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Not enough emphasis on practise

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Sun
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Hi guys,

I feel there is not enough emphasis on consistent practise, compared to that of "quick fixes" and "adjustments" to the vocal tract setup. I used to be very into CVT, but I'm not really currently. F.ex. the "follow the rules, techniques should work instantly" - mentality is just so wrong unless you already have the foundation where all you need are adjustments. There needs to be more emphasis on the importance of putting in the hours.

I've tried so much things which were wrong, even accessed my entire range in full voice but it was not a proper phonation, and right now all I'm doing is a set of exercises every day consistently as prescribed by my teacher. I put in 1 hour every day and am seeing slow but very consistent results. Primarily with the NG semi occluded, and I just find that when I do my darn NG properly everything falls into place. If the phonation is correct, then that also means support is correct, throat config is correct. I don't have to think about vowel mods because everything falls into place when the phonation is correct, if the vowel is wrong - the phonation stops being correct and I can feel it very clearly.

You can try to twang and smile however much you want but if you haven't put in the hours then you're not gonna sing with world-class technique just because you imagine your sound projecting through your rectum. It seems like a lot of people are spinning their wheels looking for a quick fix, making multiple threads on the same thing etc.

So in conclusion my advice is simply, have a few meat and potato exercises that you do consistently to grow your voice, make sure a qualified teacher has verified that you are doing it correctly and there's not that much to say really. Singing is after all a physical activity which takes a lot of practise.

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^Mvike what exercises :P I like Ng a lot especially if applied to an open vowel.

That depends on what I need. It's my teacher that tailor the exercises. Always with a focus and comfort and control. The exercises aren't fancier than anything you have already heard of, but it's the knowledge of why and how you do it that makes the difference imo. Sorry for not being of more help :)

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you know folks i'll go on record as saying that even if you aren't doing the exercises 100% correct, you still will obtain residual benefit.....

when i first started my training and i was ill informed, i did exercises to the very top of my range very loudly, very strongly, never even aware of transitioning. i really believed i gained strength during that time.

in fact, if you were to go running up your voice to the top without transitioning, and personally think it would more beneficial than transitioning into an airy falsetto.

now that i said that..... i'm prepared to get an onslaught of those who think i'm nuts...lol!!!!

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I agree with you Bob, it's just that without some guidance it's very hard to go up all "chesty" as you call it, correctly. You will probably condition your voice, but you might also shout and tear it too much depending on how often you do it, how hard you pound it etc.

What you call narrow I call head voice, but it's all M1. Well, at least as high as I practice :P

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you know folks i'll go on record as saying that even if you aren't doing the exercises 100% correct, you still will obtain residual benefit.....

Bob I absolutely agree. This was the point I was trying to make in that other thread.

I have found this to be true with everything I've ever practiced in my life. As long as you're kinda on the mark in the beginning, repetition combined with tweaking, over a long period of time, will absolutely get you to your destination. Maybe or maybe not slower than if you tried to do the exercises perfectly the first time. I don't know that. But what I do know is that doing exercises imperfectly does not take you backwards in your progress unless you're doing them very wrong. A little wrong is not an issue, you will still move forward, maybe slower, but it's still worth doing, better than not practicing.

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the more you work on your voice, slowly but surely (at least from my experience) you start to develop....develop in ways that you absolutely could not have anticipated ..nor pre-understood from the beginning.

it's like wisdom.....it comes along after the time when you needed it....lol!!!

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Indeed. How would you get perfect without training for it? And if you were perfect, there would be no need for training, except upkeep :P

I'm not saying doing exercises in any way else than 100% is not beneficial, I've been singing for a year and still not 100% on any exercises I would guess. I'm just saying that exercises made for a purpose, for your voice at this particular point in time done with focus is what has really helped me. Then after (for me) 1 week to about 1 month I'm starting to realize what my teacher told me about the exercise and I start to understand which sensation to aim for, often a sensation I never even knew existed beforehand.

Cheers!

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Mivke: often a sensation I never even knew existed beforehand.

This is so true, I always had some doubt about these siren exercises because my voice just "roofed out" so early, but now my voice is gliding up higher and higher via sensations I never knew existed before. As my comfort zone expands higher notes feel like the lowers used to.

Currently a C5 seems very far away but in time when I get there I'm sure it will be via sensations I haven't felt before, at which point it all will make more sense.

I also think "spinning your wheels" is a part of the learning journey, it's ultimately what gave me the mental leverage to start doing this and set me on the right path. Trust me I have successfully spun wheels for a year, even though I've learned a lot.

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I also think "spinning your wheels" is a part of the learning journey, it's ultimately what gave me the mental leverage to start doing this and set me on the right path. Trust me I have successfully spun wheels for a year, even though I've learned a lot.

