The Voice and Sing-Off - NBC does it right?

[chamcham]

After seeing American Idol tank so much this season and X-factor turning into a bad drama showcase,

I was happy with first couple of episodes of the Voice this week.

One of the episodes of American Idol this year had the worst ratings for American Idol in

over a decade (OUCH!). Also, the groups on X-Factor are a joke compared to NBC's Sing-Off.

Some incredible talent this year on the Voice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMOCtUP9_Vc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pAwYKuWhuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocXiwmkISU0

Some people say that it's a little unfair for Judith Hill to join the show. She was picked to be backup singer

for Michael Jackson on his "This is it" tour. She got a ton of offers after singing at MJ's funeral service, but

decided not to pursue them because she believe it was bad taste. I don't blame her

Also, if you don't know already, NBC's acapella competition ("The Sing-Off") was recently renewed (after

being cancelled last year). Apparently, there are returning to their Season 1 and 2 format

Anyway, just wanted to know what you guys this of the vocal technique from contestants on The Voice so far.

I've read that some people think Kris Thomas performance was a bit too pitchy, but that it's rare to see a male

sing a Whitney Houston song like he did. Judith seemed like she was holding back and has lots more potential.

She looked a little like Tina Turner in that outfit. Christian Porter reminds me of a better Phillip Phillips.

[jonpall]

All of these singers are terribly nasal, pitchy and can't travel through their passagio efficiently.

[jonpall]

...just kidding. Their all obviously extremely talented singers, both technically and artistically.

[D.Starr]

Over in the UK I've auditioned for both XFactor twice and The Voice once. The Voice audition system is by far the better of the two. It's a calm environment where you warm up and cool down before and after your audition, the whole atmosphere was nice and calm, the judges were extremely friendly and unlike the XFactor, I wasn't in front of hundreds of cameras told to bounce and dance around for footage they needed for 5-6 hours on end.

I do like the voice over XFactor but I'm done with competitions. I like the feeling of knowing I'm done something on my own, I'm currently working with a local producer who has ties with Universal and Sony, not the best but hey ho. Knowing that I'm working from the ground up rather than go through a competition like XFactor gives me self confidence. Nothing wrong with going through these avenues, but I find you are constricted because it's TV.

[VideoHere]

the only thing i'm concerned about with shows like this is the listeners begin to think you're not good unless you can can do all kinds of runs and riffs.

some of these runs (not hearing it here) have this pitch bending element to them that I personally don't care for. a lot of singers they showcase.....can they sing the lines straight?

[jonpall]

Yeah Bob and then check out for example the last few winners of American Idol - all white guys with guitar that were FAR from being the most skilled vocalists on the show. It's weird that the judges are asking the singers to do runs and high notes when the winners DON'T do that.

[VideoHere]

but the ones who are doing all of these riffs and runs (at least in the shows i'm in) are perceived as better. just doing riffs and runs does not mean you are a better singer than someone who doesn't.

[ronws]

I lost interest in AI after they got rid of Gabe Brown. And I don't say that because Gabe's father is fellow member Vocalist Dad, so I'm not saying that just to stand up for a fellow member and his family. When they got rid of Gabe, they got rid of the only rock singer.

I like a little r&b. I still dig Darryl Hall and I like his show, "Live at Darryl's House." I would personally like to do a cover of "Rich Girl" one day.

I'm just not into endless r&b from stop to finish, every episode. I think it doesn't matter what song they make the contestants sing, it's going to be an r&b cover of whatever. Which has limited appeal. Let me burst the bubble of the judges and the producers at AI. Not everyone in the entire world wants all r&b, all the time.

Shocking, I know.

Some of us, even the general public, like rock and roll. Maybe, one day, they will re-introduce it into that.

But I fear all these singer talent show things are going to gravitate to that noodling r&b thing. And will lose more audience share, and wonder why,

[chamcham]

I lost interest in AI after they got rid of Gabe Brown. And I don't say that because Gabe's father is fellow member Vocalist Dad, so I'm not saying that just to stand up for a fellow member and his family. When they got rid of Gabe, they got rid of the only rock singer.

I like a little r&b. I still dig Darryl Hall and I like his show, "Live at Darryl's House." I would personally like to do a cover of "Rich Girl" one day.

I'm just not into endless r&b from stop to finish, every episode. I think it doesn't matter what song they make the contestants sing, it's going to be an r&b cover of whatever. Which has limited appeal. Let me burst the bubble of the judges and the producers at AI. Not everyone in the entire world wants all r&b, all the time.

Shocking, I know.

Some of us, even the general public, like rock and roll. Maybe, one day, they will re-introduce it into that.

But I fear all these singer talent show things are going to gravitate to that noodling r&b thing. And will lose more audience share, and wonder why,

The runner-up on "The Voice" last season was a Scottish rock singer (Terry McDermott).

