Another One Bites the Dust

[srs7593]

This song is an absolute blast to sing. I noticed that Freddie Mercury skips out on a lot of the high notes in live performances...

Can we talk about tension/fatigue? And support? Also, what I'm doing right and where I do it right? Telling me all the things that are wrong just plain isn't very helpful. I'm aware that a good chunk of resolving tension is breath support, which I still really just have a limited understanding of. I learned to sing high in a hurry. Before I was ready, for sure.

I'm very tense in general. Not just in singing, but in general. I'm kind of at a weird point in my singing where I don't know what is a good idea and what isn't. I still can't tell whether I'm improving or not. I don't trust my own judgement lately. Overall however, I guess I like the way this sounds. Like Axl, but a little cleaner, probably a little weaker/less intense which is ok for Queen, and less pharyngial; maybe more open. Could almost pass as a tenor. I was trying to stay super light but loud.

The right hand on my chest is just the nervous tick of the month. I only learned about it thanks to this video. What I need is a microphone to occupy that hand. :|

For people who have critiqued me before, am I making progress? I think it's possible for me to sing that high with a good sound, and nothing anyone says is likely to stop me from trying.

[ronws]

You do better on open vowels, like ah, or even a bit of eh. When you sing a word like sit or feet, you are pronouncing like i in the word sit, as pronounced by an american. Stay away from that because it is detuning you. Let it be ee for those sounds.

You do have an Axl sound. So, use that. Re-do this not as Freddie but as Axl. That is, don't try to match Freddie's phrasing. Sing it like you would imagine a GnR cover of it. You have some strengths, use them.

[Keith]

Your lower notes sound good bro, but you are forcing the living ever s*it out of the high ones

You have some options .. You can train to sing it mixed voice, you can sing the higher parts in complete head (which wouldn't be bad for a queen cover), or you can gently try in increase your chest voice limit enough

Whatever you decide, you shouldn't be straining so hard

Try to sing the notes clean first / and when that is comfortable, add grit if you want

But learning to sing those notes at the same time as learning how to add grit will slow you down. Good luck!

[srs7593]

I'm not trying to add grit and I was actually going for light and clean. When I get louder it gets gritty. The grit feels like it comes from some kind of resonance pocket. It's present in my comfortable range as well.

I don't think I can have "mixed" voice without strain. My chest voice doesn't reach up to meet my passaggio very well at all. My F4s are really clumsy. I'd go for the head voice option every time though. :/

I find that my voice is uniquely tense. I've never met another singer who has tension issues of the same magnitude as me. Maybe it's because I bite off more than I can chew, maybe it's partially stress related, maybe it's because I'm a bass 2 with usable C2s 95% of the time and a G1 on a good day who is trying to sing Queen songs and has only been singing for about 4 years (going back to the first thing...)

I just don't really know where to go with it at this point. I might try the Axl thing, but I don't want to come off as an imitator and I don't want to feel like I'm selling myself short by not singing with a decently "full" sound. For the most part, I feel more strain on the Gs and Ab4s than the Bbs and Cs, or perhaps the same exact amount on all of them.

Is it important to add that I had been singing this way for 45+ minutes before hand? Tension and all? I certainly don't feel any pain when or after I do it, but of course I still want to sing less tense because it will only open doors. It sounds better and I will be able to hold notes longer. I also don't know what the long term effects will be of straining and I don't want to find out. I just don't want to give up on singing with a rock voice. If I put it away for awhile, it will probably just be worse when I try to start again. I could try easier songs for a while and work my way up, but because the hardest notes are F4-A4, there aren't too many "easier" songs for me to work on that I can think of.

I guess my next video can be a Gn'R song. That might be a good game plan.

[srs7593]

...It's like a saxophone... the grit... that is. In a way...

[srs7593]

UPDATE. I'm currently as I type singing "Legs" by ZZ top. This is the best idea I've had all week.

[Nicogratouille]

I have to say your high notes are absolutely horrible! Yes, they do sound a bit like Axl Rose but don't settle for this sound. It takes some practice but eventually you can learn to do much better than that.

Nick

[srs7593]

Thanks for the useful advice.