I think this is true, as well. I have been singing for a long time, good and bad. And so, singing for a long time is not what makes me a good singer, or not. It's how I sing that matters. And that's why I say that, not to discount exercises and practice, just to caution against mindless repetition. One of my favorite descriptions about Enrico Caruso was that no matter what he was doing, warm-up, exercises, repertoire, his focus was intense.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys,

I feel there is not enough emphasis on consistent practise, compared to that of "quick fixes" and "adjustments" to the vocal tract setup. I used to be very into CVT, but I'm not really currently. F.ex. the "follow the rules, techniques should work instantly" - mentality is just so wrong unless you already have the foundation where all you need are adjustments. There needs to be more emphasis on the importance of putting in the hours.

I've tried so much things which were wrong, even accessed my entire range in full voice but it was not a proper phonation, and right now all I'm doing is a set of exercises every day consistently as prescribed by my teacher. I put in 1 hour every day and am seeing slow but very consistent results. Primarily with the NG semi occluded, and I just find that when I do my darn NG properly everything falls into place. If the phonation is correct, then that also means support is correct, throat config is correct. I don't have to think about vowel mods because everything falls into place when the phonation is correct, if the vowel is wrong - the phonation stops being correct and I can feel it very clearly.

You can try to twang and smile however much you want but if you haven't put in the hours then you're not gonna sing with world-class technique just because you imagine your sound projecting through your rectum. It seems like a lot of people are spinning their wheels looking for a quick fix, making multiple threads on the same thing etc.

So in conclusion my advice is simply, have a few meat and potato exercises that you do consistently to grow your voice, make sure a qualified teacher has verified that you are doing it correctly and there's not that much to say really. Singing is after all a physical activity which takes a lot of practise.

sun, i just re-read this post.....are you kidding us? man, we talk about working at this all the time.

how are you going to get better (more often than not very gradually better) if you don't put in the time?

plus as felipe showed, all these sacrifices need to be made. in my store, i now have a humidifier running during the day.... the customers get a kick out of it because sometimes it sounds like i have an aquarium in the place...lol!!!

you gotta chug down the water, watch what you eat, pay attention (so important) to how you speak, how much you speak. then there's allergies, reflux issues, sleep, exercise, stress management......

when i go into these karaoke competitions, i get a chair and sit by myself so i don't have to worry about talking loudly to be heard in these loud places and wearing myself out. some think i'm anti-social or this and that...lol!!!

there's a lot to it.

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Bob this wasn't really aimed at you or the "advice givers" of the forum, you're right all you guys say is practise practise.

This was adviced more towards the people who only have consistency in making new threads, looking for a quick fix (I know what it's like, they have good intent), trying to go past their abilities to quickly.

Time flies, this thread is almost a month old, I have another 20 hours of practise under my belt now. Before you know it this thread is a year old, to anyone reading, where will you be then?

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My real response. We ain't even talking about singing....we talkin' bout practise.

He's sort of got a point. Practicing is so important but it means nothing if you don't perform.

Speaking of which, Jay, you should try performing sometime.

:lol:

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Jay with all due respect, you are one of the persons that I think would benefit from giving some really serious thought about this IF you really are interested on development as the number of postings you make show.

How many times we all told you to get sessions and work with a objective way? You are near the 6 months mark. By this time, at least some tangible results you would have...

I will change my cake recipe: orientation and discipline.

I dont mean harm and hope you use this instead of ignoring once more.

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He's sort of got a point. Practicing is so important but it means nothing if you don't perform.

Speaking of which, Jay, you should try performing sometime.

:lol:

Dang. I thought I was doing ok for a CVT lover by singing lots of songs at home rather than just obsessively centering my modes all day ;-) Now I find out I have to sing *in front of people* too? There's a local pub with karaoke but it's at 9pm and I'm usually tired by then...

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you know folks i'll go on record as saying that even if you aren't doing the exercises 100% correct, you still will obtain residual benefit.....

when i first started my training and i was ill informed, i did exercises to the very top of my range very loudly, very strongly, never even aware of transitioning. i really believed i gained strength during that time.

in fact, if you were to go running up your voice to the top without transitioning, and personally think it would more beneficial than transitioning into an airy falsetto.

now that i said that..... i'm prepared to get an onslaught of those who think i'm nuts...lol!!!!

I agree 100% because that is exactly what happened for me. I did it that way myself. I have wondered if someone went through all of that in a similar fashion. :cool:

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Dang. I thought I was doing ok for a CVT lover by singing lots of songs at home rather than just obsessively centering my modes all day ;-) Now I find out I have to sing *in front of people* too? There's a local pub with karaoke but it's at 9pm and I'm usually tired by then...

:lol:

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