized onsets. Nice work Bob... no wonder your getting better... it sounds to me like you would do well training the new TVS onsets...

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Eh > Ih

Eh > Ouh (book)

Seem to be helping me a lot combined with a Hmm-meeeee work flow. It's something you can try right away. It sort of triggers the switch to head voice.

Very similar to Aw Oh Oo scale that "narrowing" feeling.

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Let me know if you are not comprehending what I'm saying here...this is tough to explain to someone who doesn't know formant tuning super well, and I don't know if you do or don't. Regarding formants, you seem to focus less on the theory and more on the experience, which I of course applaud you for, but I have no idea of knowing if you are researching deeper than that. But I think Steve would get what I'm saying, and perhaps rephrase it better than I could. I'd love for him to jump in this thread and suggest something.

Owen, Rob et al:

The perfect mod for a siren can be calculated, but its very individual, and the singer winds up not only doing a pitch glissando (the slide) but also a smooth migration through the vowel series as the pitch slide occurs in both directions. The vowel series also changes as the lower note of the siren moves around. Not impossible, but pretty tricky to get the hang of.

However, something similar has already been worked out, using the chromatic scale, by Prof. Berton Coffin. A physicist by training, he worked out the vowels which had the best formant/harmonic alignments, and included a chart of them in his book 'The Sounds of Singing', designed to be layed vertically in the space in front of the keys on a piano, and slid left or right a bit for the different male and female voice types.

In the chart, Coffin placed phonetic symbols for the 'best', next best, and worst vowels for each note. According to Prof Lloyd Hanson, who studied with Coffin at the University of Colorado while working on his Doctorate, Coffin would have the student sing various scales and intervals using the vowels in the various series, depending on the range. The process helped the student experience what the resonant vowels felt like to do consistently, which lead to a development of resonance awareness overall in the singer.

The chart was immediately accessible by the teacher, and of particular use for solving problems of passaggio negotiation, and for the occasional syllable that was awkwardly set in particular transpositions.

Here is a snip of the chart, which will serve as an example:

On it, the 'green' series contained the optimal, yellow next best, blue 'headier' and red dangerously 'chestier'. The vowel symbols that are included are as follows:

From this second image, you can see the vowel symbols that Coffin used, and word examples which contain the various vowels.

Coffin also measured the formant locations of all of the vowels listed, and published in the chromatic vowel chart a representation of the locations of F1 for each of the vowels in the Front, mid, back and schwa series. The chart is systematically layed out, with a key to orient the reader as to what the various horizontal sections mean.

Its really good stuff.

I hope this is helpful to your discussion.

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On second thought, it is a great chart, but Im not sure it is exactly what I am trying to get to?

Steve, my only concern about this chart is, Im not just looking for the most favorable vowels to modify from. Im also looking for what I would call, 'Resistance Vowels"... "Resistance" in terms of resistance training... vowel combinations that might feel difficult initially, but with time, become coordinated because the musculature has been developed to do it. Im not trying to just get a smooth, pretty bridge... Im trying to activate musculature and continue this process of building beefy musculature that surpasses the norm for M2/head voice. My goal is to continue the work I have started that builds the interarytenoids, TA and other muscles so that notes above E4 sound beefy and belty...

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thank you. i'm curious, does rob advocate doing descending head voice slides for head voice?

Videohere imo the contract & release onset is FAR superior to Frisell's slides. Think about it... essentially what you are doing IS a head voice slide but instead of "pure co-ordination" your goal is to also generate strength or high-energy within the folds.

Basically this is how I do it... and you can see how it is not easy but definitely VERY powerful.

Windy HAW > MMM contraction (at this point we do 3 things... lower larynx, CRY, and place jaw slightly lower and back)

Then open up basically into an EE and I personally switched to and EH vowel and try and get RIGHT into the mix from head voice. The whole time while raising intensity I am thinking about lift up pull back or DRINKING sound.

Robert is absolutely right when he says it's a squat. LOL! I love this exercise, thanks Rob for inventing it.

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On second thought, it is a great chart, but Im not sure it is exactly what I am trying to get to?