[MDEW]

I am not a teacher and I am also still trying get that dreaded passaggio straitened out.

I listened to some of the others songs that you have posted on you tube. Even though on this clip you look like you are struggling for the higher notes you are singing them.

My own personal opinion is that if you can sing the notes with strain it is in reach to sing them without.

I have the same trouble of knowing that I can sing the notes with ease but the way to do so does not sound the way I feel it should.

Many people feel that by working from the top down is more useful in the beginning than from the bottom up.

In other words start from a high head voice(That is not strained) and slide the note down into your normal voice range.( but keep the head voice coordination). What you are trying to do is strengthen the head voice coordination in the chest voice range and get your body used to that feeling.

I have been singing along to songs only using my head voice. After awhile it does become easier to manage full closure of the vocal folds and create a chest voice sound in the higher ranges.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Did not like it man, the problems are the same of the other songs, although this one is a bit easier than going for Pantera.

Are you working with a teacher? Are you trainning? Do you have a plan of trainning ahead of you? It will not change just because of a positive attitude.

Anyways, chest voice is still very weak and you break when you go higher + strainning. Not working...

GL!

[ronws]

You've got power, but I'm not hearing it 'cause you're not using it yet. You also might be singing outside of your range? If you're a bass you shouldn't be trying to sing tenor range unless you want to compromise your voice and potentially your vocal health.

I think you said that in your "outside voice."

Sebastian Bach, a friend of Axl Rose, has said in more than one interview, that the reason Axl is sometimes late getting to the stage, or cancels shows, is because he cannot get his voice up to the range of the songs.

Back in the heyday, Axl, Rob Gardner, and Tracii Gunns started a band called Hollywood Rose. They had to change the name because another band had the name, first. So, the combined two of the last names to come up with Guns and Roses. According to Rob Gardner, the drummer, Axl was singing all the songs in bass and baritone. And Axl sang bass in church choir. One day he was doing this "whiny falsetto", as Gardner describes it. And it sounded cool for the song, at the time. Next thing you know, it's the sound for a career.

Just saying....

[srs7593]

I don't think people get that I sang this in a voice that I thought would pi$$ people off.

[MDEW]

I don't think people get that I sang this in a voice that I thought would pi$$ people off.

No, I do not get it. Why? :|

[gno]

I think you've got good potential. The lower stuff seems pretty good. the high stuff needs a lot of work. It's definitely there but it's not connected. I'm not a teacher, but my advice would be the same as Felipe's - create a path for training. Find a teacher - maybe take a skype lesson, or get a DVD program. You've got good rhythm, a sense of style, and a good sounding voice. That's half the battle. You having to get that connected head voice going. That's not easy and it takes the right kind of practicing.

[srs7593]

FWIW I'm prett sure Axl is a undertrained tenor, who had/has(?) lousy tech. hahaha... Even his coach was embarrassed lol...

Axl Rose pretty much indisputably is a low baritone and in my opinion, a pretty good singer.

I sthpeak with a listhp.

[srs7593]

No, I do not get it. Why? :|

This song is about recovering from domestic violence and returning to reality after long term power imbalance within a relationship. It needs to reflect that idea and it needs to get people's attention. This is my approach. I could have sung the whole thing down an octave nice and pretty. But it wouldn't have, imo, served the song. Don't think of Freddie Mercury. Think of the song.

I wouldn't have tried a totally different song like "We Are the Champions."

[Jens]

Man just give it some confidence, your body is all over the place you stroll along not having your body with you. It would not have mattered if you sang it 100% correct, cause the confidence and body is not there and i directly reflects on your performance.

[MDEW]

This song is about recovering from domestic violence and returning to reality after long term power imbalance within a relationship. It needs to reflect that idea and it needs to get people's attention. This is my approach. I could have sung the whole thing down an octave nice and pretty. But it wouldn't have, imo, served the song. Don't think of Freddie Mercury. Think of the song.

I wouldn't have tried a totally different song like "We Are the Champions."

Sorry dude. I get it now. I truely believe in singing to the emotion of the song.

