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hi steve thanks for the offer.im not particularly interested in distortions as its not something that i wish to work on but it may be interesting for those who do. the video was in post #40 from Martin and the distortion was at the 4:37 mark where she is singing the highish STAY´s.

i very much enjoyed reading your conclusion on the jefferson airplane vocal. you articulated many of my own thoughts on it! i think its a fine high male vocal production thats works well in the rock medium but could be applied to many styles. i would be very interested to hear your findings on the analysis of the applied pharyngeal voice video as well as those high tenor F´s from the dutchdivas site (both from post #32)

i would also be intereted in finding out more about what you said in an earlier post.

``All: It occurs to me that it might be useful for me to go back to the published literature on the acoustics of the vocal tract, and to model the effects of laryngeal position. Not only do the formants move up as the vocal tract shortens, but the wide part of the lower pharynx, which is normally a factor in tone quality, is removed from the equation.

I think I saw an online, parameterized resonance simulator that could be tweaked to show the acoustic effects of laryngeal height on the resulting tone quality. I will let ev'body know what I am able to find.´´

by the way guys did anyone think that the applied pharyngeal voice vid sounded much different from your perception of what twang sounds like?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AMhSTtnVSuI

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Robert, not to start going off subject for too long but i wanted to clear somethings up.

´´what I would advise is that you move away from thinking one thing is better than the other just because someone said so. Voice pedagogy is not about seeking the truth in one method... its seeking the truth in exploring all and taking what you need to apply to your art.``

my opinions on the SLS approach and many of its beliefs have not occured because someone told me to believe so. they formed though my own journey and discoveries into voice. it just so happens it made the most sense to me and fitted with many of my own conclusions. im not saying it has all the answers, i do think it had some though, many important ones. any other aspect from whatever other school/technique i find helpfull would never get brushed aside by me just because it didint have SLS written on it :cool:

´´I can assure you , by the vast majority... when done properly... it is considered to be amazing, is what bands want, is what is required for an entire genre' of music, is what 80% of my clients are looking for, feels good, sounds killer, gets you the job, also helps a lot with bridging for some people, sells records, gives you range and makes you feel like a super-human, laser shootin, face meltin vocal metal thunder Goblet... :cool: ``

´´To follow up on Martin's comment... I guess in my defense... one of the things (centre) that gets me a little excited is when I read that twang is considered to be "ugly" and other little comments that are purely from your personal opinion ...``

dude, actually my opinion is that i like some twangy singers. i love axl rose for instance. there are some that i find too grating however like the singer Anastacia (she to me uses pure twang as supposed to pharygeal) i was merely stating that some genres would probably find even an axl type twang ugly. i was also making the point that sometimes we make more ugly sounds as a training tool and then apply them to are singing.

if by an entire genre of music you mean rock and metal then i would have to disagree. i think the vocals on the jefferson airship track sound great for rock and metal and they are not twanged by my definition.in fact it doesnt sound very different to me than some early geoff tate vocals just less affected . i agree that you might not get a real great rasp or such that way but thats an additional topic. any way what is a rock or metal vocal these days. you have some really beautifully toned female singers fronting metal bands these days and people using all kinds of sounds not just a stereo typical raspy rock voices or piercing twang for instance.

´´Your "balanced larynx" teacher & books that have build vocal franchise empires for the last 20 years on this idea... are in dire need of an update and an appreciation that "balanced" configurations do not and can not produce all the sounds that some singers are in need of.``

Robert, are you implying that teachers like Roger Love, Thomas Appell and Brett Manning as well as some rock orientated teachers like Mark Baxter are jumping on the mixed voice/balanced larynx technique band wagon so they can benifit from the ´´vocal franchise empire´´ as you put it rather than them actually finding it succesful to themselves and their clients? anyway there are many techniques/schools that would gladly cut off limbs to be in a postion where their technique/school has attained such notoriety to be able to build an empire.

