Raise soft palate or widen pillars of fauces?

[WebAndNet.com]

Individuals are different, and in particular, vocal tension patterns can be very different.

I had read so often here to raise the soft palate. Yet, in Alan Greene's book, the New Voice, he says-- to billow out the pillars of fauces and RELAX the soft palate.

I've experimented with both and believe Alan Greene is right. Here's why.

The pathways to the cavities that resonante high frequencies (nasal cavities and sinuses)--is through the nasal-pharynx pathway or through the bony part of the upper mouth (hard palate). The soft palate, together with the position of the throat-neck and larynx, control the "mix" of the sounds going out to the mouth, the hard palate, and nasal-pharynx.

Deliberately lifting my soft palate has consistently produced too bright of a sound. When I tried to billow out the pillars of fauces (sides of soft palate) and relax the soft palate, this enabled the soft palate to freely move, providing a great deal subtly because the mix is now fast in emotional adjustments. The widening of the pillars of fauces enables adequate air-sound to reach the nasal cavities.

I just don't think this idea of raising the soft palate is right. Even if someone has lots of downward tension in soft palate, the idea should be to get rid of this tension to enable for a free soft palate, as its significant voice mix capabilities determine much of the vocal quality.

[Felipe Carvalho]

The problem is on the "raise" of the soft palate.

Rising the soft palate does one, unique, only and single thing, changes the proportion between nasal and oral components.

As it rises, the quality becomes more oral.

The reason why we have to think of lifting is that when we start to use a relatively more relaxed pharynx and lift the tongue blade, you will have a tendency to go nasal, so you lift it and ballance the tendency.

The mistake is thinking that just by sending voice back, or forcing it to raise somehow, will relax tensions. The velar port controls nasality yes, but so does the tongue. Most people will reflex a tendency to nasality by contracting the pharynx and lowering the tongue. Which makes it very hard, if not impossible, to let go of chest coordination.

Trying to let go of chest and at the same time forcing chest to happen = tension. Its best to just continue on chest voice rather than do that.

And in the case of this kind of tension happening, what Greene describes will fit like a glove, even if its not a precise physical description, will render the ajustments you need to make.

The problem is knowing who are the ones that need this kind of ajustment? And who are the ones where this will not be effective. You have a lot of cases where its exactly the opposite.

[D.Starr]

How does one widen the Pillar of Fauces?

[WebAndNet.com]

Thanks for pointing out a possible error in my inference of Greene, Rachsing. Actually, I can't recall whether Greene said specifically whether high frequencies are resonanted by the nasal cavity or not. I'll check and get back on this.

My impression was that the higher frequencies are amplified behind the face mask area. Did I get this wrong?

[VideoHere]

i think both methods have their place.

[WebAndNet.com]

http://www.brianvollmer.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:resonance&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50

This article says that hard palate acts as a sound amplification board, and the sinuses do resonate-amplify the high frequencies. This makes sense. The hard palate may be the amplification board, but it still needs air space, and the sinuses and nasal cavity provide such. What I still don't understand is what is how the nasal cavity affect sound resonance, both high and low frequencies.

[WebAndNet.com]

Well, I don't know whether the hard palate amplifies or not. So, what does amplify the high frequencies in the head voice? Sinuses must be one resonance cavity. How about the nasal cavity?

Does anyone know an accurate answer on the action of the hard palate as a sounding board, as Brian Vollmer claims?

Also, I've never really understood projection and sinus cavity and face mask. I couldn't figure out what various teachers were talking about when they say to project using the face mask. I can see how the sinus cavity add resonance, but they are very small, and I couldn't understand how they could gather sufficient power to create great projection.

[MDEW]

Yes, the hard palate is a part of the vocal tract and therefore a part of the resonance chamber. But basically all else he is saying is nonsense.

The hard palet is a sounding board so is the neck bones, ribs and scull. Yes you need a resonace chamber but you also need a solid object that vibrates. Example the sounding board in a piano. You place a tuning fork on a solid oblect not in the middle of a chamber to make the volume.

[WebAndNet.com]

Thank you Mdew. I never understood this.

[MDEW]

MDEW,

Actually, it's the pressure differences in the air that carries the acoustic power of the voice.

Without the soundboard you have no vibrations to carry.