Steve, my only concern about this chart is, Im not just looking for the most favorable vowels to modify from. Im also looking for what I would call, 'Resistance Vowels"... "Resistance" in terms of resistance training... vowel combinations that might feel difficult initially, but with time, become coordinated because the musculature has been developed to do it. Im not trying to just get a smooth, pretty bridge... Im trying to activate musculature and continue this process of building beefy musculature that surpasses the norm for M2/head voice. My goal is to continue the work I have started that builds the interarytenoids, TA and other muscles so that notes above E4 sound beefy and belty...

Robert: The best vowels for beefy production are always going to be the ones which are also most resonant. For those, vocal tract inertance is the highest, so the singer is able to 'pour on the coal' when they are used.

The issue is that the range is not 'one size fits all'. The vowel sequence varies by voice type.

If, however, you want the 'next best' vowels, which require firmer technique and musculature, then the 'yellow' ones, and even the 'red' ones would be suited.

It depends on the singer's development which ones are possible.

I hope this is helpful to your discussion.

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Robert: The best vowels for beefy production are always going to be the ones which are also most resonant. For those, vocal tract inertance is the highest, so the singer is able to 'pour on the coal' when they are used.

The issue is that the range is not 'one size fits all'. The vowel sequence varies by voice type.

It depends on the singer's development which ones are possible.

I try to say things like that, Steven, and often find disagreement. I pass through Plano twice a day during the work week (up and down the Sam Rayburn Tollway.) I would hope some of that credibility would rub off on me.

:lol: :lol:

Then, again, averaging 70 mph or better, I may be getting the barest whiff. :lol: :lol:

Man, I am just too funny. As a singer, I am pretty good comedian.

In a number of classical texts I have read, i (ee) is usually the vowel to train a tenor on. It relates to tongue position and channelling resonance. And being kind of closed, it also helps build the cushion and stop over-blowing which might happen if starting on ah or variations of ah in the speaking range or bottom of one's singing range. I think, from personal experience, ah is something more suitable for advanced work.

And, in my personal experience, I have found that I have an easier time with a song if I use vowels suited to my voice, rather than what I hear from the original.

Oddly enough, I am most relaxed on either ee or ah.

Oh well, back to my odd sense of humor ...

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Basically this is how I do it... and you can see how it is not easy but definitely VERY powerful.

Windy HAW > MMM contraction (at this point we do 3 things... lower larynx, CRY, and place jaw slightly lower and back)

Then open up basically into an EE and I personally switched to and EH vowel and try and get RIGHT into the mix from head voice. The whole time while raising intensity I am thinking about lift up pull back or DRINKING sound.

Believe it or not, Jay, not trying to call you out, or anything. But it would be easier to understand what you are saying if you could provide a sound file of this.

Lunte does it all the time. Felipe puts up vids now and then to provide a sound sample of what he is talking about, which usually gets the point across more clearly than whatever software he has to translate Portuguese to English. I can even be talked into providing a sound sample or song to illustrate something. Like the thread Owen had about one voice and asked people to submit a siren that aurally illustrates one's idea of one voice.

It's not that I doubt the validity of what you are saying. I am just having a hard time imagining what it sounds like. And you don't even have to go for a high note. Even though he will go through ascending starting points, Lunte usually starts at G3 and goes to G4, right through his passaggio.

Again, I am not trying to embarrass you or cast doubt upon you. I just want to hear the sound.

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Good point Steve...I think what we're getting at here is, the "resistance vowels" Rob mentions, because they are not as resonant, reduce that inertance, forcing the singer endure more tension and learn the art of maintaining beefy coordinations without the help of resonance.

I could be totally misunderstanding but it sounds like the opposite of singing. A purposefully detuning. Which, I think, goes against my religion. :lol:

I could be wrong. I probably am wrong, just not understanding the words.

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Fascinating... I have experienced that the same vowel modifications at the same time do not necessarily guarantee a perfect result with different vocal tracts. I have not found this to be particularly significant however, just that it does exist. Back to my hypothesis, if I insist that a singer use an "Ih" instead of "Uh", even though it is more clunky to do so, I believe, it will become a "resistance" vowel... and for the purpose of training, will eventually build new musculature and coordinations that will be beneficial to the student.

But perhaps Maestro Fraser answered my question, I just go to these other vowels behind the big scary "red"?

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I would also like to point out that a narrowing a long the vocal tract (like a narrow vowel) will increase the inertance and thereby lower the phonation threshold pressure (PTP). This actually cushions the vocal folds and ease the phonation. So in this regard it does the kind of opposite of overloading.

