Genuine Mix Weak As $%#*

[Guest]

Hi everyone, along with my ascending octave sirens and semi occluded 5 tone scales and some songs I have been working on getting some more adduction, power, volume in the mix.

Yesterday I did a descending slide on doo-oh and open to OH after the passaggio which to my ears was fully connected straight through the mix and it sounded medium volume to me.

But when I actually played it back the volume was EXTREMELY low and weak. Although I was in a mix it was more like a falsetto/mix hybrid. Why is it that it sounds louder in my head? I feel like the 3 problems causing that area to be weak are

1. lack of muscular development, my lowervoice is used to going up high not the other way around

2. was tired so lacked compression/adduction

3.oo vowel has the lowest frequencies (last time i checked)

Now I occasionally have "big boomy headtones" but it was saddening/surprising to hear myself sound so "weak" because a lot of the songs I like require power in that range.

What is the best way to go about progress now that I genuinely know that area is very weak/breathy? And yes most songs I want to sing are in the C4-C5 and I can "yell" most of those notes in chest but because I want artistic diversity and freedom I'm building the genuine mix. Something strange to note is that if I sing a twangy nyey-nyey-nyey something my teacher (female soprano uses) the frequencies amplify like crazy... and I sound more connected but witchier.

What are some ways to develop adduction, loudness, and overall support in the C4-C5 area where it's a "tug of war" between registers. It feels like to get get my "oos" connected I have to sacrifice power, which is a something that I need in my singing. My feelings is that getting into the hybrid register is just the first step... leaning into to it.. making it useable is the difficult part.

Thanks in advanced.

- JayMC

[VideoHere]

jay,

i'll suggest, but whether you do it or not is your call.....

simply cry just like a baby cries...no specific notes, no melody, no scale, just freakin' cry....

3-5 minutes of loud crying

take a nice low breath, engage your support, and cry on the supported breath.

don't look to transition into a f#&*ing thing..keep it all in your natural voice

be sure every single cry is preceded by a breath.

you will be amazed how this will help you

sounds ...... neeah, meeah, geeah, mommy, all of it.....

focus the breath tension into the mask area...don't let it drop into the throat.

just let it fly, get bratty, get angry, don't hold back!

try this for a couple of months and let me know if you don't start getting a stronger voice.

[D.Starr]

Bob is right. I naturally cry when I sing and this helps keep me connected too. I have a tendency to flip into falsetto to protect myself from shouting or grinding my cords, which I need to stop doing, I need to lean into the voice more.

I've been adding cry into more and more singing and it strengthened my head voice more. It sounds extremely bratty but it's helping a lot. You kinda have to cry and then hold it back a bit more, aim for where Bob said and you should be fine.

Practice blending back into chest but make sure you keep either a style of cry/fry to glide back into it better.

I'd post a few examples but I'm currently away from home at the moment. May post some when I get in tomorrow.

GOOD LUCK!

[Felipe Carvalho]

Genuine mix...

One single low note, one single vowel done well, and you will realise that all this non sense is a huge waste of time and effort. Even if you could "mix" what you are trying to mix, the quality would be at most the quality you get on the weakest "mix" component.

Instruction and trainning. From your samples your mind should not even be on power and quality on this area, fundaments are far from working.

[Danielformica]

I agree with Felipe if you can't sing all vowels in the range up to c4 beautifully and confidently. why go higher? Fundamentals are key when it comes to singing all the other little tricks and exercise will just keep leading you back to more problems. Build your voice like you would a house. Start with a good solid foundation built well. If you don't you are going to have to tear down that house and rebuild. And lately I am seeing that in a lot if voices that come to me and ask for help.

[Consumingfire39]

Genuine mix...

One single low note, one single vowel done well, and you will realise that all this non sense is a huge waste of time and effort. Even if you could "mix" what you are trying to mix, the quality would be at most the quality you get on the weakest "mix" component.

Instruction and trainning. From your samples your mind should not even be on power and quality on this area, fundaments are far from working.

I don't understand this "mix" talk either. It is almost talked about like it is its own thing.

[Owen Korzec]

IMO the mixed voice, if we're talking an even blend of everything about chest and head, is a nearly impossible ideal. Achieving mix outside the tessitura takes lots of time and development. You have to train to get gradually closer and closer to a balanced mix, starting from chest and head and working your way inwards from both directions by learning to make chest voice headier and head voice chestier. Both in terms of the resonance and musculature. And you start this process on lower, more comfortable pitches (early bridging) and work your way up to late bridging.