I missed that by listening for ways to help instead of listening for emotional intent in the context of the song.

[srs7593]

I mean I want help with technique for sure, but with my range and skill level (both of them are fairly low) singing more connected will have to either wait, or just be considered less important. I can sing this song better, but not yet.

I tried it because it was very difficult. I posted it live in one take in a video format because I want you to see me for what I really am. A lot of people never do that.

I will probably get four pillars eventually. I will probably do a skype lesson with Rob if I do decide to.

[MDEW]

A lot of times Rock singing sounds like you are screaming and getting tight and straining but it is an ellusion.

The good thing about having a deep voice like yours is that when you get the higher notes (We do not have to strive for higher and higher notes, by the way) They will sound more powerful and full.

The sound that is created is based on a tension free coordination. The ANGST, PASSION, and RASPINESS are distorsions that are controlled and less harmfull to the vocal cords. It just sounds like you are shredding them.

[srs7593]

Man just give it some confidence, your body is all over the place you stroll along not having your body with you. It would not have mattered if you sang it 100% correct, cause the confidence and body is not there and i directly reflects on your performance.

The visual plays a role in how the sound is perceived. Do I sound like I'm having trouble more than I look like I'm having trouble?

A lot of times Rock singing sounds like you are screaming and getting tight and straining but it is an ellusion.

:|

It just sounds like you are shredding them.

...................

I kid, I kid. But how do you know the difference? I can sing it in a completely ridiculous, airy, cartoony headvoicetto, and expend less effort doing it. I often warm up this way. But is that how I should perform it? Just because it's easier and less strain on the voice? I can't express anything that way, so I vote no.

[MDEW]

I understand that also. My elmo voice can sing any rock song. Even HEART and PAT BENETAR. But who wants to hear Elmo sing? :P

[Jens]

Man just give it some confidence, your body is all over the place you stroll along not having your body with you. It would not have mattered if you sang it 100% correct, cause the confidence and body is not there and i directly reflects on your performance.

Can you try doing the same thing again with tons of confidence, get into a character, something very distant from yourself.

Try adding the standard hardrockerssupport(squeezing your armpits) to give extra energy when you feel it's needed. Focus on the camera and dont drift away, let the body feed the energy to the singing. Try this and see what happens, sonetimes just a change of attitude and approach can change a performance :)

[srs7593]

I'm up for it, Jens.

I find I can sound more connected if I sing with a more covered sound. The diction just gets muddy. But I think it will be better in the long run.

[ronws]

I have to agree with something Justin said.

Once or twice before, someone has come in, wanting to get Axl's sound. And I don't care if anyone believes me or think it's in response to the almost recent threads about nasality.

The key to Axl's upper range was ubernasality. I would tell someone, if they really wanted his sound or to get close to it, get all the way into the nose.

I am amazed when I learn that others CANNOT hear it. How can a person NOT hear it?

And, that being said, I am not a fan of lots of nasality, Justin's threads aside. I just never made a big point of it, outside of his threads.

SRS, you have a deep voice, depper than mine, pitched lower in conversational volume than mine.

So, you may have to approach things differently than I do to sing in the same range as I can sing.

Frisell pointed out that the tenor break is between E4 and F4 (his words, En and Fn above middle C, n meaning natural, as in not sharp or flat.) And, because of that, natural tenors have to spend more time in the passaggio since pretty much all tenor roles or melody lines are in that region. So, tenors deal with it sooner, rather than later. Especially someone like me, who's lowest full volume acoustic note is around C3. I am just closer to the passaggio than deeper placed voices. But we still have to deal with it, every one of us.

But I also think, like others, that you can do this without doing the Axl sound. But I suggested it at first, since you seemed to already have a similar sound. But others are right. With some training and application, you can sing better and cleaner than Axl. Yes, I said that out loud.

Now, I am waiting for reaction for that similar to what Justin received when he dared to point out the humanity of Steve Perry. A sin for which he shall probably never be forgiven.

Welcome, Justin, on the highway to Hell. I've got a fast car, beer in the cooler, smokes in the carton next to it. A bottle of scotch, if you are feeling froggy ....

(insert devil smiley here)