Interesting, I have experienced the narrowing of "Uh" increase the inertance and make it both amplify, but feel less resistant... HOWEVER, the training that let to the strength and endurance to narrow an UH in the first place, and other vowels... came from "hitting the gym" and lifting the "weights" of the "contract & release", "dampen & release" and "quack & release" onsets.

There is no doubt that 'contract & release' is clunky, that is why it seems to not be practical for singing like wind & release onsets or track & release onsets... but that very clunkiness, is something that has helped me to build new levels of beef in my head voice. These onsets work, I don't even know all the reasons why, but they work. Its like vocal gymnastics... if you bend, contract and manipulate the intrinsic musculature around into exotic positions... with reasonable care and caution of course, ... the body builds muscle memory for it and you get stronger.

Evidence that supports my theory.... I believe that many rock singers such as Jon Bon Jovi, Joe Elliot, DIO, and just about any of these guys... that are on their voices day in, day out... every night touring... are getting a lot of "resistance" and on the job "training". One reason these guys sound so great is not because they are particularly more brilliant or even vastly more gifted then the average gifted student.... but because, they are pounding on their intrinsic musculature so often and so frequently, they just have developed amazing strength and endurance. I believe this one fact explains a LOT of the misunderstandings and confusion that arise around why "x rock star" can and "I can't" from students or people that post on this forum. If you were pounding on your voice in this way, night after night, day after day since you were 15 years old... you could.

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Yes, Rach... balance... I want to point out in regards to the video above. It DOES NOT feel fatiguing or hurt at all.. it ONLY sounds like it does. It is an illusion. This sound is produced by creating noise in the vocal tract from exciting the ventricular folds and I believe, blowing spit into the vocal tract as well. The result is what we call an "Overlay with husk" distortion at TVS. (The work flows and techniques are described in "The Four Pillars of Singing").

The more I do this and get better and better at it, the more I appreciate how important it is to actually get off the twanger. I have been working on balancing my fold compression against my sub-glottal phonation pressure in such a way, to produce the noise in the vocal tract, but not lose all connectivity of the vibratory mode. It feels like a 20% respiratory "bleed" through the glottis, back-filled with more intercostal work or good respiration... the "pushy down 'n' outties".

If you do this by totally torquing the twanger, it also creates noise and is a kind of vocal distortion that will sound a bit quackier as you would expect, it is also a lot more fatiguing.

The higher the frequency, the respiratory "bleed" you need through the glottis and the more you have to take care to get off the damn twanger... :cool:

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Interesting, I have experienced the narrowing of "Uh" increase the inertance and make it both amplify, but feel less resistant... HOWEVER, the training that let to the strength and endurance to narrow an UH in the first place, and other vowels... came from "hitting the gym" and lifting the "weights" of the "contract & release", "dampen & release" and "quack & release" onsets.

There is no doubt that 'contract & release' is clunky, that is why it seems to not be practical for singing like wind & release onsets or track & release onsets... but that very clunkiness, is something that has helped me to build new levels of beef in my head voice. These onsets work, I don't even know all the reasons why, but they work. Its like vocal gymnastics... if you bend, contract and manipulate the intrinsic musculature around into exotic positions... with reasonable care and caution of course, ... the body builds muscle memory for it and you get stronger.

Evidence that supports my theory.... I believe that many rock singers such as Jon Bon Jovi, Joe Elliot, DIO, and just about any of these guys... that are on their voices day in, day out... every night touring... are getting a lot of "resistance" and on the job "training". One reason these guys sound so great is not because they are particularly more brilliant or even vastly more gifted then the average gifted student.... but because, they are pounding on their intrinsic musculature so often and so frequently, they just have developed amazing strength and endurance. I believe this one fact explains a LOT of the misunderstandings and confusion that arise around why "x rock star" can and "I can't" from students or people that post on this forum. If you were pounding on your voice in this way, night after night, day after day since you were 15 years old... you could.

rob, remember when I used to say the same things? i still exercise (for example chest voice musculature) as loud as possible taking it up as high as possible both ways...

with no release into head voice musculature, and with release into head voice musculature.

i still cry like a baby to work those arytnoids

you have to really work at this just like going to the gym....been saying that for a while.

i've gotten better also by just constantly going to that point of failure, over and over and over again.

that's how i got be able to do some of this motown stuff....

some people will say "well, that's all my voice can do" b.s......you cannot tell what your voice can do, your limits until you've been at this a really long time.

