Trying "Caught somewhere in time" by Iron Maiden

[Olem]

Hi, there!

Got some time off and tried to sing this Maiden song. I recorded it with a backing track i found on youtube. As always critique are much appreciated. Take care.

https://www.box.com/s/bbmzocoszq7mj2ze2fwq

[Jugulator]

I like the raspy parts in this songs. The main problem is pitch I think. There are many pitchy places.

[ronws]

I can't hear what Igor is talking about. I hear scoops up to pitch. Mostly where you are using rasp. On the higher stuff without rasp, it sounded dead-on to me. Neat backing track. It sounds like a backing track from youtube. Scratchy and fuzzy, compared to the less hissy quality of your vocal track. Hard to match those up.

But I liked it, Olem. Neat rasp, though I don't have as much affection for it as does Igor.

[Olem]

Thanx for your replies, Igor and Ron! Igor: Yeah, pitch is something i have always had a problem with, but at least i have tried to be consistent here, pitchy all the way, so i hope there are some kind of rhythm. Ron: I hope that is the case because the chorus where the parts i focused mostly. Someone else wants to chime in and make comments about this and other stuff?

[Olem]

I didn´t like the Youtube clip very much, i found it disturbingly slow in pace so i recorded it again and now with the original music in the background, trying to remove Bruce´s vocals as much as possible. I made another few changes too. Please make comments and suggest what could be improved. Thanx in advance/ Ola

https://www.box.com/s/opjn01zsdnapdi70l0cj

[ronws]

Even though I could hear traces of the original vocal (most center-panned vocals cannot remove it all since a lot of vocals have stereo echos) I liked the quality of this recording more. Because the whole timbral quality matched better. And, to me, it made your voice sound more in tune, even if you sang it the same way or just copied your vocal track to a different karaoke track.

Good job, Olem.

[Olem]

Thanx, Ron. I sang it once again and changed the parts i thought sounded better. I can sing the whole song in one piece if it wasn´t for the scream in the chorus - there i crack most often and need to retake.

[Tony4552]

Brilliant mate, If you want any other Maiden backers give me a shout

[ronws]

Thanx, Ron. I sang it once again and changed the parts i thought sounded better. I can sing the whole song in one piece if it wasn´t for the scream in the chorus - there i crack most often and need to retake.

I won't tell anyone, if you won't tell anyone. It will be our secret. :D

[Olem]

Thanx alot, Tony! I would love to have some of your Iron Maiden backers, which ones do you have? Ron: Hehe, ok, i promise.

[Keith]

I woulda commented on this a while ago, but my computer logged off the site and I had to find my password again lol.

Lots of minor pitchy areas. I think mostly due to the fact that the right notes are in a bad spot for you to use as a ramp for the higher notes. Overall tone is good, a little squeezed, but better than your others. This is a hard song! It's still too high for me even. So gratz on having the stones to do it. One of my favorates. With a little work on pitch and the openess of your middle notes, this will be a masterpiece.

[Olem]

Hi, Keith, thanx for your reply. So you mean i initiate a phrase in a wrong pitch but end up at the right? Could you give me some examples where i am way off pitch? I will listen more closely to the song and try it again and see if i can be on pitch the next time.

[Tony4552]

It aint a case of What Ive got rather more of what do you want lol

[Will-Sing-For-Supper]

Hi, Keith, thanx for your reply. So you mean i initiate a phrase in a wrong pitch but end up at the right? Could you give me some examples where i am way off pitch? I will listen more closely to the song and try it again and see if i can be on pitch the next time.

I have Sony Music Unlimited, so I synched up your clip with it to hear you and Bruce sing in unison. What I heard was Bruce in my left ear and you in my right ear on headphone. I made a slight delay to differentiate your voice from his. The first pitch problem that caught my attention was when you ended the phrase at about the 2 minute 11 second mark. The bottom note at the end of the phrase was off-pitch and weak. I suggest some practice with breath support exercises.

The main issue in my mind is that you might not yet have the power and projection to do this particular song justice. I was a Maiden fan in the early 80s. I saw them in concert more than once during that period. I had their first few albums. Bruce Dickinson sings basically operatic tenor with full power, projection, and ringing vibrato. In fact, he's got all that in spades, although he claims that he never had formal training. My friend, you don't appear to be quite at that level. Bruce either was born with a perfect set of pipes, or he trained for a few hours every day, or someone taught him hyper glottal compression at an early age. Either way, he has a huge advantage on us mere mortals.