you are right though that some of the balanced configurations may not get them some certain sounds they may want such as distortion but like you said its about teaching the isolation, deactivation of unhelpful muscles and building helpful ones and such first an thats what those techniques specialize in but then many singers start finding ranges they never had and feeling a sense of ease and improvement with aspects like vibrato or vocal runs and tone aswell. i agree that that just stating that such effects like distortion or a high larynx are bad just because you think it sounds wrong is not a good outlook and im sure you can teach rasps and such safely. i know that SLS has it reasons why something like a high larynx isnt good for fully correct coordinations but any proof of this would just result in loggerheads of SLS backed vocal scientists vs somthing like Estill. only completely independabt research could throw up unbiased answers.

´´The argument comes into play when you quickly realize as a professional teacher and singer that the balanced larynx config. does not produce a sound that is applicable to a lot of contemporary styles of singing. You dont get an aggressive, amplified overtone & cut in the head voice, you dont get a sense of "aggresion" if your a rocker and you most certainly dont get any distortion effects.... Sure, train the balance to get isolated... then begin to build something that will make people stand up and shout. In the end you want to be able to calibrate between projected sounds and contracted sounds... you want the ability to sing either way. At TVS we train both configurations and encourage singers to learn how to calibrate for more twang or throttle back for more "hoot". Why would you not want to be able to do both?``

dude i dont know what SLS you have been exposed to but to say its not applicable to alot of contemporary styles of singing does make me wonder.

have a look at this SLS summer camp vid. theres quite a few styles.admittedly none of them raspy or distorted etc but we have already covered that one!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Va1I_xwOk

this is one of the points im trying to make is that it seems that laryngeal position is somewhat independant of being able to produce ´´ring`` or carrying and cutting power. though of course each laryngeal position will have its own dinstinctive affect on the over all ring, cut or projection thanks to the aspects that have all ready been covered-vocal tract and resonating space shaping, emphasising one formant and not another etc.

i agree about having a choice of laryngeal positions, but we already covered that when i talked about a floating larynx has the choice of going up or down. its doesnt have to be locked into one or the other.

sorry people i went way off topic there.....again but i just wanted to clarify some things

p.s if what ive written reads as jibberish blame my lack of sleep over the last couple of days ok :cool:

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Centre thanx for the clip...cool :)

But your configuration are far from what Patti is using. maybe that have changed since...

This is a clip of me singing in the mode Overdrive(CVT) :

http://www.box.net/shared/6x87ftv47v

Notice how much power and volume Overdrive has! (I'm standing in another room!)

To my knowledge you'll never achieve that by using the speech level aproach - and it's a clean note..

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Hi Martin, that clip is the closest i can provide at the moment as i dont have access to my recording gear right this second. i would assume that even if i did do a recording of the high F patti was singing it would sound a little different based on the configuration she is using that results in that distortion and other little things like the fact that the F is gonna sound different between and male and a female.

anyway glad you enjoyed the painkiller clip :) i think a difference between how i sounded then in the high range and now if i do that high larynx stuff is that it sounds a bit more solid now as there is some mix engaged where as back then it was much more a pure heady/falsettoish sound without any mix of chest.

the main difference in the sound of the top note of your clip and how i produce it is the quality(as in the difference of sound, NOT one better quality than the other lol). by that point im am very much in mix (you can hear some pharyngeal-ish ring at that point) where as yours sounds much more chest engaged, which i can hear could be percieved as more powerful and probably is slightly louder, though i can produce the mixed version loud.

i dont think either is wrong or one better than the other, its just down to which one someone personally chooses to produce.

i will try to get to my place to record me doing the same thing so we can compare the sound. i think it will relate to what we have been talking about in terms of ring, twang and such.

i dont have my copy of CVT with me at the moment so maybe you can answer. are you adding twang or edge to produce the overdrive sound in your clip?

cheers

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twang is a necc. component of singing, regardless which mode you're gonna sing in. The question is how much.