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Well, vocal fold level distortion doesn't have to be fatiguing. It's the same principle used in "creaky voice". An example of people who uses this distortion is Steven Tyler.

Tyler's distortion or rasp is a result of a genetic defect, seen quite clearly on the scope of his throat. Over in the social media site, there is an article on it and a link to the video.

And not that speaking is singing, but his speaking voice has the same rasp or noise.

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Well, as I have said before, if you actually watch the video, his folds produce two apertures. The one near the back is producing the fundamental. In the video, it is the Ab5 in the highest part of "Dream On."

Towards the front is a second aperture, producing an anharmonic tone 180 degrees out of phase with the fundamental. Our ears interpret that as noise or "rasp."

I don't think you can train that. It would be like you, probably of average height, trying to "train" to be my height.

But I get it, some people need to believe that with just the right "technique" (aka, the magic pill), he or she (usually a he) can sound "just like" Steven Tyler.

Even it it were possible and I don't believe for a minute that it is possible and someone with the science and credibility of Steven Fraser would have to give some kind of clinical proof, great. So what? We've already got a Steven Tyler. I would like to hear, for example, an Owen Korzec. Totally unique.

Why is it that no one here tries to sound like Ozzy Osbourne? He sings on pitch, has a good range, and a voice that is immediately identifiable? Never mind, that was rhetorical.

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Tyler voice changed completely from what it used to be, compare the original Dream On with the newer live version. A lot changed

He had surgery, started to be more agressive, etc.

Saying that the rasp is just genetics does not cut, its even more complex. Its the result of being Steven Tyler and doing what he did up to the point where he made that video.

Its like trying to mimic handwriting. You may imitate some letters and some traces, but you are stuck with your letter, nothing can be done besides improing it with trainning.

So more focus on what you will write instead of how...

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The "creak" is actually pretty easy to do up high. It is caused by irregular vocal fold vibration. But CVT warns that you should make sure you can turn it on and off at will or you may unintentionally create an issue with your normal voice that is hard to reverse. Of course if you are Steven Tyler that IS your normal voice.

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rob, remember when I used to say the same things? i still exercise (for example chest voice musculature) as loud as possible taking it up as high as possible both ways...

with no release into head voice musculature, and with release into head voice musculature.

i still cry like a baby to work those arytnoids

you have to really work at this just like going to the gym....been saying that for a while.

i've gotten better also by just constantly going to that point of failure, over and over and over again.

that's how i got be able to do some of this motown stuff....

some people will say "well, that's all my voice can do" b.s......you cannot tell what your voice can do, your limits until you've been at this a really long time.

I hear that Bob, its definitely an athletic endeavor! You got to do the physical training...

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I don't think that TVS distortion is done at the vocal folds...maybe partially (it would seem unavoidable, right?) but you can tell by the way it behaves that the main thing kicking off the distortion are the ventricular folds.

What I believe is happening with this husk distortion is you're basically opening the glottis more, and increasing exhalation force to the point where it naturally induces an approximation of the ventricular folds through the bernoulli effect. But the key is not having the glottis slammed shut otherwise not enough air can get through to the ventricular folds above them at a fast enough rate to get them to create some noise in the vocal tract.

I don't know if that's scientifically accurate, in fact I'm almost certain it's not, but that's how it feels and how I tend to visualize it.

I've only been able to do it occasionally but when I do, it has the same distinct tone Rob's distortion has, it kind of adds dissonant low frequencies in there or something. It also doesn't destroy my voice and feels very easy and simple to produce.

It's definitely nothing like creaky voice. I don't feel like I'm squeezing the true vocal folds and holding back the air, it feels like the exact opposite...opening the true vocal folds and supplying more air, and the result is you get some really cool evil sounding distortion qualities that overlay a good head tone, and it's not fatiguing on the true vocal folds.

This truly is a great post Owen, that pretty much sums it up... Ya, what Owen said... I too have noticed, ... this husky distortion effect I have been working on and I think the TVS work flows get you into do have a subtle, ... witchy sound to them. Which is cool. I concur, they sound cool, but really don't fatigue at all... If anything, they feel more comfortable , then if you were to try to squeeze the twanger.

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