All of your "demon" phrases are extra light, meaning no power/projection/resonance, etc. I know that there is a term for that kind of voice, but if it doesn't come naturally, then you have to learn it. You won't have a clue as to how you sound unless you record and listen over and over. Study Bruce and Ronnie James Dio. Analyze that specific part of their voices when they do it. Really listen to all of that fullness, that power that is in perfect control, using all of the best techniques. Now, mimic it. Singing is simply controlled shouting, even when the phrase is whispered. If you can control the way you speak, you can control the way you shout, and if you do that then you are singing. You will need to develop your power along with your control, use a lot of glottal compression to hit those notes with operatic power, projection, and vibrato.

Having said that, my hat is off to you. That is a tough song. If you pursue this specific style, then you should reach your goals in time. Do this style for an hour and a half a day. Try some Dio or Judas Priest. Practice makes perfect! :cool:

[Olem]

It aint a case of What Ive got rather more of what do you want lol

Wow, That´s sounds great, Tony, maybe i will ask a favour of you in the future :)

[Olem]

Yes, you are right. The "demon phrases" is like the witch voice or pharyngeal voice right? Yeah, i will practise this kind of voice mainly because i have some interests in maybe starting to learn opera. More easy to find such a teacher. Great, tips, Will-sing-for-supper and to listen to Bruce´s voice in one ear and your own in the other really sounds like a great way to spot your weaknesses. Thanx alot.

[Olem]

Well, i have made another version, focusing on nailing pitch. I hope i am doing somewhat better. I think i started most phrases in the verses on a D when i think Bruce starts on an E, also i think i have a tendency of skipping notes when i "climb". For example when i started on an E, i then tend to skip the F and go right on to the G. So, what i think i must practise more is scales. Well, what do you think of this version?

https://www.box.com/s/wwciszpfv2vc1tofpqrn

[ronws]

According to Bruce's own words, he is self-taught. His girlfriend, just after he got out of school, was singing in a choir and had a book on singing called "How to Sing." So, he read that and a few other books. Now, Bruce could have been lying, just to mess with people. But no one knows if he actually took voice lessons.

[Olem]

Well, i am quite sure he is not lying. Bruce has always been very fit, not a typical rock star with a self-destructive behaviour. He is a strong/fit guy which has helped him singing in this physical demanding style all these years. He has had alot of "practise" over the years from all the numerous shows on the road - he is alot better singer nowadays than in the beginning. Bruce is also an intelligent guy so i am sure he could obtain things he read in a book. Alot of "practise/singing" non-destructive behaviour, physically strong, talent (he could sing high notes from the beginning), intelligence - all these factors contributed.

[ronws]

Well, i am quite sure he is not lying. Bruce has always been very fit, not a typical rock star with a self-destructive behaviour. He is a strong/fit guy which has helped him singing in this physical demanding style all these years. He has had alot of "practise" over the years from all the numerous shows on the road - he is alot better singer nowadays than in the beginning. Bruce is also an intelligent guy so i am sure he could obtain things he read in a book. Alot of "practise/singing" non-destructive behaviour, physically strong, talent (he could sing high notes from the beginning), intelligence - all these factors contributed.

And I agree, Olem, I don't think Bruce is lying and he has never been the type to lie. He is more likely to speak his mind. Like when he was giving Ozzy Osbourne grief for using a teleprompter, in the middle of a tour, and Sharon really angry with him.

Yet others here will tell you straight up, he is lying. Because there just can't be any way possible that he could possibly sing like that without years of lessons with some secret fabulous coach, drilling him the 10,000 repititions of some scales.

Just can't possibly happen.

Again, I am not saying that Bruce is lying. And while some may not have specifically said Bruce is lying, some have said or intimated that Ronnie James Dio lied when he said he never had voice lessons. Paraphrased, "there's just now way he could do what he did without expert instruction."

I'm not an expert, I just read interviews of these singers. And they could certainly be lying. Evidently, there is something to be gained in lying about one's history in singing. Except, of course, for Anne Wilson, Pat Benetar, Kip Winger, Dee Snider, Ronnie Milsap, Marie Osmond, Geoff Tate, Ron Keel, John Bush, to name a few. They all admit openly in interviews the extent of their vocal training and instruction. So, they must be the only ones telling the truth because they mentioned having some vocal training.

[Will-Sing-For-Supper]

I agree 100%. I have learned a lot more by reading books and training myself than I ever learned as a kid in churches and schools. In fact, I have never had a single one-on-one voice lesson. Bruce read that book, "How To Sing". For all we know, it was a bel canto book. Regardless, if it was a good book, and he was a great student, he could do it, just like the way people today can get Robert Lunte's DVD's and learn on their own. If that's self-taught, then I am self-taught. Let's not forget nature. When it comes to voices, no two are the same. If you are born with the right mouth, tongue, throat, sinuses, pharynx, larynx, lungs, diaphragm, core muscles, etc. then you could be born with the potential for a great voice. Most are not fortunate enough to be that gifted physically. You guys talked about his fitness and lifestyle, which plays a big part in how a person's voice sounds, and how long it will stay strong and healthy.