Overdrive is created by singing with a bite, and only 2 vowels are allowed oh and eh.

Keeping more chest engaged is certainly not a bad or a dangerous thing, allthough if you do wrong you can do more hurt.

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this is a good point. if a certain amount of twang is needed for all singing then i dont see it as an added effect or procedure. the twang im refering to is very much an added quality.

as i mentioned before a singer i consider to use alot of twang is Anastacia (see vid below)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xg5oDzZu5jc

personally i find her voice too grating with her twang but thats just me. i do think it sounds different from the pharyngeal voice, though less so when used high (see vid as posted before)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AMhSTtnVSuI

Elrathion, i have heard both sides of the argument of keeping more chest engaged or belted type sounds. im sure there is a way it can be done safely. personally i have never felt the need or want for such sounds as i like more mixed voiced sounds. its down to personal preference and thinking on which you like.

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Steven, take a look at this

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VKqP2skE6-Y

talk about using the resonace spaces to achieve different sounds!

Centre: Yep. Its amazing stuff.

I know some people that have learned this technique. Basically, the pharyngeal resonance space is taken out of the equation, so that the resonance which remains is produced by 2nd-formant tuning, and is used very flexibly to select which overtone to emphasize.

This guy is very accomplished. What an interesting sound, eh?

I scoped his performance. Very fun to watch.

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Robert, not to start going off subject for too long but i wanted to clear somethings up.

´´what I would advise is that you move away from thinking one thing is better than the other just because someone said so. Voice pedagogy is not about seeking the truth in one method... its seeking the truth in exploring all and taking what you need to apply to your art.``

my opinions on the SLS approach and many of its beliefs have not occured because someone told me to believe so. they formed though my own journey and discoveries into voice. it just so happens it made the most sense to me and fitted with many of my own conclusions. im not saying it has all the answers, i do think it had some though, many important ones. any other aspect from whatever other school/technique i find helpfull would never get brushed aside by me just because it didint have SLS written on it :cool:

´´I can assure you , by the vast majority... when done properly... it is considered to be amazing, is what bands want, is what is required for an entire genre' of music, is what 80% of my clients are looking for, feels good, sounds killer, gets you the job, also helps a lot with bridging for some people, sells records, gives you range and makes you feel like a super-human, laser shootin, face meltin vocal metal thunder Goblet... :cool: ``

´´To follow up on Martin's comment... I guess in my defense... one of the things (centre) that gets me a little excited is when I read that twang is considered to be "ugly" and other little comments that are purely from your personal opinion ...``

dude, actually my opinion is that i like some twangy singers. i love axl rose for instance. there are some that i find too grating however like the singer Anastacia (she to me uses pure twang as supposed to pharygeal) i was merely stating that some genres would probably find even an axl type twang ugly. i was also making the point that sometimes we make more ugly sounds as a training tool and then apply them to are singing.

if by an entire genre of music you mean rock and metal then i would have to disagree. i think the vocals on the jefferson airship track sound great for rock and metal and they are not twanged by my definition.in fact it doesnt sound very different to me than some early geoff tate vocals just less affected . i agree that you might not get a real great rasp or such that way but thats an additional topic. any way what is a rock or metal vocal these days. you have some really beautifully toned female singers fronting metal bands these days and people using all kinds of sounds not just a stereo typical raspy rock voices or piercing twang for instance.

