ring,squillo,cut...twang,pharyngeal,cry

[Steven Fraser]

Centre,

Well about the tilt. The only knowledge I have about that is that the cricothyroid is responsible for lengthening the vocal cords (raising the pitch). And when the cricothyroid contracts it tilts the thyroid cartilage. So basically when you sing higher pitches the thyroid cartilage tilts. maybe someone could elaborate on that??

Martin H: The relationship of pitch, activity of the cricothyroid, and tilt of the thyroid cartilege is as you say, though I find that word order sometimes helps the clarity of understanding of what is cause, and what is effect.

Here is the best way that I know how to put the same idea into context:

When you think of a note, right before you start the note the intrinsic muscles of the larynx position the cartileges to produce the note the way you have conceptualized it. Amongst the vocology geeks, this is 'Prephonatory tuning'.

For notes of higher pitch, the Cricothyroid muscle positions the thyroid cartilege with more forward tilt than for lower pitches, as a result of the thought.

So, basically when you are singing higher pitches, the thyroid cartilege has been tilted further to produce them.

However, this description does not indicate the level of activity in the CT and the TA muscles during phonation. Since they both pull on the thyroid cartilege, they can be in isometric antagonism... they can fight each other. When that happens, the tissues of the vocal bands will get stiffer, closed quotient will rise, glottal waveform changes shape, and the resulting tone quality is different.

[Steven Fraser]

Also, does he just not have any vibrato or is suppressing it?

I finally got around to looking at the vibrato. He has some in the lower notes of the phrases, but there are many which have none.

[CentreOfTheUniverse]

Martin, that is interesting. i would have theorized that the degree of narrowing and possibly where the narrowing is occuring would effect the "edge" or "cut" to the sound but not the sound of vocal weight, in the sense of whether it sounds more chesty or heady. i thought one idea to do with the amount of chest v head quality has to do with the vertical depth/mass of cord being employed (and where the depth/mass is coming togeather), independantly of the stretch coming from the tilt.

the CVT stuff sounds really intersting, keep us up to date on that one dude!

[CentreOfTheUniverse]

hey all,

here is another vid where the student displays what i would call a more pharyngeal voice rather than twang

Steve i would be interested in knowing what formants are being used here.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oRog7y4wD1o

[Martin H]

In CVT:

Curbing or Neutral with a lot of twang (Fake Edge/Belting) :)

[CentreOfTheUniverse]

yeah i believe the "ring" or "cut" sound thats being produced is known as Edge in SLS/SS terminology. im just calling it pharyngeal as i think that is one of the more universal/classical terms for it! just like how some people associate it more with twang. though as i have said i think some versions of twang sound different. it does sound very similar if not the same in the high ranges mind.

as you have said though, maybe its just a version or degree of twang. if so its one that has no tilt of the epiglottis but there does feel like there maybe some contraction of the pharynx.

[Martin H]

I just want to add that the modes like Curbing or Neutral are seperate from twang! You can twang in both modes or not if you like (it's all about where you narrow).

Centre,

I guess what you call pharyngeal is just a little twang....but don't confuse it with the modes! Every mode can be twanged if you like! :)

[Steven Fraser]

hey all,

here is another vid where the student displays what i would call a more pharyngeal voice rather than twang

Steve i would be interested in knowing what formants are being used here.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oRog7y4wD1o

Centre: Up above the passaggio, he does 2nd formant tuning, somewhat like an operatic tenor, but with only a small amount of singer's formant (low, but present, peak 6).

Here is the spectragraph of the A natural at 3:02 in the video, the sustained one. See peak #3. Its the tallest. For that vowel, that 3rd harmonic of the A is sitting right below the 2nd formant (as evidenced by the spectral energy hump from noise just to the right of it). This positioning of the formant makes the vocal tract inertive, which reduces the level of effort (and increases the sense of ease) at the laryngeal level.

Because he is not singing with a fully-lowered larynx, his tone does not display full chiaroscurro. However, this is a quite powerful tone, and if sung into a mic, will make the rafters ring.

I hope that's what you were looking for as input from me.:P

[CentreOfTheUniverse]

cheers Steve, nice one :)

[bb]

ok - I know this is an old thread, but I was looking for more examples of Steve's analyses and I realized I could see what happens when I try to do what this guy does at about 3:02. Maybe this will help someone else later down the line, too.

here's the wav of me (felt like my voice was drying out a little) - boy, that 3rd harmonic sounds like a whistle. I didn't notice it until I eq'ed him to see what that thing sounded like, then it's like almost all I can hear, even on my voice.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19046930/bwahbwah_a_jan_21_2011_16bit.wav

spectrograph of me AND of James Kelly using my settings on the spectrograph are below - 1 second averaging

I was thinking it was cool I was getting *anything* in the "singer's formant" area at all, but obviously the strength of tone is not there. I wonder if it's the fact that the harmonics 4-6 are so much lower is a reflection of that - would that be due to the mixing of the "chest voice" in?

Me:

James Kelly

[Steven Fraser]

ok - I know this is an old thread, but I was looking for more examples of Steve's analyses and I realized I could see what happens when I try to do what this guy does at about 3:02. Maybe this will help someone else later down the line, too.

here's the wav of me (felt like my voice was drying out a little) - boy, that 3rd harmonic sounds like a whistle. I didn't notice it until I eq'ed him to see what that thing sounded like, then it's like almost all I can hear, even on my voice.

bb: not everybody can hear this sort of thing. IMO, its very useful that your sense of hearing can pick this up.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19046930/bwahbwah_a_jan_21_2011_16bit.wav

I was thinking it was cool I was getting *anything* in the "singer's formant" area at all, but obviously the strength of tone is not there. I wonder if it's the fact that the harmonics 4-6 are so much lower is a reflection of that - would that be due to the mixing of the "chest voice" in?

bb: For this note, harmonics 4-6 are not in the frequency range where I would expect a singers formant, unless you are a bass. For a higher voice, I would expect the singers's formant to roughly center on the two vertical red lines, which are 2800 and 3200 Hz, so harmonics 6-8 for this note.

The presence of the singer's formant is independent of 'chest voice' or 'head voice' considerations. Those have more correllation with the vowel and range than they do with singer's formant.

I hope this helps.

[bb]

thanks for the insight!

I didn't mean to imply that the 4-6th would be in the singer's formant. I was referring to them as part of wondering out loud if that was where his power was coming from relative to mine (in terms of what is captured in the spectrogram). My 4-6th harmonics are about 30-35db lower than the first 3, while his are only about 20db lower.

and thanks for the info on singer's formant relative to head/chest voice. I didn't know that. So, trying to be "stronger" with the chest or apply more air shouldn't help the boost in the singer's formant region.

I've been sitting here watching the spectrogram, playing with mouth positions, etc., trying to see a boost in the singer's formant region. Haven't hit on anything that seemed to really boost it yet.