All the while it will never really be perfect. You are mostly trying to fool your audience by the sound.

That's just my experience with it. Someone feel free to prove me wrong.

By the way this is defining chest as TA dominant phonation and head as CT dominant phonation. Not just talking about resonance.

[Guest]

Very weak oo, here's a sample. Then "oh" vowel from the bottom up which feels more comfortable to me. Thanks for the response Owen/Videohere. I will get a loud powerful oo eventually.

[Danielformica]

Jay record a sample of you doing a 5 tone or 3 tone scale(1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 or 1,3,5,3,1) on all 5 vowels(ee,eh,oh ah,oo. starting on c3(cbelow middle c) and going to just a middle C or maybe E above that(e4). In a nice clear speaking volume.

Then we can make a clear assessment. And answer questions to what a voice needs or doesn't.

[ronws]

A couple of things, Jay.

First, you need to sing like you expect someone on the other side of the room to hear you. This whisper stuff just ain't making it, 'ight?

Seriously, start singing. Start phonating at something above a quiet phone conversation. People clear their throats louder than what you presented in this thread.

Second, you cannot hear yourself as others hear you. Live with it. So, what it sounds like to you is not what it sounds like to others. I am just as much a case-in-point of that as I think you are. Get over it.

However, I predict that you will NOT do as Daniel as asked and will continue this endless word game while being complimentary but never actually singing anything.

Worst case, you will drop this thread and start another one.

I'm just asking you to finish a thought, finish a song. Even a kindergarten child will get all the way through "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star."

That probably sounds mean and confrontational and I may get banned for being mean. I just want to hear you sing one whole song, even something like that.

If I get canned, it's been nice knowing you guys.

Peace out ....

[Owen Korzec]

Jay record a sample of you doing a 5 tone or 3 tone scale(1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 or 1,3,5,3,1) on all 5 vowels(ee,eh,oh ah,oo. starting on c3(cbelow middle c) and going to just a middle C or maybe E above that(e4). In a nice clear speaking volume.

Then we can make a clear assessment. And answer questions to what a voice needs or doesn't.

I totally second this suggestion. Let's hear some chest voice, Jay.

Might I tweak this a little bit? Do it a little louder than speaking volume. Sing like you are trying to get someone's attention.

In fact, besides that, what I personally want to hear you do jay, is some serious belting. Essentially shouting on pitch. Just in the A3-E4 range for now, no need to go super high. Just something to get you out of the quiet voice trap. I think this is something we once recommended to MDEW, whose environment as a child led him to be very quiet about everything he does with his voice. He ended up coming out of his shell and I recall him sending a file that sounded much louder than what you are doing, Jay. So, I would like to hear you try to sing the dynamic level fortissismo, meaning roughly "louder than loud" :cool: And whatever happens, happens. I just think it's important for every singer to develop the freedom and strength to be able to go there. Everything you do will benefit from having that headroom, that ability to get really loud.

Also, if you do not have a training space that allows you the luxury to be this loud, you need to train elsewhere.

This is another reason I recommend performing. You will soon discover there is a certain requirement of how loud you will have to sing in certain situations.

And obviously, compare the volume of your voice to other singers.

I'm not saying it's bad to be a light r&b kind of singer. But you may need some more volume, and a little more strength behind that light style.

We're trying to help you out and we can if you help us figure out how loud you can get. Because it sounds like you are not training loud enough for performance, and we don't want you to fall into the trap of going to perform and then struggling to be heard. I fell in that trap during my SLS training and I would try to push more and my voice would crack and flip and do all this awful stuff, all because my training was done at a volume as if I didn't want anyone to hear me. I wasn't preparing myself to sing loud enough in the high range to be heard clearly. I don't want you to have to go through those problems Jay.

Edit: just listened to your file, that very end of it seems like it might be a good, usable volume. Try to get your lower head voice and upper chest voice to match that volume.

[Danielformica]

The thing is I don't want you to belt in that range. You need to sing not flip, not be scared just sing in a solid confident tone. This is fairly simple to find just say ah that's it not falsetto or airy voice just loud enough to be a solid tone. This is how you build the voice. Start there and make your way up. If you start to get to loud at c4 or flip. You got work to do.