´´Your "balanced larynx" teacher & books that have build vocal franchise empires for the last 20 years on this idea... are in dire need of an update and an appreciation that "balanced" configurations do not and can not produce all the sounds that some singers are in need of.``

Robert, are you implying that teachers like Roger Love, Thomas Appell and Brett Manning as well as some rock orientated teachers like Mark Baxter are jumping on the mixed voice/balanced larynx technique band wagon so they can benifit from the ´´vocal franchise empire´´ as you put it rather than them actually finding it succesful to themselves and their clients? anyway there are many techniques/schools that would gladly cut off limbs to be in a postion where their technique/school has attained such notoriety to be able to build an empire.

you are right though that some of the balanced configurations may not get them some certain sounds they may want such as distortion but like you said its about teaching the isolation, deactivation of unhelpful muscles and building helpful ones and such first an thats what those techniques specialize in but then many singers start finding ranges they never had and feeling a sense of ease and improvement with aspects like vibrato or vocal runs and tone aswell. i agree that that just stating that such effects like distortion or a high larynx are bad just because you think it sounds wrong is not a good outlook and im sure you can teach rasps and such safely. i know that SLS has it reasons why something like a high larynx isnt good for fully correct coordinations but any proof of this would just result in loggerheads of SLS backed vocal scientists vs somthing like Estill. only completely independabt research could throw up unbiased answers.

´´The argument comes into play when you quickly realize as a professional teacher and singer that the balanced larynx config. does not produce a sound that is applicable to a lot of contemporary styles of singing. You dont get an aggressive, amplified overtone & cut in the head voice, you dont get a sense of "aggresion" if your a rocker and you most certainly dont get any distortion effects.... Sure, train the balance to get isolated... then begin to build something that will make people stand up and shout. In the end you want to be able to calibrate between projected sounds and contracted sounds... you want the ability to sing either way. At TVS we train both configurations and encourage singers to learn how to calibrate for more twang or throttle back for more "hoot". Why would you not want to be able to do both?``

dude i dont know what SLS you have been exposed to but to say its not applicable to alot of contemporary styles of singing does make me wonder.

have a look at this SLS summer camp vid. theres quite a few styles.admittedly none of them raspy or distorted etc but we have already covered that one!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Va1I_xwOk

this is one of the points im trying to make is that it seems that laryngeal position is somewhat independant of being able to produce ´´ring`` or carrying and cutting power. though of course each laryngeal position will have its own dinstinctive affect on the over all ring, cut or projection thanks to the aspects that have all ready been covered-vocal tract and resonating space shaping, emphasising one formant and not another etc.

i agree about having a choice of laryngeal positions, but we already covered that when i talked about a floating larynx has the choice of going up or down. its doesnt have to be locked into one or the other.

sorry people i went way off topic there.....again but i just wanted to clarify some things

p.s if what ive written reads as jibberish blame my lack of sleep over the last couple of days ok :cool:

Thanks for your reply... decent points... I will add to it however, that I too have been to the SLS summer camp when I was working with TC-Helicon and what I saw was 90% young females interested in pop-idol singing. When they did the big evening concert every single genre' was represented except rock and metal... that was my introduction to SLS biased against rock/metal... whats up with that? I just find it particularly noticeable that they dont have any serious metal, head voice singers in their client roster, they dont demonstrate it in their camps and yet, the rock genre' is offering some of the most innovative and challenging vocals in the world... I have to tell ya (Centre) it influences my attitude :/

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Centre: Yep. Its amazing stuff.

I know some people that have learned this technique. Basically, the pharyngeal resonance space is taken out of the equation, so that the resonance which remains is produced by 2nd-formant tuning, and is used very flexibly to select which overtone to emphasize.

This guy is very accomplished. What an interesting sound, eh?

I scoped his performance. Very fun to watch.

Wow! I have never heard singing like that before... thanks centre for finding this... this is GREAT stuff!!! And no, Im not going to argue with you on how the hell he's doing that, I dont have a clue... seems Steve does.

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Centre thanx for the clip...cool :)

But your configuration are far from what Patti is using. maybe that have changed since...

This is a clip of me singing in the mode Overdrive(CVT) :

http://www.box.net/shared/6x87ftv47v

Notice how much power and volume Overdrive has! (I'm standing in another room!)