[MDEW]

MDEW,

In voicing, it's the vibrations from the vocal folds that disturbs the air molecules in the vocal tract.

Rachsing, Yes I know that. I am just trying to convey my meaning and I am failing,

Forget book learning for a moment. let's take an accoustic guitar as example, If you used foam for the body of the guitar instead of wood you would not get much sound out of it because the foam is not solid enough to transfer the sound. foam would absorb the sound not increase the sound. In relation to a guitar our bones are the wood not our flesh. Our mouth is like the sound hole in the guitar.

Again trying to convey the concept not trying to be all scientific.

[MDEW]

I think both have something to do with it. If you take two tuning forks of the same pitch mounted to seperate blocks of wood and set one vibrating when you touch the other block of wood to the vibrating one the other tuning fork will vibrate also. because the wood itself is vibrating it transfers the vibration to the other tuning fork.

An accoustical chamber must have proprties to reflect the vibration also.

Our bones are like the block of wood in the above example. carrying the vibrations to the accoustical chambers of our scull, Sinus cavities, mouth, nasal cavities and rib cage.

I am not a teacher (you can tell that, I am sure) and I do have trouble relaying an idea. so do not let me confuse you.

[MDEW]

You think too much. Yes, the "Walls" are not the source. Just like the tuning fork if you hold it in your hand and strike it you hear nothing(or very little) until you set its base on a SOLID object. The properties of the object "HELP" form the "Tonal Characteristics" and volume. In the case of a tuning fork on a block of wood Where is the radiating hole?

[MDEW]

And how does that relate to the vocal tract?

It relates to the bones of the skelaton contributing to volume and resonance in vocal production.

Web and net wrote:

This article says that hard palate acts as a sound amplification board, and the sinuses do resonate-amplify the high frequencies. This makes sense. The hard palate may be the amplification board, but it still needs air space, and the sinuses and nasal cavity provide such. What I still don't understand is what is how the nasal cavity affect sound resonance, both high and low frequencies.

"Rachsing wrote:

Yes, the hard palate is a part of the vocal tract and therefore a part of the resonance chamber. But basically all else he is saying is nonsense."

These statements are what got us on this discussion.

[MDEW]

This article says that hard palate acts as a sound amplification board.

I am trying to say that The bones in a person act as a sound amplification board. "Part" of the the volume and character of a voice is determined by sypathetic vibrations of the bones themselves much like the tuning fork gets its volume from the sypathetic vibrations of the object that you place it on.

Part of the CONNECTION in support is having enough "tension"(Not too much just enough to have a connection) on the Vocal mechanism to transfer vibrations to and from the ribs to the scull.

[MDEW]

I am not a scientist. I cannot prove it. But it is no different than a tuning fork being struck without its base resting on a solid object and then placing it on a solid object and listen to the difference in sound. I do not need to explain it to hear that it is so. :)

[Felipe Carvalho]

Neither is wrong, without reflective surfaces you dont have resonance inside the tube shape, and the resonance that matters when talking about the human voice is the result of the internal shape of the vocal tract, tongue being the main factor of ajustment.

The sympathetic vibrations are small compared to the whole. But they are important when you work to reference the voice from sensations. In this case, they exist and are important.

Just note mdew, that getting things to "feel" like vibrating is not the same as resonance. If you try to maximize the internal sensations, you will produce a lot of dampening and pressure, killing resonance instead of using it.

The good way to use it as a reference is to set it work well and then notice how it feels for you. Everyone gets a different sensation from it. Once a good reference is set, its also easy to start to manipulate the sensation to indirectly produce ajustments, that become considerably smaller to be done in a direct way. Even a small ajustment on the tongue height produces a large change.

[MDEW]

Thanks Felipe, and thank you also Rachsing.

I do not know enough to tell how things work. Knowing that they work is enough for me.

Rachsing, I appreciate your thurst for knowledge about the actual workings of the voice but do not let that get in the way of actual observation and your own common sense. Just like the things I wrote here, they are from my current understand. I can be wrong and I admit that. Scientists are no different they work from current understanding on their part.

[ronws]

I raise my left toe for chiaro, and my right toe for oscuro. If I raise both, I either sound balanced or I fall backward.

Just kidding. What I do is swing the cat around the room by the tail and see if she can match my sound.