Straight, classic rock. And his voice was incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwYbOliP6LM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwvy4i679oA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Hi70wdlpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIBEWbws9EA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpmJBYpK-mE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKjIw0TAs-A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbKCVPpjx7A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgsPBH4Or-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdwpqXq1pF4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUCu2hCkCBc

[ronws]

Okay, I get it, you really like the show, the voice, and you like Terry McDermott.

And yes, he is a clean-voiced singer singing rock. The song he sounded best suited for was the Boston song, even though he botched a note. But kudos for being a pro and rolling right on through.

I was talking about AI, probably out of context, I guess, now.

So, I apologize. But, just as an aside, this is a rock singer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv_v82rt2QM

[chamcham]

American Idol is so bad this season it's not even funny.

While one person is talking, the other judges are texting on their phones while on the air.

Just a few seconds ago, you can clearly seeing 2 judges only paying attention to their phones.

Yes. I missed Gabe too.

He actually left a note when he was eliminated.

But then again, we're talking about a show that crowned Phillip Phillips as the winner.

I'd say Phillip was clearly outclassed by the other 2 finalists.

Another issue is that American Idol has to have the songs cleared by the original composer

before it can be performed on the air. I wonder if it's more difficult to clear R&B songs that rock songs.

[ronws]

We'll part of AI's deal this year is to tweet live every little bit of whatever. To where cell phone tech is more important than the actual singing.

I have not watched the voice recently.

I found it oddly ironic that Steven Tyler was a judge on AI, considering that he never went through the dog-and-pony show of a "talent show." He earned his success the old-fahsioned way, playing live in any place where they didn't run him off.

Yet, here he was juding a talent show.

Also, on the Gabe Brown audition, notice how Randy Jackson comments on the "rock thing." So, Gabe is already being discounted. The judge's panel is 3 r&b people and one soft country guy, nowhere near the outlaw that say Jerry Jeff Walker or even Gretchen Wilson was.

Totally soft music, all the time, suitable for elevators.

The Voice, not far behind. Where they search for the perfect voice so they can change it.

Or am I just jealous because I am an old man singing to my dog and my cat?

:lol:

[Remylebeau]

I found it oddly ironic that Steven Tyler was a judge on AI, considering that he never went through the dog-and-pony show of a "talent show." He earned his success the old-fahsioned way, playing live in any place where they didn't run him off.

American Idol can be a shortcut to success for some, but some of the people who go on these shows have been paying their dues playing night after night in any place that will take them. American Idol is, at the end of the day, a great promotional opportunity. Yes, if you're serious about getting famous, play live in any place that will take you just like Steven Tyler did. But if you have the opportunity to sing on national television, it would be silly to pass up that opportunity.

[chamcham]

The executive producer for American Idol (I think his name is Nigel Lythgoe) had a show last year called "Opening Act.".

Each episode they searched Youtube for singers to open for a famous band/singer. It covered all different genres.

They had a roundtable discussion from people in the music industry to narrow down the choices every week and then voted.

The winner was given a short time to prepare. The end of the episode was the opening act itself.

I thought it was an interesting idea.

But yeah, at the end of the day these shows are promotional opportunities for singers that want to get a record deal.

Even if you don't win, if you impressed enough people, you might get phone calls from record executives.

And even if you do get a record deal, you'll get ripped off since everyone gets their share

of the money before the artist sees anything. I think I read somewhere that an artist's album

needs to go gold before the artist starts getting any money at all. So if you don't at least go gold,

you don't make any money as an artist :(

[VideoHere]

interesting that he raised the key on the mr. mister song.

[ronws]

And even if you do get a record deal, you'll get ripped off since everyone gets their share

of the money before the artist sees anything. I think I read somewhere that an artist's album

needs to go gold before the artist starts getting any money at all. So if you don't at least go gold,

you don't make any money as an artist

Either you read the same books that I have read or you read one of my posts on the subject.

Out of 100% of sales, the record company immediately discounts 10% for "breakage." This was a real problem when albums were phonographs made out of ceramic, and even early vinyl. They never changed the contracts, even during the advent of cd's.

So, out of the remaining 90%, the standard beginning artist rate is 12.5 %. Out of the artist's share, the producer of the recording gets 10 %. The artist's management averages 10 % - 15 %. Attorney for the artist usually works on percentage since the artist doesn't have any money. So, that's usually another 10 %. By the time it's all said and done, the artist is receiving an effect 3% of the album unit sold.

Especially if the artist got an advance ($20k USD is common.) Often, this advance money goes right on toward buying new equipment, clothes, other necessities. And then, the contract legerdemain starts all over again dealing with tour promoters. We are friends with country star Allan Hurt. He has lost a small fortune here and there on live shows where others dropped the ball but he was still liable, usually having already bought an allotment of show tickets that were his to sell and then the venue booked someone else.

Anyway, yes, an album needs to sell gold status, which is 500,000 units in the US, before he starts receiving any money. If the album went platinum (1,000,000 sold) by the end of the year, he might take home a check equal to that of a journeyman electrician, before taxes.

Yes, it's a rip off. If you can do it, do what my brother did. Start your own label and music publishing. Yes, all the operating costs are yours. But so is the profit.