To my knowledge you'll never achieve that by using the speech level aproach - and it's a clean note..

Nice note Martin... would you say that was a bridged tone?... you must of had some tilt on that? Tell me how you would describe that configuration? Do you feel your larynx contract a bit?

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^^ I'm curious - is his voice "healthy"? I guess it is since he's had such a long career and sounded pretty good after many years? Also, does he just not have any vibrato or is suppressing it?

miss pk: Steven's voice has had issues from time to time. According to his ENT, he had a problem with some blood vessels in his vocal bands that required laser surgery to repair. However, according to the ENT, he can do things now that he could never do before.

As to 'healthy' or not, I have to think about that for a while. I have not yet learned to discern when an artist is using distortion deliberately, or accidentally. Others may have an opinion to offer here.

As to vibrato, I will look at that spectragraphically for you. Very many of the tones he sings here are 'straight'.

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This is throat singing, it's quite fun :P

I've been playing around with it myself, allthough I'm not nearly as good as the singer in the clip yet :>

Your tongue will be your key player. If you want to I can write a small article on how to achieve those sounds.

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I dont think its that unhealthy. Its probably more healthy than it was when he started out. He's not really straining and exerting his throat much more than a falsetto, from what I can hear? He's got somewhat tight closure and allows his chords to buzz away, which gives more sound than if he was straining until his neck veins were about to explode. he also seems to just let his note blow in the wind and go pretty much whereever it wants to go to feel comfortable.

I mentally compare it to playing the guitar.

If you're right handed, the left hand will press the string down on the neck to lengthen or shorten it, and the right hand strums the string.

The vocal chords are the left hand, the breathing is the right, strumming hand.

If you press down well with the left hand, the string will vibrate well and produce a clear note, whether you strum softly or harder.

If your chords aren't coming together well, i.e. if you're not pressing the string down hard enough, the string is going to buzz tonelessly. Since finding out how to close the chords can be tricky, most of us when learning to sing, press the string down too loose, and when the note coming out isn't strong enough, we strum harder and harder, without realizing its never going to work unless we press the string firmly against the neck first, so that it can buzz and vibrate well.

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the notes dont sound so straight that theres excess tension to me. as far as ive heard vibrato is a natural ocillation that happens when notes are held and that it requires more tension on the cords to keep a tone straight for a long time, though i dont know that the extra tension is damaging or bad.

i think he (steven tyler) sounds cool though im sometimes a little suspicious when a singer has to get really louder to produce high notes, especially when a distortion is produced aswell but if you can learn to do those belted sounds and distortion safely then its not a problem and i think he would have learnt to do that stuff safley as he has studied voice.

Matt, to me he is not producing a twang, or very little of one (but thats by my definition of twang-see anastacia vid) his singing voice sounds like a natural extension of his speaking voice to me. it doesnt sound affected or massively altered than the qualities of his speaking voice.

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``Thanks for your reply... decent points... I will add to it however, that I too have been to the SLS summer camp when I was working with TC-Helicon and what I saw was 90% young females interested in pop-idol singing. When they did the big evening concert every single genre' was represented except rock and metal... that was my introduction to SLS biased against rock/metal... whats up with that? I just find it particularly noticeable that they dont have any serious metal, head voice singers in their client roster, they dont demonstrate it in their camps and yet, the rock genre' is offering some of the most innovative and challenging vocals in the world... I have to tell ya (Centre) it influences my attitude ´´

yeah i see your point Robert. maybe they should get Ozzy up on stage LOL :lol:

there are some rockers on the client list ( Ozzy, Vince Neil, Paul Stanley, lead singer from Linkin Park etc) but i see what you mean. i think its shame because i do feel that some of the principles can be applied to just about all singing including metal. especially the clean melodic stuff such as tate, labrie.

oh well if i ever make something of myself maybe i´ll be the first melodic, power, prog vocalist on the list :P

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``Thanks for your reply... decent points... I will add to it however, that I too have been to the SLS summer camp when I was working with TC-Helicon and what I saw was 90% young females interested in pop-idol singing. When they did the big evening concert every single genre' was represented except rock and metal... that was my introduction to SLS biased against rock/metal... whats up with that? I just find it particularly noticeable that they dont have any serious metal, head voice singers in their client roster, they dont demonstrate it in their camps and yet, the rock genre' is offering some of the most innovative and challenging vocals in the world... I have to tell ya (Centre) it influences my attitude ´´

yeah i see your point Robert. maybe they should get Ozzy up on stage LOL :lol:

there are some rockers on the client list ( Ozzy, Vince Neil, Paul Stanley, lead singer from Linkin Park etc) but i see what you mean. i think its shame because i do feel that some of the principles can be applied to just about all singing including metal. especially the clean melodic stuff such as tate, labrie.

oh well if i ever make something of myself maybe i´ll be the first melodic, power, prog vocalist on the list :P

Centre, these artists you point out are great entertainers... but are they really great vocalists? Ok, maybe Vince Neil had light and bright overtones on the first album back in the day and Ozzy had some nice "nasally" things happening... Stanley and Park , all good belters... ok, but Im talking about rock singers that bridge and connect and are really doing the hard stuff; DT, Fates Warning, QR, Journey, Jeff Scott Soto, Halford, etc... the belters are great, we love them... but Im really talking about the guys with serious range... with adducted head tones and bridging... thats what I think is the "elite" in the rock genre'... No offense because I love the old BS stuff, but if Ozzy is the best they can offer then its like,... "big whoop"? And lets be honest here... I know from my own practice... celebrity singers like this rarely hunker-down and train extensively with any one coach because they are on the move a lot... these guys come in for a tune-up , for 3-4 lessons at the most about once a year... and then voice teachers claim, "Joe Lynn Turner" trained with me... its not SLS... we all do it... I love working with these artists, but the ones that really train... and honestly have the best vocal chops... even more then a lot of the stars... are my guys that play regionally and come in 90 days a year and really get in shape...

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Nice note Martin... would you say that was a bridged tone?... you must of had some tilt on that? Tell me how you would describe that configuration? Do you feel your larynx contract a bit?

Tank you,

Well as you know I don't use the term bridging since I use CVT. But I know what you mean so no it was not a bridged tone according to your aproach. I'm actually still not quite sure what you define as "tilt" but if it's about tilting of the thyroid cartilage then yes. I guess the best way I could describe it without technical explanations...is like a contolled "yell" with an open feeling...you can sing in Overdrive up to C5 so I'm close to the limit in the clip. Yes I feel a slight contraction...NOT to be confused with the constrictors!

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hi

A lowered larynx is not a fixed position. The movements are subtle, but if ever you are trying to hold your larynx in one place, you are creating tension. We breathe and support in bel canto technique, in a way that favors natural larynx position, but then as the natural impulse of the larynx is to raise with the pitch, we institute a process that allows it to remain low, but never force it to do so. We breathe lower in the belly.

We achieve squillo thorough freeing up all the parts of the apparatus, and using a very refined economy of means that allows only minimal escape of air, about the same amount you use to speak.

Wet your finger like a sailor, put it in front of your mouth and say something. Feel a whoosh? Nope. That is as much air as you need to sing. The variations will be subtle though high notes and louder notes use a smidge more, the main difference comes because you open the throat.

I am talking classical technique. Sinatra and Crosby had it down, too. Best,

Roberta

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hi

A lowered larynx is not a fixed position. The movements are subtle, but if ever you are trying to hold your larynx in one place, you are creating tension. We breathe and support in bel canto technique, in a way that favors natural larynx position, but then as the natural impulse of the larynx is to raise with the pitch, we institute a process that allows it to remain low, but never force it to do so. We breathe lower in the belly.

We achieve squillo thorough freeing up all the parts of the apparatus, and using a very refined economy of means that allows only minimal escape of air, about the same amount you use to speak.

Wet your finger like a sailor, put it in front of your mouth and say something. Feel a whoosh? Nope. That is as much air as you need to sing. The variations will be subtle though high notes and louder notes use a smidge more, the main difference comes because you open the throat.

I am talking classical technique. Sinatra and Crosby had it down, too. Best,

Roberta

Roberta, just about all of what you said is the exact same sentiment of SLS (speech level singing) which isnt a surprise really as its basis are the original bel canto techniques. how they teach a neutral/natural/floating larynx postion is through exercises that deactivate and free up the elevator muscles, along with vowel shaping (same as bel canto) rather than through a breath and support based principle.

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Robert, i used Ozzy more as a bit of a laugh rather than as an example of the very best of metal vocalists :P

also talking of vince neil, im not a ultra big Crue fan, i have a few bits and pieces but i watched some of one of their live shows, i think it was carnival of sins live and the guy never sounded better.

in terms of the SLS client list, its true there are no real headvoice heavy rock/metal singers to speak of though to be honest some of the ranges sung by some gospel/soul type singers isnt much different. i can see how the client list might leave some impression, but im more inclined to the thinking of SLS as a technique rather than particular to any one style as SLS states. i think it could be helpful to most genres even if its just for a foundation of learning to have vocal freedom without tensions and connecting through the bridges etc before you go off and add techniques like growls or distortions and such if you want to. i mean i could be wrong but i doubt your teacher David Kyle had a specific heavy metal/rock singers programe but he still managed to use his classical basis to help those singers. its the same thing. the singer from the band Kamelot spent 2 years studying opera but ended up singing prog power metal so i guess it goes to show that some of the technical foundations taught are indeed helpful to most singing.

i agree with you that probably alot of those celebrity singers are only 3-4 lesson clients but still end up on the list. i seem to remember reading that Geoff Tate only had 6 lessons with David kyle and yet has an influence of the infamy of the maestro. the other thing is that some people are lucky enough to only need a few lessons to brush up rather than needing extensive technical help (lucky gits!!! lol) the flip side of the celebrity client list is when the reverse happens and the teacher has to sign a contract to agree not to let anyone know they have had lessons because the star singer doesnt want it known theyve needed or wanted lessons! i have heard of such happenings from some teachers lol

anyway all i can say dude is that i sing alot of the QR, DT stuff and have found SLS most helpful.

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Martin, i could be wrong but i thought that the more chest engadged, belted type sounds got thier quality through their being less thyroid cartilage tilt, thus engaging a thicker, shorter cord mass?

i cant remember off hand if there is a pitch limit to curbing. i would be interested in hearing the same thing in curbing mode.

its interesting you say you feel some contraction. it would seem that some pharyngeal resonace overtone,harmonic,formant shaping is going on aswell here. maybe this phenomenon is independant not only to larynx position but vocal mode aswell though i think through listening that there is more presence of it in "bridged" type sounds but who knows?

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Centre,

Well about the tilt. The only knowledge I have about that is that the cricothyroid is responsible for lengthening the vocal cords (raising the pitch). And when the cricothyroid contracts it tilts the thyroid cartilage. So basically when you sing higher pithes the thyroid cartilage tilts. maybe someone could elaporate on that??

I would try to record something similar in curbing soon. (and no there is no limit in curbing).

About the contraction - CVT is conducting a research about the vocal modes. And it seems as the different modes have different contractions or narrowing above the vocal cords. They also have noticed that the "metal" or "chest" has more to do with theese contractions than at the vocal cord level. The vocal cords seems to vibrate the same in all four vocal modes!

So that the "chest" is caused by the amount of TA activation is probably only half the truth or maybe not at all since the vocal cords seems to vibrate in the same way no matter what vocal mode you use! - Very interesting Imo!

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